Warlick gets 1-year extension

[KnightBridgeAZ]

As CocoHusky pointed out, it depends on the talent of the replacement coach and few replacements will match the talent of the legend. But the replacements generally do fairly well compared with run-of-the-mill school coaches. Yes we can present anecdotal cases to support our positions, but that's a futile exercise.

All I'm saying is that it's an advantage for a coach to replace a legend. Yes there is stress involved but who would turn down replacing Nick Saban or refuse a head coach offer from Notre Dame, particularly when the alternative offer is Bowling Green?

Regarding starting from scratch, do you think if it was Holly instead of Pat that got the TN job all those years ago, would she have accomplished what Pat did?

But my argument would be that, of course replacements generally do better than average - for the reasons that you and others have mentioned - an above average, smoothly running program with good facilities. But - a coach that came in, took UConn to at least the Elite 8 every year, had great teams, lost 1 to 3 games a year, and didn't win a NC in 5 years would be a failure. And while that is an extreme case, the truth is that performing well - unless it is the same standard as your predecessor - just isn't viewed as well enough by some folks. And how many coaches that are likely to be Hall of Famers are replacing outgoing Hall of Famers?

I'll stick by saying that it is no net advantage to follow a legend.

Regarding your last question, of course not. Holly isn't a legend and isn't going to become one. Pat, like Geno and others, was in her own way unique, which is what allowed her to become a legend in the first place.

 

[BroadwayVa]

remember... sadly, Pat had to retire early. She didn't have the opportunity to groom a young coach etc. Holly was "thrusted" into the position, of course she could have turned it down... but why?

I'm not much into Tn assistants etc but it was my understanding Holly was a long time assistant to Pat. Good managers/coaches groom subordinates, not so much by "teaching" although some do but by example. If what I believe is true that Holly was under Pat for many years --she wasn't "thrust" into the job she just inherited the job with less warning. We knew for months prior to Pats departure that she was having issues and those close to her (Holly) had to know this a long time before that. Dementia does not hit you suddenly---sometime recognizing the problems is sudden by those around
I know this sounds argumentative but it is not meant that way--just presenting my side of "beliefs".

 

[stwainfan]

A little info on Holly.
played 1976-80 Tennessee
coaching 1981-83 Virginia Tech Assistant Coach
1983-85 Nebraska Assistant Coach
1985-2005 Tennessee Assistant Coach
2005-2012 Associate Head Coach
2012- present Head Coach

 

[BroadwayVa]

But my argument would be that, of course replacements generally do better than average - for the reasons that you and others have mentioned - an above average, smoothly running program with good facilities. But - a coach that came in, took UConn to at least the Elite 8 every year, had great teams, lost 1 to 3 games a year, and didn't win a NC in 5 years would be a failure. And while that is an extreme case, the truth is that performing well - unless it is the same standard as your predecessor - just isn't viewed as well enough by some folks. And how many coaches that are likely to be Hall of Famers are replacing outgoing Hall of Famers?

I'll stick by saying that it is no net advantage to follow a legend.

Regarding your last question, of course not. Holly isn't a legend and isn't going to become one. Pat, like Geno and others, was in her own way unique, which is what allowed her to become a legend in the first place.

Stick you your guns---We are talking about two jobs Tenn U/U Tenn and Uconn. Anything less than 110 percent is a failure (figuratively). Geno as Pat must have had a well oiled machine capable of running most days without Pat or Geno at the helm. What is lost when they go is the incidentals or unknowns that Pat and Geno brought to the whole process of WBB.
I doubt any one could name 5 that have the x and 0's as Pat/Geno and the "incidentals" to fill the void left by either.
If anyone had them--Geno would be up against equals and he isn't.
All other coaching jobs don't count in filling the Summitt or Geno jobs--these are unique.
It took Geno almost 20 years to become that "legend"--where will Holly be in 11 years???

