WBB NCAA Regional Attendance Drops

[Charliebball]

Women's basketball regional attendance at 20-year low

 

[Plebe]

Women's basketball regional attendance at 20-year low

I would hate to see the regionals format revert to host schools.

But the attendance figures for regionals, particularly at Lexington and OKC, were extremely disappointing. Did Notre Dame fans not want to make the trip to Lexington? Was that too far for them? And what happened to all the Baylor fans?

The Stockton regional I can more understand because Corvallis is not at all close to Stockton (and also Oregon State didn't reach the Elite 8).

 

[Charliebball]

I would hate to see the regionals format revert to host schools.

But the attendance figures for regionals, particularly at Lexington and OKC, were extremely disappointing. Did Notre Dame fans not want to make the trip to Lexington? Was that too far for them? And what happened to all the Baylor fans?

The Stockton regional I can more understand because Corvallis is not at all close to Stockton (and also Oregon State didn't reach the Elite 8).

Five hour drive from ND to Lexington, Four hours from Waco to OKC.........apparently too far for all but the most hardcore fans

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

They'll just have to put the regionals NEAR locations that historically support the game, and continue assigning schools to regions with location taken into consideration. It's not optimal, but it appears to be necessary.

• Northeast: UConn's fan base covers Bridgeport, The Casino, Worcester, NYC, or Albany.
• Southeast: South Carolina fans can swing to Myrtle Beach, Charlotte, or Charleston (a bit small, but at least it would be full). Charlotte would get some of the Tobacco Road folks, as well.
• Midwest: Notre Dame and other midwest schools' fan bases can all cover Indianapolis, Chicago, or Cincinnati.
  • Lexington just isn't a good choice; it's on the far fringe like Chicago, yet doesn't have the draw that Chicago would.
• West: Stockton. Need we say any more than that? SO many great locations to choose from that are near PacXX schools AND major population centers with strong basketball support, and they chose Stockton. Frankly, that fairly screams something-that-I-can't-mention-without-being-censored.

Just have to be smart about it. Some schools will gripe, but...it's about supporting and growing the sport. Arenas that are <1/3 full don't help.

 

[UcMiami]

I think having the FF in Dallas screwed up the thinking on Baylor in OKC - fans all assumed they would get the important game 90 miles away so they made plans for that rather than getting the 300 miles to OKC. For Stockton it didn't help to have SC going far on the men's side - SC fans spending on BB all went to the men I suspect and it will mostly happen again. (Baylor too was in contention on the men's side.)

For all intents - KY and Bridgeport were home courts, though KY was a four seed. Bridgeport didn't need to do anything to sell out with Uconn guaranteed and I have no idea if they spent anything on marketing, KY is men's basketball country and I understand they did ZERO marketing, but with OSUe and ND there, they probably hoped for something better than they got - but 5+ hour travel times by car just aren't likely to get a huge crowd of team fans. Why with all the emphasis on distance and 2 pretty equal two seeds from the same conference, the committee chose to send Stanford away from Stockton and bring OSUw in is an absolute mystery to me - got to believe more Stanford fans would make the 1.5 hour drive to Stockton than were going to fly to Lexington. I am sure Stanford is happy where they were sent in hind sight but ... come on man!

The problem with predetermined host schools for regionals is what KY proved - if the host school isn't there, it is no help, though Nebraska sure came through big time a few years ago! Having regionals given to #1 seeds is a terrible idea I think because while Uconn travels pretty well, most teams don't and it is a big advantage to the #1 seed when you are trying to promote the idea of parity.

I do think you have to have one regional in the NE for the foreseeable future - you just can't ignore the Uconn crowd so Philly to Boston to Albany just has to be chosen. I think one somewhere from NC to Tallahassee within 150 miles of the coast with an exception for Nashville area makes sense - lots of potential high seed teams with decent to exceptional fan bases. And then ... I don't know - Oregon/Washington? Try Arizona/New Mexico? somewhere in TX? Somewhere around Chicago. I think you either need a great WCBB fan base like Nebraska had (thanks to the departed Yori) or maybe a destination city - Chicago, Atlanta, Orlando, SF, Seattle, Austin, New Orleans that provides the idea of a long weekend or week excursion with basketball games.

 

[triaddukefan]

They'll just have to put the regionals NEAR locations that historically support the game, and continue assigning schools to regions with location taken into consideration. It's not optimal, but it appears to be necessary.

