We can solve Problem #1, we can't solve Problem #2

[CL82]

Our quickest path to return to success is having KO get it right.

But that is as big a risk or even moreso than asking a new coach to immediately come in and be Mick Cronin.

We are in waters we haven't navigated since the early 80s

How did this Cronin thing get started? I feel like this has your fingerprints on it.

August, there was no sign this season that KO can get this done. It's time.

 

[Marat]

So which would be the better option if we can't have both ?

A) Keep KO and play in the new Big East ?

B) Let him go, find new coach, and rebuild in the AAC ?

 

[3rdbass]

So which would be the better option if we can't have both ?

A) Keep KO and play in the new Big East ?

B) Let him go, find new coach, and rebuild in the AAC ?

I don't answer hypothetical questions at this time.

 

[kobe]

1) Everybody except maybe 6-8 teams in the country would like to have a coach of the quality of Mick Cronin. Why doesnt every one have one?
Oh right. Because saying "Mick Cronin is successful" waves the magic wand and means the next guy in here will be as good as Mick Cronin.
It doesnt work that way. Wish it did. When you hire a new coach you take a calculated risk that the coach is better than the one you are replacing. It doesnt always work that way though.

2) You ever look at Cronins 1st 4 seasons at Cincinnati?

11–19
13–19
18–14
19–16

I cant wait to see what this board does when KO's replacement goes 4 years without a NCAA appearance. and is 7 games under 500 for that stretch.

Cinci was patient with him and it paid off.

1) Everybody except maybe 6-8 teams in the country would like to have a coach of the quality of Mick Cronin. Why doesnt every one have one?
Oh right. Because saying "Mick Cronin is successful" waves the magic wand and means the next guy in here will be as good as Mick Cronin.
It doesnt work that way. Wish it did. When you hire a new coach you take a calculated risk that the coach is better than the one you are replacing. It doesnt always work that way though.

2) You ever look at Cronins 1st 4 seasons at Cincinnati?

11–19
13–19
18–14
19–16

I cant wait to see what this board does when KO's replacement goes 4 years without a NCAA appearance. and is 7 games under 500 for that stretch.

Cinci was patient with him and it paid off.

To be fair it was a much different rebuild. Cincinnati was just 1 season into the Big East, arguably as the league was hitting its peak, and Cronin was left with 1 scholarship player, an NAIA transfer, a football player (Conor Barwin who is now in the NFL) and a walk-on. He was going to have to get some time to fix it up. I can tell you after that 19-16 season, the fanbase was probably close to 50/50 that he should go. Then just two years later, Cincinnati sat at 15-7 (5-4) with losses to Presbyterian, Marshall, Rutgers and St. Johns and the talk REALLY heated up. I was firmly in the "he's gotta go" camp. But then somehow they rallied and finished that season 11-4, made the BE finals and the S16. Rebuilds are a roller coaster of emotions. I don't recommend them.

 

[August_West]

August, there was no sign this season that KO can get this done. It's time.

I can't refute that in good faith.

 

[August_West]

To be fair it was a much different rebuild. Cincinnati was just 1 season into the Big East, arguably as the league was hitting its peak, and Cronin was left with 1 scholarship player, an NAIA transfer, a football player (Conor Barwin who is now in the NFL) and a walk-on. He was going to have to get some time to fix it up. I can tell you after that 19-16 season, the fanbase was probably close to 50/50 that he should go. Then just two years later, Cincinnati sat at 15-7 (5-4) with losses to Presbyterian, Marshall, Rutgers and St. Johns and the talk REALLY heated up. I was firmly in the "he's gotta go" camp. But then somehow they rallied and finished that season 11-4, made the BE finals and the S16. Rebuilds are a roller coaster of emotions. I don't recommend them.

Yup and it only worked because of patience.

 

[Lefty2one]

1) Everybody except maybe 6-8 teams in the country would like to have a coach of the quality of Mick Cronin. Why doesnt every one have one?
Oh right. Because saying "Mick Cronin is successful" waves the magic wand and means the next guy in here will be as good as Mick Cronin.
It doesnt work that way. Wish it did. When you hire a new coach you take a calculated risk that the coach is better than the one you are replacing. It doesnt always work that way though.

2) You ever look at Cronins 1st 4 seasons at Cincinnati?

11–19
13–19
18–14
19–16

I cant wait to see what this board does when KO's replacement goes 4 years without a NCAA appearance. and is 7 games under 500 for that stretch.

Cinci was patient with him and it paid off.

You have to look beyond wins and losses in a situation like this. First of all, Cronin's first four years were in the midst of a lethal stretch for the Big East. The conference was a killer then. Secondly, his teams trended upwards. I'm guessing he didn't have several of his best-rated recruits transfer out or have rumors swirling about his level of commitment to the program. I'd also guess that his teams didn't rank in the 340s when it came to various offensive statistics or make tons of questionable decisions with his in-game strategy.