 

[UcMiami]

I have a question Out of /Off of Topic (maybe)---You don't like Tn much!! Pat Summitt is gone. Holly isn't Pat. From the people I've met in and around Knoxville (don't know if any were from UT Knox) most were very nice people. Ignoring all the BS that happened between Pat and Geno and Pat and Uconn--what don't you like about UTn or Tn as a state?? I know what Meyers7 doesn't like about UT/Tn that goes back to Pat and the above. Assuming that's a dead horse--what then??

While not directly involved as some on here were with the TN complaint fall-out, it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth as well. I find the majority of TN fans who post anywhere still toe the company line that Geno did something dishonest.
And I spent one strange summer in Crossville, TN and another weird six months working in Clarksville, TN neither of which I considered pleasant experiences so I would not go out of my way to return to the state.

 

[CL82]

Any time you've been a number 2 to a well loved person in a job, managers (read coaches) like to have the decks cleared for a clean beginning selecting those who to keep for performance and compatibility.. Note that each President gets letters of resignation from every member the previous Presidents cabinet and staff--pick and chose. Compatibility with CD if she doesn't feel the desire to retire (she can now I believe) will be a huge factor. I see it as Batman and Robin will go together.

Bad analogy in my view. Here continuity is viewed as a net positive. For that matter, her resume is unrivaled. The job is hers if she wants it, as are most other WBB coaching gigs in the country.

 

[triaddukefan]

While not directly involved as some on here were with the TN complaint fall-out, it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth as well. I find the majority of TN fans who post anywhere still toe the company line that Geno did something dishonest.
And I spent one strange summer in Crossville, TN and another weird six months working in Clarksville, TN neither of which I considered pleasant experiences so I would not go out of my way to return to the state.

Dont judge TN on Crossville and Clarksville. Memphis is worth a trip to TN just to eat

 

[DaddyChoc]

I'm not much into Tn assistants etc but it was my understanding Holly was a long time assistant to Pat. Good managers/coaches groom subordinates, not so much by "teaching" although some do but by example. If what I believe is true that Holly was under Pat for many years --she wasn't "thrust" into the job she just inherited the job with less warning. We knew for months prior to Pats departure that she was having issues and those close to her (Holly) had to know this a long time before that. Dementia does not hit you suddenly---sometime recognizing the problems is sudden by those around
I know this sounds argumentative but it is not meant that way--just presenting my side of "beliefs".

players still gotta put the ball in the hoop...

this is the same reason why some is hoping that Geno coaches for the next 50yrs... no confidence in anyone else to be "exactly" like him. Jemelle and Tonya would be earning millions if it was based on who you were an assistant to and Elliott would be the replacement.

thrust and "less warning" means the same to me

 

[Alydar]

Exactly. Even in the pros, in various sports, plenty of examples of the program declining after the marquee coach left. The post-Stengal Yankees come to mind, and staying with that team,.

When Houk took over for Stengel he won 3 straight pennants and 2 world series. The demise of the Yankees was due to their sale to CBS and the rape of their farm system by the rest of the major leagues when they instituted the minor league draft.

 

[easttexastrash]

Every time a successful coach steps down, in any sport, their successor is in a very difficult position. No one knows that if Pat Summit's health had not ended her career that the Vols would be doing much better than they are now. Recruiting is tougher than it once was and the south now has more power programs than they had for much of Pat's tenure.

That's not meant to insult her or her fans but the landscape has changed. Pat being who she is would have undoubtedly attracted one or two more phenoms than Holly can lure to Knoxville, but a certainty that Tenn. would have won more NC's with Pat doesn't exist. What Vol fans think is most important, but I think that, given the circumstances, Holly has done a good job so far making the transition.

Ten years from now when Geno starts considering retirement his replacement will be found wanting on every level. This board will light up if we suffer through an eight loss season (remember how it felt?), and young ladies like KLS may no longer think that travelling to Storrs is the equivelent of following the yellow brick road to the Emerald City to meet with Geno the great and powerful.

Transitions are tough. Tenn. is going through theirs now; ours is coming. (But hopefully not for another decade.)