• Northeast: UConn's fan base covers Bridgeport, The Casino, Worcester, NYC, or Albany.
• Southeast: South Carolina fans can swing to Myrtle Beach, Charlotte, or Charleston (a bit small, but at least it would be full). Charlotte would get some of the Tobacco Road folks, as well.
• Midwest: Notre Dame and other midwest schools' fan bases can all cover Indianapolis, Chicago, or Cincinnati.
  • Lexington just isn't a good choice; it's on the far fringe like Chicago, yet doesn't have the draw that Chicago would.
• West: Stockton. Need we say any more than that? SO many great locations to choose from that are near PacXX schools AND major population centers with strong basketball support, and they chose Stockton. Frankly, that fairly screams something-that-I-can't-mention-without-being-censored.

Just have to be smart about it. Some schools will gripe, but...it's about supporting and growing the sport. Arenas that are <1/3 full don't help.

About the Southeast. Myrtle Beach doesnt have a arena.... Charleston isnt a particulary easy city to get to....... Charlotte doesnt make any sense unless you are gonna have the regional at UNC-Charlotte's campus arena... which seats 9,100. Cant see them bidding for a Women's regional at the Spectrum Center when they already have NBA basketball..... the CIAA tourney... and on occasion... 1st and second round of the Men's NCAAs and ACC tourney. Which city in the southeast has supported women's basketball the best? Lets see..... you have a city that has a arena which held the biggest women's conference tournament for 17 years straight.... and has hosted WCBB regionals in 1999, 2007, 2008, and 2015. It trademarked the moniker Tournament Town.... Hint.... its not Charlotte or Raleigh

 

[Carnac]

Obviously their current model is not working. Back to the drawing board. No doubt a great amount of thought was put into this current format, but the fact that attendance is plummeting, demands that changes be made, and made quickly.

Perhaps it's time to think outside the box. Way outside the box. Try something that has never been tried before. There has to be a viable solution, they just have to find it.
If breaking even or making a modest profit is the bottom line, then decades of unprofitable and unsuccessful draconian thinking may have to give way to some concepts that are radical but economically feasible. What is the NCAA more interested in, fairness to the participating teams (especially the lower seeds), or increased attendance and a reasonable financial return?

Whatever solution they adopt, it must be fan friendly to the point that "the average fan" will travel to these sites to watch and support their teams. Snafus like the ticket fiasco in Bridgeport Connecticut, where the Maryland, UCLA and Oregon fans were precluded from buying tickets to the regional games because the UConn fan base bought up ALL the tickets 3 days BEFORE the brackets were announced. That can't happen. That's a turn off to large groups of ardent fans who were no doubt disappointed and felt devalued.

Perhaps having "regionals" host teams in that particular geographic region could be an answer. This wold mean a possible change in the current seeding system, but it would prevent teams (and their fans) from flying across country like Oregon and Syracuse did. It would also guarantee that two teams from that geographical area would be participating in the regional finals, almost guaranteeing a larger draw by their respective fan base. It can be assumed that fans will travel (drive) 400-600 miles to watch their team participate in regional action, but not 2,500 - 3,000 miles.

If the NFL can relax their 80+ year old approach and philosophy with respect to allowing a team in Las Vegas (the Raiders), then so can the NCAA.
If there's a will, there's a way. Perhaps playing all 4 regionals in Las Vegas is a viable solution. Fans would have the option of watching all 16 teams in action, not just 4. Las Vegas does have enough venues to accommodate the NCAA should they wish to explore that possibility.

Four men's Division 1 basketball conferences hold their post season tournaments in Las Vegas every year. The Mountain West - The PAC-12 - The West Coast Conference - The Western Athletic Conference. Some of them at the same time at different venues. There are a lot of things to do in Las Vegas besides gamble. They could try it for two years. If it did not work as planned or to their satisfaction, then they could implement plan B. One thing we do know, their current model is flawed and needs revision. Right now, fan attendance is in a serious free fall.

Thoughts???

 

[Charliebball]

About the Southeast. Myrtle Beach doesnt have a arena.... Charleston isnt a particulary easy city to get to.. Charlotte doesnt make any sense unless you are gonna have the regional at UNC-Charlotte's campus arena... which seats 9,100. Cant see them bidding for a Women's regional at the Spectrum Center when they already have NBA basketball..... the CIAA tourney... and on occasion... 1st and second round of the Men's NCAAs and ACC tourney. Which city in the southeast has supported women's basketball the best? Lets see..... you have a city that has a arena which held the biggest women's conference tournament for 17 years straight.... and has hosted WCBB regionals in 1999, 2007, 2008, and 2015. It trademarked the moniker Tournament Town.... Hint.... its not Charlotte or Raleigh

hmmmmmmmm..........the Dean Dome?

