Way too early POY watch | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Way too early POY watch

bbballfan23 said:
We're 2 short months in but here's what I'm seeing thus far. (2-3 was tough for me but so far I give nod to Lou)
1. Ionescu 21ppg, 7.8reb, 7.9ast, 47%FG, 55% 3pt, 89% FT (on what will be a top 5 Oregon team)
2. Lou 20.1ppg, 7.5reb, 3.9ast, 45% FG, 39% 3pt, 86% FT
3. Pheesa 18.9ppg, 10.9reb, 3.6ast, 59% FG, 64% FT (2-11 from 3)
4. Arike 22.9ppg, 6.4reb, 3.7ast, 46% FG, 27.5% 3pt, 74%FT
5. Anigwe 23.6ppg, 13.7reb, 0.7ast, 54%FG, 54% 3pt (limited attempts), 61%FT

I have Durr, Gustafson & McCowan outside top 5 for now.
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I agree it's way to early, but since you chose Anigwe over McCowan I'll simply point out that...

- McCowan is averaging 17 and 12.7 in just 26 minutes a game while learning to play with one of the better rebounders in the country.

- She takes 10 shots a game vs Anigwe's 17. Extrapolate with her shooting % (70%), adding no FTs, and she's at 25 pts/gm.

- There's little doubt she's the most effective rebounder in the country and she also has better or comparable numbers in all other major categories save 3 ptrs.

Way to early, but food for thought.
 
Shades said:
They gotta pick somebody. It’s kinda weird that they suddenly decided to love Ionescu this year when last season they barely recognized her in their ESPNW player of the week selections, even though she was racking up those triple doubles.

2017-2018 ESPNW Player of the Week
1. Asia Durr
2. Kelsey Mitchell
3. Shakayla Thomas
4. Loryn Goodwin
5. Chennedy Carter
6. Emily Clemens
7. Brittany McPhee
8. Jasmyne Harris
9. Asia Durr
10. Shakayla Thomas
11. Kristy Wallace
12. Brittany McPhee
13. Kitija Laksa
14. Katie Lou Samuelson
15. Sabrina Ionescu
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Wilson didn't get player of the week one time last year?
 
Sabrina with another triple double. Also, played until the 4-minute mark left in the game in a 115-69 victory :rolleyes:
 
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IWearShoes said:
I agree it's way to early, but since you chose Anigwe over McCowan I'll simply point out that...

- McCowan is averaging 17 and 12.7 in just 26 minutes a game while learning to play with one of the better rebounders in the country.

- She takes 10 shots a game vs Anigwe's 17. Extrapolate with her shooting % (70%), adding no FTs, and she's at 25 pts/gm.

- There's little doubt she's the most effective rebounder in the country and she also has better or comparable numbers in all other major categories save 3 ptrs.

Way to early, but food for thought.
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I’m with you, I believe McCowan is better. This isn’t my list of whom I think is best but it’s just 1 persons opinion of what I’ve seen thus far. It’s not how I think it will end.
 
Justavisitor said:
Evina Westbrook is having a great season that deserves consideration. 18 pts. / 5 assists (50% fg / 56% 3fg)

Evina Westbrook having breakout season for No. 9 Tennessee

Over her last four games, Westbrook has averaged 25.3 points and 5.8 assists for the ninth-ranked Lady Vols (8-1), who may fall out of the top 10 following their 95-85 loss Tuesday to No. 8 Stanford.
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I think if you go 0-5 and score only 2 points against East Tennessee State, you're pretty much disqualified.
 
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southofnorth said:
I hope they don’t just pick a player because of what team they’re on. The POY should be one that has well rounded stats and makes their team better (I know it’s not an MVP award but it is still should represent a team player since it’s a team sport). Anigwe has been vital for this Cal team and her assist numbers might be better if she had teammates that could score. Pheesa to me seems like the best option of these players because she makes her team better even beyond what the stats show. I would say Ionescu, but whenever I watch her it’s like she’s playing to get a triple double rather than make smart passes or take good shots. Still, those numbers don’t lie and I’d have to say that Oregon wouldn’t be where they are without her.
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I totally disagree. You seem to over value her impact on Oregon. With out her Oregon would still be were it always has been. Between the Pacific Ocean and Idaho with Washington to the north and California to the South.
 
Meh. Ionescu played 32 minutes. Oregon has a really short bench. Chavez played 23 minutes, Gildon 17, Giomi 18 (probably a career high for her) and Yaeger coming off an injury played 6. That's all the available players they have. Not sure what some of you are expecting, or if you just want to complain. I kinda notice that any time a non-UConn player does something statistically significant some here feel the need to try to de-legitimize it somehow.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Wilson didn't get player of the week one time last year?
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She deserved that award. Some of the players on that list didn’t perform consistently throughout the year. There were other players who were all Americans that didn’t get player of the week. Those awards are based one week not the entire year.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Meh. Ionescu played 32 minutes. Oregon has a really short bench. Chavez played 23 minutes, Gildon 17, Giomi 18 (probably a career high for her) and Yaeger coming off an injury played 6. That's all the available players they have. Not sure what some of you are expecting, or if you just want to complain. I kinda notice that any time a non-UConn player does something statistically significant some here feel the need to try to de-legitimize it somehow.
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The question is...if Lou or Pheesa averages more points & rebounds than Ionescu & are on the number 1 team at the end of the year, do they win over her despite her triple-doubles?? Because that seems to be very realistic.
 