KO is going in the opposite direction; he's trending downwards and each season is uglier than the prior. What KO has done the last two years is nearing a crime against the sport. There is no time for more patience. The personnel and conference issues are a convenient excuse. He has been a dreadful coach.

 

[kemba]

But the thing is, that's the permanent reality for Cincinnati. It's not going to get better for them. How do we feel if that's still the case 5 years into the new guy's tenure?

That was what Cincy did in the Big East too. It's not a conference thing its a Cincy thing

 

[Stainmaster]

Our quickest path to return to success is having KO get it right.

But that is as big a risk or even moreso than asking a new coach to immediately come in and be Mick Cronin.

We are in waters we haven't navigated since the early 80s

He values Grant's more than getting it right. So that's not an option.

 

[Stainmaster]

We sold our basketball soul in search of football glory and it's been a massive failure.

Lou Perkins couldn't have predicted it would unfold exactly like this, but "football glory" was/is the only shot at not being left behind when the P5 splits. They're not dragging the Big East along with them.

 

[tzznandrew]

The program is effectively dead as a powerhouse as long as we're in the AAC. A new coach can make us respectable again but we'll be one of those schools that makes a Sweet 16 run once or twice a decade. Our ceiling is still higher than Cincy's but not by a ton: we'll produce a first-round pick once every 8-10 years by finding a diamond in the rough, we'll have nice regular seasons beating up on terrible AAC teams and then we'll lose on the first weekend of the tournament. That's our ceiling for as long as we reside in the AAC. I will bet any amount of money that we'll never sniff the Final Four in this conference. Hell, I'll be surprised if any program in this bastard of a conference ever makes it that far.

The other elephant in the room is that we were not a 'final destination' program anymore. If a young coach rebuilds the program they'll leave for the right ACC or Big Ten opening.

We sold our basketball soul in search of football glory and it's been a massive failure. Our two "money sport" programs are a laughing stock.

Yeah, I don't buy this. The right coach can make this school a consistent Top 25 team and a frequent Top 10 team.

What are the "right" B10 and ACC schools? Money isn't everything to a smart coach. They going to leave for UMiami? Boston College? Virginia Tech? Most of the "right schools" already have good coaches, which is why they're the "right schools." Duke, UNC, Michigan State, Michigan... But we were afraid we were going to lose Jim Calhoun to South Carolina in the late 1990s!

Get a good coach. Win. Both of those are possible in our league. We won a title out of it. Hope Memphis and Temple get their crap together. Hope Houston and SMU keep their crap together. Hope Marshall stays at WSU. But more important: win. Win, and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[dennismenace]

That's all true. But realize that it is a "4 year job" to even sniff that success. Because those schools successes are built around lesser ranked players staying around for 4 years and meshing. And it takes a while even to get the right group to establish that formula. Once you do, it kind of feeds on itself in that you start cycling the "right" lower ranked players in the underclass groomed to take the place of the seniors, rinse repeat. It's most likely the model we will have to follow in the future, in this conference especially. But again.....that is at minimum a 3-4 year build up if everything goes perfectly to start. Does this fan base have the patience for that? I dunno. We are (and Im not saying its wrong) screaming for the neck of a Coach who won a title 4 years ago after only 2 bad seasons.
Whoever we get from here is going to have more bad seasons than that before we become something again. But if we see progress we will have to accept it. The bar has now been changed forever on how we can measure success.
No ONE, Not even Larry Brown (well maybe only Larry Brown) is coming in here and putting us in the tourney next year.

All of this may be true but what galls most fans is that even if the talent wasn't that great they almost never looked like they knew what they were doing on the floor and constant lackadaisical play (failure to hustle). Just about everyone we played looked better than Uconn in this regard even if many of them did not have the talent. There were some individual bright spots but other than a few fast breaks they never looked liked they jelled as a team. If we have more "teams" like that I don't think that the fans will tolerate it and vote with their feet or other support. This team looked clueless most of the time. Very, very sad. Major changes needed starting at the top. I don't see how this is supposed to change with the present coaching staff; it is not the players. They cannot all have low bb IQ and unteachable charachters.

 

[auror]

So which would be the better option if we can't have both ?

A) Keep KO and play in the new Big East ?

B) Let him go, find new coach, and rebuild in the AAC ?

Before this year I would have said A). But we've reached the point where the evidence suggests it should be B).

 

[August_West]

All of this may be true but what galls most fans is that even if the talent wasn't that great they almost never looked like they knew what they were doing on the floor and constant lackadaisical play (failure to hustle). Just about everyone we played looked better than Uconn in this regard even if many of them did not have the talent. There were some individual bright spots but other than a few fast breaks they never looked liked they jelled as a team. If we have more "teams" like that I don't think that the fans will tolerate it and vote with their feet or other support. This team looked clueless most of the time. Very, very sad. Major changes needed starting at the top. I don't see how this is supposed to change with the present coaching staff; it is not the players. They cannot all have low bb IQ and unteachable charachters.