If Pat had not been impacted by her medical condition she would still be challenging for top recruits and national championships. Don't fool yourself. She was a fierce competitor with the heart of a lion.

 

[stwainfan]

We will never know what would have happened. If Vicki Baugh had not got hurt.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Is the assumption that Chris Dailey won't coach after Geno leaves? She just might. She definitely loves what she's doing now.

Chris Dailey has already said she is retiring with Geno. She's not much younger than Geno. I think maybe a few years younger - basically same age as Muffet.

 

[Bonpland]

Easttexas, I suffered through losses to Pat and watched her lead her team to a three-peat, and had her ruin several seasons for us. I know how fierce she was. I respected her as a coach; didn't know her as a person.

Given the option I would have preferred, along with almost everyone else, that she was still coaching. The better the cadre of coaches that there are to compete with, the more satisfying success can be.

I agree that if Pat were still coaching, Tenn. would be making final four appearances more often, but a ninth championship for them is another matter.

Either way I think that Holly deserves credit for doing a good job up until this point and as many others have already said, what happens these next three years will either establish her as the Vols new maestro or find her working somewhere else.

 

[VFLfan]

While not directly involved as some on here were with the TN complaint fall-out, it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth as well. I find the majority of TN fans who post anywhere still toe the company line that Geno did something dishonest.
And I spent one strange summer in Crossville, TN and another weird six months working in Clarksville, TN neither of which I considered pleasant experiences so I would not go out of my way to return to the state.

Judging us based on Crossville and Clarksville? Come on down to my home in Chattanooga...or to my 2nd home (all my college years) Nashville...or where my family all lives...Memphis. Those are the cities to visit...then you can form an educated opinion of this state!

 

[Bayareahusky]

I do not take delight in bashing TN, especially in light of all the great TN posters we have here..... but I never have thought Holly was up to the task of coaching such a storied program..... There are 2 main components to the coaching function .... the "x"s and "o"s , and getting inside the players heads to motivate them..... figuring out what makes them tick..... and I do not think Holly has a handle on either of these on par with coaches of commensurate status..... and then there are the 2 parts of basketball.... offense and defense.... and she (publicly, by the way) turns away from the "o" to focus on the "d"..... to her credit, her defense coaching is good, and her recruiting has been good, but as a ball coach I have yet to see her in a good light..... Heck, I do not even think she has a "signature" victory to her credit in the entire time she has been at the helm.....

I was re-watching the Maryland Elite 8 game again the other day, and was reminded again how TN comes up short in big games..... even with all the injuries they had suffered , they had 6 McD All Americans healthy in the game compared to Maryland's 3. That tells me the game shouldn't have been such an uphill fight..... There is 1 minute left in the game..... TN has the ball, has a timeout, and is down by 3. Graves has ball at top of key, and drives on MD defender one on one... nobody else in area..... What does she do but deliberately pull off the drive and takes ball to right corner..... then pass to top of key ..... then an air ball...... I think any good and reasonable coach would say with a minute left, that if you have an easy chance for a 2, TAKE IT! especially when a foul and 3 point play may ensue.... that had to be a deliberate coaching decision..... to exclusively seek a 3..... on a team where 3 pointers are not a staple..... a few seconds later Ariel got a 3 pt attempt blocked on a play that the TV analyst said she should have taken an easier 2.....

Again, I am not a Holly hater..... just a big skeptic.... she seems like a great person and if/when successful, I will be happy for her.... (except when they play us) I just think there are better options for Dave Hart than to reward mediocrity in such a way as adding time and money to her contract.... and no, i do not consider the Elite 8 - for a program of the stature and with the horses TN has - to be a recurring resume to hang your hat on......

 

[CL82]

Chris Dailey has already said she is retiring with Geno. She's not much younger than Geno. I think maybe a few years younger - basically same age as Muffet.

I hadn't heard that. I could understand that.