DeeHusky said:
She deserved that award. Some of the players on that list didn’t perform consistently throughout the year. There were other players who were all Americans that didn’t get player of the week. Those awards are based one week not the entire year.
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Not at all saying she didn't deserve it, just a little surprised ESPN never picked her for their weekly award.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Meh. Ionescu played 32 minutes. Oregon has a really short bench. Chavez played 23 minutes, Gildon 17, Giomi 18 (probably a career high for her) and Yaeger coming off an injury played 6. That's all the available players they have. Not sure what some of you are expecting, or if you just want to complain. I kinda notice that any time a non-UConn player does something statistically significant some here feel the need to try to de-legitimize it somehow.
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I'll second all of this and especially the last comment. Last year Wilson was "the player who gets more good press than she really deserves," a judgment clearly disproven by her first year in the WNBA. This year Ionescu has become the leading candidate for that award. There seem to be some fans here (not a lot, but too many imo) who have a very difficult time crediting accomplishments that occur outside of the UCONN orbit. This shouldn't be a zero-sum game. Surely, one can give Lou or Pheesa the praise they deserve without having to denigrate what players do elsewhere.
 
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bbballfan23 said:
The question is...if Lou or Pheesa averages more points & rebounds than Ionescu & are on the number 1 team at the end of the year, do they win over her despite her triple-doubles?? Because that seems to be very realistic.
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I think to be national player of the year, someone has to be clearly the best player on her team. I would say that Collier is the best player on UConn this year, but others would say Samuelson, so it’s definitely not clear.

Question: does a head coach nominate one player from his/her team for NPOY awards? Maybe some but not others?
 
Bigboote said:
I think to be national player of the year, someone has to be clearly the best player on her team. I would say that Collier is the best player on UConn this year, but others would say Samuelson, so it’s definitely not clear.

Question: does a head coach nominate one player from his/her team for NPOY awards? Maybe some but not others?
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I’m not sure if this. My vote changes from week to week on whom I would cast my vote for between Ionescu, Lou & Pheesa. There are 3 different NPOY awards, right? Maybe just give 1 to each of them and save us the headache? ;)
 
nwhoopfan said:
Meh. Ionescu played 32 minutes. Oregon has a really short bench. Chavez played 23 minutes, Gildon 17, Giomi 18 (probably a career high for her) and Yaeger coming off an injury played 6. That's all the available players they have. Not sure what some of you are expecting, or if you just want to complain. I kinda notice that any time a non-UConn player does something statistically significant some here feel the need to try to de-legitimize it somehow.
Expand ...

I agreed with you earlier in the this thread that Ionescu gets the edge. She is a terrific talent. I don't think UConn was ever in the running to get her.

I remember seeing her in the McDonalds All America game where she showed that she should have been ranked number one coming out of high school (IMO she was the best player). IMO Ionescu was the one that got away.

I am much more impressed with her this year than the last two. She has become a transformative player. She makes her team mates better, and she is truly a handful whenever she has the ball. Mostly, she is cleaner and more fundamentally sound than most all WCB players. Emphasis on fundamental!

As I said...she is a real talent.

That said...there is much to the argument that if Pheesa or Lou were logging the same minutes as Ionescu, the race would be much closer. As UConn enters conference play, Pheesa and Lou will not get much more than 20 to 25 minutes of PT per game.

Also, the real test of who is the more dominant player would really only be seen in head-to-head competition...which is not likely, if at all, before the Final Four.

UConn Players have a long and consistent history of dominating competing All Americas from other teams. I believe in a game between Oregon and Uconn that the results would be no different. Ionescu would struggle to put up numbers while Pheesa and Lou would be consistent with their averages.

Pheesa and Ionescu are very different players...but both are the complete package. They contribute to their teams in different ways. Both will make solid pros. However....Ionescu's contributions have the benefit of being more flamboyant and measurable than Pheesa's intangibles can be measured as a work horse and inside draw.

Additionally, Lou is a once-every-few-years-they-come-along-scorer. She has a skill that will be highly coveted in the pros. Above all other scorers making the transition from college to pro! Lately she is emerging as a complete player. When all is said and done, Lou is talented enough to give Ionescu and Pheesa a legitimate run.

Finally, Ionescu is on a team that may have one or two other players that will make marginal pros. UConn has 5 players starting that will all be first round draft picks and will all make solid pros. In comparisons between who adds more to their teams this anomaly creates distortions in who looks like and is the best player. If Lou or Pheesa were surrounded by less talented players....I don't know that we wouldn't be talking about one of them as POY based on the numbers they were putting up (which would be substantially higher).