I mean I can't argue with that.
Ten toes in we definitely were not this season.

 

[dennismenace]

How does that end the thread?

Because it would be a "Happy Ending"

 

[RichZ]

I can end this thread with one name..Mick Cronin.


/endthread

How does that end the thread?

Can't post after vomiting on the keyboard?

 

[AdamaNation]

That’s why I feel he may be one of the few who would want to and feel he owes it to us all to dig us out. At least for his part. But as has been stated to know end. The conference is mediocre purgatory. Baseball is the money sport and Hockey isn’t even in the aac. What about that ad Dave!!!

 

[UConn990411]

The AAC is a legitimate issue. But I’m yet to hear anyone who brings this up explain how Cincy and SMU have managed to consistently make the tourney out of this conference.

There are plenty of obstacles that Ollie has to overcome that did not exist when UConn was in the Big East. None of those obstacles justify the current state of the program.

 

[UConnSwag11]

The program is effectively dead as a powerhouse as long as we're in the AAC. A new coach can make us respectable again but we'll be one of those schools that makes a Sweet 16 run once or twice a decade. Our ceiling is still higher than Cincy's but not by a ton: we'll produce a first-round pick once every 8-10 years by finding a diamond in the rough, we'll have nice regular seasons beating up on terrible AAC teams and then we'll lose on the first weekend of the tournament. That's our ceiling for as long as we reside in the AAC. I will bet any amount of money that we'll never sniff the Final Four in this conference. Hell, I'll be surprised if any program in this bastard of a conference ever makes it that far.

The other elephant in the room is that we were not a 'final destination' program anymore. If a young coach rebuilds the program they'll leave for the right ACC or Big Ten opening.

We sold our basketball soul in search of football glory and it's been a massive failure. Our two "money sport" programs are a laughing stock.

No, we’re dead as a powerhouse as long as we keep losing. It’s not that difficult to understand. You win and good things happen.

 

[SubbaBub]

Cincinnati and WSU are in the Top 10. I'm not ready to buy that we can't recruit here. KO did not capitalize on his NC in terms of recruiting guys who could play. He either picked the wrong guy or was unable to get the right guys. That is a fact and the fact that may cost him his job.

 

[weyuo]

The AAC is a legitimate issue. But I’m yet to hear anyone who brings this up explain how Cincy and SMU have managed to consistently make the tourney out of this conference.

There are plenty of obstacles that Ollie has to overcome that did not exist when UConn was in the Big East. None of those obstacles justify the current state of the program.

I don't agree that the AAC is a legitimate issue. The AAC gets an automatic bid just as much as the B1G, The ACC, The SEC, The Big12, Pac 12, ect. UConn schedules pretty competitive out of conference. The only problem is they haven't been winning. No one here would have any complaints about the AAC if UConn men mirrored the women in dominating their conference. It ain't the conference. It's the coaching.

 

[auggie22]

The right coach can recruit anyone to play anywhere. With the right coach, top 20 kids would be willing to play at UConn.
(Sad thing is, a while back I thought we had that guy.)

Jay Wright has built a juggernaut with top 150 guys, not top 20. Put a system in place and manage to it and we will be better than fine. We won’t care about our league tourney anymore, that is true; but we can have a challenging OOC and play in NYC a few times a year, plus regularly look forward to March... it won’t be what we once had but it will be more than enough for me.

 

[FlakeyFoont]

UConn should be the class of this conference and be shredding the conference every year, just like the women's team does. The pedigree of the men's program should have been preserved, despite conference realignment, just the way Geno did it with the women. No tailspin there, no decline, no falling off a cliff. The best women high school players still want to be Huskies four years into the AAC. That should have been Ollie's legacy and 2014 should have been the jumping off point for his magic reign. Instead, we have this wretched mess.

 

[Mr. French]

Cincinnati and WSU are in the Top 10. I'm not ready to buy that we can't recruit here. KO did not capitalize on his NC in terms of recruiting guys who could play. He either picked the wrong guy or was unable to get the right guys. That is a fact and the fact that may cost him his job.

This is very true.

Similar to my long winded rant in the other thread.

He’s not going to get the chance most likely, and deservedly so, but I think some form of picking the wrong players, managing the roster and/or not getting the right guys who can do what he needs is why he’s been so awful lately. Not because he doesn’t know basketball.

Something isn’t working with the guys he’s brought in, and that’s on him. It’s correctable but he won’t and doesn’t deserve to get the time to fix it here.

 

[Robertelamin]

The AAC is a legitimate issue. But I’m yet to hear anyone who brings this up explain how Cincy and SMU have managed to consistently make the tourney out of this conference.

There are plenty of obstacles that Ollie has to overcome that did not exist when UConn was in the Big East. None of those obstacles justify the current state of the program.

It's a loser mentality. Honestly I'm surprised how many people treat this program like it's UMass-Lowell after a few poor years.