"We can't afford to have conference affiliation governed by emotion."

[businesslawyer]

i bet hes focused on figuring out this move to the b12 $$ wise. just my guess. what do u think hes got on his mind right now? beaches? cake? american idol?

I'm confused. You elected to quote me but your response has nothing to do with the quote. I did not say the FSU President was not focused on this issue at the moment. I was, however, laughing at the fact for you criticizing him from not assuming what you assume the facts will be in the future as opposed to the actual facts he has on the ground.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The Big 12 apparently has the option to take the deal back to market if they add two teams. ESPN would only have right of first refusal, but unlike the ACC situation, would not have an exclusive.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8848569

 

[nelsonmuntz]

1. Dan already retracted his point that you're congratulating him on and acknowledged that he was thinking about reimbursement for bowl game travel, not all travel. Of course, that required Dan admitting he was wrong, which seems to be a concept so foreign to you that it would explain why you ignore even him correcting himself.

2. I do make condescending posts. But they are only rarely from ignorance. And I can admit when I'm wrong. Unlike certain others.

I think Dan may have been right the first time. i have to find a source on that.

As for travel, please provide me a list of all the schools that turned down an invitation to a major conference because of "travel" concerns. (Hint: It is a very, very, very short list)

 

[Dann]

I'm confused. You elected to quote me but your response has nothing to do with the quote. I did not say the FSU President was not focused on this issue at the moment. I was, however, laughing at the fact for you criticizing him from not assuming what you assume the facts will be in the future as opposed to the actual facts he has on the ground.

what are the facts? do u think u know them? no one outside of a couple college pres/ad's, the new b12 commish and espn know the facts. thats why all of these CR boards are wild and fun. ppl like u who need 110% facts for everything just won't understand.

everyone who talks CR somehwere takes a stance and defends it. some are wild and some are easy going and could happen. to each his own. i don't agree with all of nelsons stuff, but i take it and respond and enjoy it all. whats your position? that nothing is going to change and why?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

what are the facts? do u think u know them? no one outside of a couple college pres/ad's, the new b12 commish and espn know the facts. thats why all of these CR boards are wild and fun. ppl like u who need 110% facts for everything just won't understand.

everyone who talks CR somehwere takes a stance and defends it. some are wild and some are easy going and could happen. to each his own. i don't agree with all of nelsons stuff, but i take it and respond and enjoy it all. whats your position? that nothing is going to change and why?

BLawyer is one of the many that don't like to take positions but prefer to just attack others.

I think I put him down for no one is leaving the ACC.

 

[businesslawyer]

what are the facts? do u think u know them? no one outside of a couple college pres/ad's, the new b12 commish and espn know the facts. thats why all of these CR boards are wild and fun. ppl like u who need 110% facts for everything just won't understand.

everyone who talks CR somehwere takes a stance and defends it. some are wild and some are easy going and could happen. to each his own. i don't agree with all of nelsons stuff, but i take it and respond and enjoy it all. whats your position? that nothing is going to change and why?

LMAO. I wish I was technologically capable enough to quote both your and Waylon's points together.

Because not everyone needs to make an immediate prediction on everything, whether you have enough information to rationally do so or not. Some people prefer not to open their mouths unless they have something worth sharing.

But to each their own.

 

[The Funster]

BLawyer is one of the many that don't like to take positions but prefer to just attack others.

I think I put him down for no one is leaving the ACC.

LOL. Somehow I can picture nelson, esconced at his computer, surrounded by bits of paper. Most of those bits of paper contain illegible, cryptic writings. Well, at least they would be cryptic to us but to nelson they all make perfect sense. Oh yes, perfect sense.

 

[Dann]

LMAO. I wish I was technologically capable enough to quote both your and Waylon's points together.

Because not everyone needs to make an immediate prediction on everything, whether you have enough information to rationally do so or not. Some people prefer not to open their mouths unless they have something worth sharing.

But to each their own.

i will not say another word top you until i read the next 241 in the fall. good day.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

LMAO. I wish I was technologically capable enough to quote both your and Waylon's points together.