 

[SCspur]

I'm sure it could have been 4,000 Gamecocks fans alone in Lexington or 2,000 in OKC. Our fans travel very well and the Committee always makes a fuss about keeping ND and Baylor close to home instead of flying but complains when the attendance number are down. I really hope in the near future a city like Atlanta, Jacksonville, or Greensboro bids so the gamecock faithful can see their team play. How do you not reward a team that leads the nation in attendance and send them 3000 miles from home??? If the Gamecocks aren't in Lexington next year I will lose my mind!!! There should be no way the comittee send us to Spokane after this year and Sioux Falls.

 

[triaddukefan]

hmmmmmmmm.....the Dean Dome?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

They'll just have to put the regionals NEAR locations that historically support the game, and continue assigning schools to regions with location taken into consideration. It's not optimal, but it appears to be necessary.

• Northeast: UConn's fan base covers Bridgeport, The Casino, Worcester, NYC, or Albany.
• Southeast: South Carolina fans can swing to Myrtle Beach, Charlotte, or Charleston (a bit small, but at least it would be full). Charlotte would get some of the Tobacco Road folks, as well.
• Midwest: Notre Dame and other midwest schools' fan bases can all cover Indianapolis, Chicago, or Cincinnati.
  • Lexington just isn't a good choice; it's on the far fringe like Chicago, yet doesn't have the draw that Chicago would.
• West: Stockton. Need we say any more than that? SO many great locations to choose from that are near PacXX schools AND major population centers with strong basketball support, and they chose Stockton. Frankly, that fairly screams something-that-I-can't-mention-without-being-censored.

Just have to be smart about it. Some schools will gripe, but...it's about supporting and growing the sport. Arenas that are <1/3 full don't help.

I don't get the angst with Stockton - they bid on it. The nearest college is University of the Pacific - they won't be making any regional appearances in the near.

It is a general problem - most school's fans don't travel well (most schools don't have that many fans in the first place) and only locals are going to buy tix in advance. But in many cases, fans aren't interested in the "greater" world of WBB, they are just fans of their team. Saw this all the time as we traveled around following Rutgers. That's the fallicey (sp) of Lexington - if the Ky fans won't come to see another program, not too many folks are coming.

By the way - I doubt Chicago would be a good choice. I think the B1G women's tourney was a disaster there, or so I heard. Chicagoland is so spread out . . .

 

[itsasport]

I just drove 9 hours to see my mother-in-law.

 

[johnnyc]

I just drove 9 hours to see my mother-in-law.

Did you win?

 

[UcMiami]

About the Southeast. Myrtle Beach doesnt have a arena.... Charleston isnt a particulary easy city to get to.. Charlotte doesnt make any sense unless you are gonna have the regional at UNC-Charlotte's campus arena... which seats 9,100. Cant see them bidding for a Women's regional at the Spectrum Center when they already have NBA basketball..... the CIAA tourney... and on occasion... 1st and second round of the Men's NCAAs and ACC tourney. Which city in the southeast has supported women's basketball the best? Lets see..... you have a city that has a arena which held the biggest women's conference tournament for 17 years straight.... and has hosted WCBB regionals in 1999, 2007, 2008, and 2015. It trademarked the moniker Tournament Town.... Hint.... its not Charlotte or Raleigh

Has NC solved it's little problem with discrimination? If so, then yeah, why not.

Carnac - OKC and Lexington just proved regional sites in the 200-300 mile distance from teams homes do not draw:

Lexington, KY - Columbus OH 190 miles, South Bend 325 miles - attendance 3163, and the E8 2527 v. Stanford

OKC - Waco 290 miles - attendance 3499 and E8 3128 with a regional opponent only 650 miles away.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Has NC solved it's little problem with discrimination? If so, then yeah, why not.

Carnac - OKC and Lexington just proved regional sites in the 200-300 mile distance from teams homes do not draw:

They haven't resolved their issue. If they do (or the NCAA changes its mind) then it is an excellent choice. RU advanced to the final four from their before losing to UConn the next year. But a fun town to visit - nice restaurants, and used to the college crowds.

 

[Vowelguy]

I think the Las Vegas idea is terrible.
First of all, who wants to watch 8 wcbb games? Yes, most of the people on this board, but we are the minority. How many fans watch both games at the regionals?
And then there's the distance factor. The west has few fans. How many people are going to fly all the way out there?

Go with 2 sites, in the eastern half of the country - say New Orleans and Cleveland or something like that.

 

[triaddukefan]

Has NC solved it's little problem with discrimination? If so, then yeah, why not.

Carnac - OKC and Lexington just proved regional sites in the 200-300 mile distance from teams homes do not draw:

Lexington, KY - Columbus OH 190 miles, South Bend 325 miles - attendance 3163, and the E8 2527 v. Stanford

OKC - Waco 290 miles - attendance 3499 and E8 3128 with a regional opponent only 650 miles away.