FWIW, I think Oregon is a very good team this year. Better than I expected them to be. The players have great chemistry and they play with purpose...a sign of real leadership. In the tournament I would very much like to see a UConn/Oregon matchup ...it's about time these two teams face each other.

As I said...I give Ionescu the edge....but optics and circumstances favor her.
 
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IWearShoes said:
I agree it's way to early, but since you chose Anigwe over McCowan I'll simply point out that...

- McCowan is averaging 17 and 12.7 in just 26 minutes a game while learning to play with one of the better rebounders in the country.

- She takes 10 shots a game vs Anigwe's 17. Extrapolate with her shooting % (70%), adding no FTs, and she's at 25 pts/gm.

- There's little doubt she's the most effective rebounder in the country and she also has better or comparable numbers in all other major categories save 3 ptrs.

Way to early, but food for thought.
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Grad1990 said:
I agreed with you earlier in the this thread that Ionescu gets the edge. She is a terrific talent. I don't think UConn was ever in the running to get her.

I remember seeing her in the McDonalds All America game where she showed that she should have been ranked number one coming out of high school (IMO she was the best player). IMO Ionescu was the one that got away.

I am much more impressed with her this year than the last two. She has become a transformative player. She makes her team mates better, and she is truly a handful whenever she has the ball. Mostly, she is cleaner and more fundamentally sound than most all WCB players. Emphasis on fundamental!

As I said...she is a real talent.

That said...there is much to the argument that if Pheesa or Lou were logging the same minutes as Ionescu, the race would be much closer. As UConn enters conference play, Pheesa and Lou will not get much more than 20 to 25 minutes of PT per game.

Also, the real test of who is the more dominant player would really only be seen in head-to-head competition...which is not likely, if at all, before the Final Four.

UConn Players have a long and consistent history of dominating competing All Americas from other teams. I believe in a game between Oregon and Uconn that the results would be no different. Ionescu would struggle to put up numbers while Pheesa and Lou would be consistent with their averages.

Pheesa and Ionescu are very different players...but both are the complete package. They contribute to their teams in different ways. Both will make solid pros. However....Ionescu's contributions have the benefit of being more flamboyant and measurable than Pheesa's intangibles can be measured as a work horse and inside draw.

Additionally, Lou is a once-every-few-years-they-come-along-scorer. She has a skill that will be highly coveted in the pros. Above all other scorers making the transition from college to pro! Lately she is emerging as a complete player. When all is said and done, Lou is talented enough to give Ionescu and Pheesa a legitimate run.

Finally, Ionescu is on a team that may have one or two other players that will make marginal pros. UConn has 5 players starting that will all be first round draft picks and will all make solid pros. In comparisons between who adds more to their teams this anomaly creates distortions in who looks like and is the best player. If Lou or Pheesa were surrounded by less talented players....I don't know that we wouldn't be talking about one of them as POY based on the numbers they were putting up (which would be substantially higher).

FWIW, I think Oregon is a very good team this year. Better than I expected them to be. The players have great chemistry and they play with purpose...a sign of real leadership. In the tournament I would very much like to see a UConn/Oregon matchup ...it's about time these two teams face each other.

As I said...I give Ionescu the edge....but optics and circumstances favor her.
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Ionescu is averaging 34 minutes. Samuelson and Collier are averaging 31 and 33 minutes I believe.
 
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Grad1990 said:
FWIW, I think Oregon is a very good team this year. Better than I expected them to be. The players have great chemistry and they play with purpose...a sign of real leadership. In the tournament I would very much like to see a UConn/Oregon matchup ...it's about time these two teams face each other.

As I said...I give Ionescu the edge....but optics and circumstances favor her.
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March 27, 2017 in Elite 8: UConn 90 - Oregon 52. Ionescu 15/8/3. Same thing if they run into UConn this season in the tourney. Sabrina is great, but she is slow. Speed kills.
 
Shmermerer said:
Ionescu is averaging 34 minutes. Samuelson and Collier are averaging 31 and 33 minutes I believe.
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Ok... "similar " minutes... the thing that troubles many viewers is when she comes out for the last time SOON after she gets the final piece of a triple double... in an otherwise blow out game/win.
 
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I believe Collier and KLS would have even higher ppg averages and rebound averages if they played deep into the fourth quarter in conference games. However, that would not be smart or good for the team. I don't think Geno cares about individual records and I believe many of the players do not either.
 
j66kicker said:
March 27, 2017 in Elite 8: UConn 90 - Oregon 52. Ionescu 15/8/3. Same thing if they run into UConn this season in the tourney. Sabrina is great, but she is slow. Speed kills.
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So I guess it doesn't matter that Ionescu was a freshman that March (as were most of her teammates) and on a team that was seeded 11th and was supposed to be long gone from the tournament?
 
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