Because not everyone needs to make an immediate prediction on everything, whether you have enough information to rationally do so or not. Some people prefer not to open their mouths unless they have something worth sharing.

But to each their own.

Like I said.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think Dan may have been right the first time. i have to find a source on that.

As for travel, please provide me a list of all the schools that turned down an invitation to a major conference because of "travel" concerns. (Hint: It is a very, very, very short list)

1. I agree with your earlier point that travel costs will not drive decisions at this level.

2. Do you think the Big XII's current contract is undervalued in the market? I would think that, relative to their competition, they have to be pleased with where they are.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

1. I agree with your earlier point that travel costs will not drive decisions at this level.

2. Do you think the Big XII's current contract is undervalued in the market? I would think that, relative to their competition, they have to be pleased with where they are.

The Big 12 contract seems a bit rich to me actually, even in this market. Now, if they added FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech and someone else, I would say it may be undervalued. I think only two leagues are currently undervalued: the ACC and MWC. We don't know what the Big East contract will be and we don't even know what the Big East will be, so there is no way to assess that deal. The MWC signed the worst deal in college sports history. It baffles me how that league continues to add teams with that horrific deal.

I think the ACC deserves $20MM+ a year based on the other deals signed, relative market size and attractiveness, ratings, etc., and subjectively, I would have assumed that the ACC was worth more than the Big 12 on a per team basis. Swofford was rumored to be preparing for arbitration to get $21MM/year/school, and then abruptly dropped the whole thing, settling out at $17MM. It is worth noting that the ACC may not have increased its take on a per game basis at all. They simply added more inventory to the contract.

EDIT: MATH IN THIS POST WAS A BLOODBATH. TOTALLY screwed UP. RUSHED AT END BECAUSE HAD TO GET BACK TO WORK. WILL FIX IT LATER.

THAT is why FSU is so angry.

The contract has nothing to do with "what is the ACC worth", and everything to do with when the ACC signed the deal and what they can do about it now.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think the last point is by far the most interesting one. There were four potential reasons to add Pitt and Syracuse: (i) they were "defensive" additions, in advance of being raided; (ii) to give the ACC a chance to renegotiate its TV contract with ESPN; (iii) to kill off the Big East as a competitor; and (iv) to strengthen ACC basketball, especially in the Northeast.

Well, I never thought it was the first because you could always have added two Big East schools down the road, and know it (at least in hindsite) isn't the second because more money per capita was not produced. And my guess is that FSU and Clemson, as southern football schools, couldn't give a damn about the third or fourth. So they have now had their football diluted for no reason at all.

That is enough that I could see turning on Swofford. I still am not convinced it is enough to drive them to the Big XII, but time will tell. I will say that the "freeloaders" comment on Duke, Wake and BC may have been the first thing I've ever seen a "superpower" football program say that would make you ask why they don't band together only with superpowers and form a national premier league of 16 to 32 teams. But I don't know whether this is going there or not.

 

[freescooter]

I agree that the travel costs thing is not going to have any effect. I'd be pretty surprised if FSU in fact buses to many games. Maybe Georgia Tech which is about 5 hours away. Miami is 8-9 hours from Tallahassee (I've done it). Clemson is 7. Chapel Hill, Durham et al are at least 10 and obviously the further north you go bussing becomes even less feasible. And while I don't know their travel plans for sure, my guess would be that they fly everywhere except maybe Atlanta.

I also don't think FSU has any interest in whether the basketball side of the house is strong weak or somewhere in between. Nor do they care about the Big East...to the extent they think about it they'd probably be happy to see it sink, but I doubt they tink much about it...I do think that they may well have thought that the additions would be an excuse to re-open the ESPN deal, and that is why they went along. That they only earned a marginal benefit and ended up with a couple of also ran football schools for their efforts probably does tick them off. Florida State was one of the prime movers behind the first big East raid, and it really didn't work out for them. they ended up getting displaced in their own league by VaTech, who they really didn't even want. Can't imagine they see this one as having any better results.