A deal was reached tonight.... stay tuned.

Greensboro has had regionals 5 times.... record breaking attendance the first time..... solid attendance the other times. Raleigh has had regionals 3 times. The first Raleigh regional was fine in 2002.... Duke was there. In 2009 and 2013..... No NC team and attendance stunk.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

They'll just have to put the regionals NEAR locations that historically support the game, and continue assigning schools to regions with location taken into consideration. It's not optimal, but it appears to be necessary.

• Northeast: UConn's fan base covers Bridgeport, The Casino, Worcester, NYC, or Albany.
• Southeast: South Carolina fans can swing to Myrtle Beach, Charlotte, or Charleston (a bit small, but at least it would be full). Charlotte would get some of the Tobacco Road folks, as well.
• Midwest: Notre Dame and other midwest schools' fan bases can all cover Indianapolis, Chicago, or Cincinnati.
  • Lexington just isn't a good choice; it's on the far fringe like Chicago, yet doesn't have the draw that Chicago would.
• West: Stockton. Need we say any more than that? SO many great locations to choose from that are near PacXX schools AND major population centers with strong basketball support, and they chose Stockton. Frankly, that fairly screams something-that-I-can't-mention-without-being-censored.

Just have to be smart about it. Some schools will gripe, but...it's about supporting and growing the sport. Arenas that are <1/3 full don't help.

Columbia is actually closer to Charlotte than to Charleston. The NCAA has shot themselves in the attendance foot 3 of the last 4 years by sending the Gamecocks to the West Regional. We would have had thousands of fans in Lexington. We had close to 10,000 fans at MSG for the men's regional.

 

[MilfordHusky]

The Bridgeport Regionals were sold out, I believe well in advance. Scalpers and ticket agencies were getting at least 2x or 3x face value. The crowd size was just under 8,900. I think they could have sold 12,000 tickets.

Stockton made little sense to me. It's too far from anywhere meaningful, except possibly Stanford. Did any other cities make a bid? That's a key factor--if only 1 city bids, they get it. It's not like the Olympics, where they start with several bidders.

I'm saddened by the general drop--and I think UCMiami explains part of it--but I'm pleased by the UConn support. The place was rocking on Monday night.

 

[triaddukefan]

I meant to say..... Greensboro has had the regionals 4 times...... Ive attended 5 regionals total (2012 in raleigh) I dont care what 4 schools show up.... if its in my city.... Im going to the games to support WCBB I had plans to go to Raleigh in 2009 and 2013..... but the committee sent Duke out west and Maryland stayed east.

 

[itsasport]

Did you win?

I watch from the safety of the bleachers when my wife, sister-in-law and mother-in-law are on the field.

 

[huskeynut]

I guess Geno's "rant" nailed it. People are fans of their team and not WCBB in general. Go to many of the team boards and read how since their team lost, they no longer have any interest in watching the final four.

I am suprised that the Baylor contingent did not travel better. Same for ND.

As to Bridgeport, despite the complaints from MD which I get, if you place a regional tournament in the right place, you will sell out.

 

[oldude]

One additional element of WBB fans, certainly for UConn, and perhaps other teams as well is that the fan base is older and less inclined to travel long distances, stay over in a hotel, etc. in order to watch their team play.

My wife and I traveled 3 hrs to Bridgeport but were also able to combine the trip with a extended visit with my brother and his family. Without the proximity of family, I would have likely watched the games in my living room.

Fortunately, next year's regionals are 35 minutes away in Albany.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I traveled 4+ hours to Bridgeport and paid for 4 nights in a hotel in Greenwich. I would have seen my son's family in NYC on Sunday, but they were on vacation. Though I missed the family, I was happy to see HuskyNation. I'll see the family this weekend.

I've been to either 3 or 4 Regionals in Bridgeport. We've always had good crowds, but I'm not sure any year, other than 2017, was an absolute sell-out. Does anyone know with certainty?

 

[oldude]

I traveled 4+ hours to Bridgeport and paid for 4 nights in a hotel in Greenwich. I would have seen my son's family in NYC on Sunday, but they were on vacation. Though I missed the family, I was happy to see HuskyNation. I'll see the family this weekend.

I've been to either 3 or 4 Regionals in Bridgeport. We've always had good crowds, but I'm not sure any year, other than 2017, was an absolute sell-out. Does anyone know with certainty?

Don't know with certainty about last year in Bridgeport being a sellout, but having been there, it sure didn't look like there was an empty seat in the house.