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Message: [QUOTE="CamrnCrz1974, post: 2701022, member: 1052"] I disagree with the point about tools. Griner is very athletic for 6-9, but she is not as athletic as Tamika Catchings or Maya Moore (or even Gabby Williams). Yes, she has physical tools in terms of her height and wingspan, but she does not have a strong base in terms of her legs/leg strength (in contrast to someone like A'ja Wilson, whose base is incredibly strong). Also, in terms of tools, Parker's feel for the game and court vision are things that cannot be taught. She is literally a 6-4/6-5 playmaker. That is why a player like Ben Simmons (to use the NBA example) is so gifted, because of what he can do at his height. Griner does not have the natural tools/gifts of Parker or Moore. At NO POINT did I support Shades' argument. Shades explicitly stated that Griner should have 5 MVP awards and 4 WNBA titles. No one had that in five years in the league. No one has five MVPs now, for a career. Shades also brought up teammates, but ignored (initially) the fact that three of the four teammates he mentioned sat out last year. What Griner has done from a collegiate freshman to now is remarkable. Obviously, [USER=1706]@easttexastrash[/USER] saw Griner more times than I did in college, but throughout her career, she greatly expanded her shooting range (which she has continued in the W). She can defend much better without fouling (and can play with foul trouble while being effective). In just five WNBA seasons, she has accomplished the following: [LIST] [*]4× WNBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017) [*]WNBA scoring champion (2017) [*]5× WNBA blocks leader (2013–2017) [*]WNBA Peak Performer (2017) [*]All-WNBA First Team (2014) [*]2× All-WNBA Second Team (2015, 2017) [*]2× WNBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2014, 2015) [*]2× WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2014, 2015) [*]2× WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2016, 2017) [/LIST] In just five years, Griner ranks 8th all-time in the history of the league in total blocks and #1 in blocks per game. And in her fifth year, despite being injured for a good portion of he season, she still lead the league in scoring (offense) and blocks (defense). Yet, for Shades, the aforementioned accomplishments are not nearly enough, notwithstanding that, collective, the first five years of Griner's career have more overall individual accolades than Diana Taurasi and Candace Parker and are close to those of Maya Moore. There is no empirical evidence or data that Griner possesses such a vastly greater amount of physical tools than Taurasi, Parker, Moore, etc. that should warrant such discrepancies in treatment or holding Griner to such an impossibly high standard (while also recognizing that basketball is a team game and while one player can make a difference, one player alone cannot win you a WNBA title). But if Shades wants do that, we can certainly look at LeBron James and his first five years... [/QUOTE]

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