 

[Gus Mahler]

A strategic aspect of granting a college coach a one-year extension, beyond any reward to the coach, is to preempt the perception of instability in the program. The act signifies a vote of confidence by the administration. This may or may not reflect reality--coaches can and do get fired after extensions. But by giving at least the appearance of stability, the administration is bolstering recruiting, and, I suspect, alumni donations. In this critical period for TN WBB, you don't want doubts and rumors to snowball and adversely affect the fortunes of the program.

 

[stwainfan]

I think this year's team. Has a chance to be really good. This team has a few players Mercedes, Diamond that can make a difference

 

[Bayareahusky]

Gus - I really didn't think of that aspect of it.... Good point......

stwain..... ya i totally agree with you..... i have been traveling a lot lately and haven't heard latest news..... hope for you that DD's injury isn't going to keep her out long..... and I have always said,..... aside from Janna T (no longer in the fold at UT) .... person I hope does best is Mercedes..... to have foot problems with that imposing a frame..... well.... I hope she will be 100%.... from the looks of her play last few months ..... UT fans have to be encouraged.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Bestiarius main point and, I happen to agree is " it depends on the caliber of the coach that follows the legend". Facilities, reputation and recruits are in place for the Lady Vols to build upon what Pat had established. Thus far Lady Vols have not. If and when Geno retires the first question to ask before you evaluate the new Coach would be: Is UCONN getting the same caliber of recruits that Geno was getting? If the answer to that question is yes ( as is the case with Lady Vols) and UCONN records drops off to God forbid 25-10-this might be an indication that you don't have a very good coach. Better example might be in Men's football at the University Of Oregon pre-Post Chip Kelley.
Recuits still going to Oregon-Check!
Facilities still good-Check can't beat that Nike Money
Oregon Record Pre and Post Chip-Ah About the same.
Conclusion: Oregon got a pretty good coach to replace Chip.

Yes, but he wasn't an institution at Oregon like Pat or Geno. Chip Kelly was there less than 10 years.

 

[Boxerpups4me]

I'm happy with how Holly is running the program. We are still getting top recruits and she has kept us relevant and at the doorstep of once again being an elite team. There are things that she will improve at as she becomes a more seasoned coach, such as in game situations, substitutions and drawing up better last second plays in which we are behind a couple of points. She is def not an X's and O's type coach, but neither was Coach Summitt. As long as we stay injury free and with all the talent the Lady Vols have, we should have a better idea of coach Holly at the end of the season. Realistically though, if we can't make the final four this year with the massive amount of talent we have, I will become a very discouraged fan. I really have my hopes up for this year..

 

[CocoHusky]

I'm happy with how Holly is running the program. We are still getting top recruits and she has kept us relevant and at the doorstep of once again being an elite team. There are things that she will improve at as she becomes a more seasoned coach, such as in game situations, substitutions and drawing up better last second plays in which we are behind a couple of points. She is def not an X's and O's type coach, but neither was Coach Summitt. As long as we stay injury free and with all the talent the Lady Vols have, we should have a better idea of coach Holly at the end of the season. Realistically though, if we can't make the final four this year with the massive amount of talent we have, I will become a very discouraged fan. I really have my hopes up for this year..

I can't think of anything more important than Xs & Os when it comes to evaluating a coach. I also think Pat was darn good at it.

 

[Alydar]

I'm happy with how Holly is running the program. We are still getting top recruits and she has kept us relevant and at the doorstep of once again being an elite team. There are things that she will improve at as she becomes a more seasoned coach, such as in game situations, substitutions and drawing up better last second plays in which we are behind a couple of points. She is def not an X's and O's type coach, but neither was Coach Summitt. As long as we stay injury free and with all the talent the Lady Vols have, we should have a better idea of coach Holly at the end of the season. Realistically though, if we can't make the final four this year with the massive amount of talent we have, I will become a very discouraged fan. I really have my hopes up for this year..

A massive amount of talent is enough to win enough games to get a high seed but to get to the FF teams have to beat others with similarly "massive" levels of talent. I'll concede that the LV talent level has increased but there is little in the way of experience playing together. It's presumptuous to assume that Tenn can simply out-talent the other elite competition because they add Russell & DeShields.

Tenn has FF potential but in 2016/17. The starters need a year playing together to get there.

 

[Bayareahusky]

It is incredible to me that the Holly fans are willing to forgive or explain away past mediocre performances and point to the year coming up..... as the year Holly will break through.... there seems always to be an excuse or explanation for not reaching the Final 4 which I guess is the mark they are shooting for..... the last year or two..... the cry has been "if not for injuries" ..... and the players who were injured were indispensable..... and then with graduation..... the players who graduated and were healthy and playing were indispensable..... even though they were the exact players seen as a weakened starting 5

- I will never understand UT's contention on crippling injuries..... they had much more talent than MD in game to make the FF last year. At least going by high school All American credentials..... they made Brenda's team look good..... scored only 48 points the entire game..... and what about the game vs. Gonzaga..... #2 seed TN vs #11 seed Gonzaga..... 6 HSAAs vs 1HSAA...... and had to go to overtime to win..... my point being Tenn should be handling these teams without so much difficulty..... my impression is TN fans saw MD as Goliath..... not me

- and regarding Holly personally.....I think that 30 yrs as asst coach next to the best in the business..... one year as acting head coach, and now going into her 4th year on top of all this experience ..... I would have expected more by now from her...... especially when her recruiting is good.... again pointing to HSAAs....

As UC fan, I am quite happy she is entrenched in the HC position..... she will not do poorly, her teams will play good defense, and the recruiting train will stop frequently enough in Knoxville..... but head coach is more important in WCBB than any position player, and i fear CHW will not blaze a trail to the NCAA trophy.

 

[cabbie191]

I'm happy with how Holly is running the program. We are still getting top recruits and she has kept us relevant and at the doorstep of once again being an elite team. There are things that she will improve at as she becomes a more seasoned coach, such as in game situations, substitutions and drawing up better last second plays in which we are behind a couple of points. She is def not an X's and O's type coach, but neither was Coach Summitt. As long as we stay injury free and with all the talent the Lady Vols have, we should have a better idea of coach Holly at the end of the season. Realistically though, if we can't make the final four this year with the massive amount of talent we have, I will become a very discouraged fan. I really have my hopes up for this year..

I am in the camp that thinks Warlick has done an admirable job keeping the Tennessee program from falling off the wheels. But, with one potential notable exception, I also believe she has largely reached her plateau. To your point that she will improve as she becomes more seasoned: granted that being head coach is significantly different than being an assistant, but she now has 34 years of college coaching on her resume. How much more seasoned can she become? If she doesn't know her X's and O's, or clock management, or substitutions by now, ...........

The possible exception to her on-going tenure at Tennessee, in my opinion, won't be so much game management as it is personnel management. As others have speculated, can she impose her will on the team so that the Lady Vols play more as a team than as a collection of gifted athletes? If Warlick somehow finds it within herself to become a more dominant personality and takes full reins of the team, then Tennessee will likely find itself in hallowed ground again.

 

[meyers7]

LINK

 

[stwainfan]

I think the one thing Tennessee Has been missing. Is that superstar type player aka Parker. DeShields I think can fill that spot. I think Russell being healthy now gives the team a force inside.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yeah, Parker was transformational player..... Very few players at college level could coach themselves.... had that supreme level of talent.... parker was one of those..... probably D Taurisi, C Holdsclaw too..... they were incredible players.....

I still contend that Head Coach is more vital to success of any team than is any positional player..... superstars above notwithstanding.

 

[Boxerpups4me]

I can't think of anything more important than Xs & Os when it comes to evaluating a coach. I also think Pat was darn good at it.

I understand your point, and yes Pat was a great coach no question. However her focus was more defense and rebounding vs complicated x's and o's type offense. UCONN fans are more accustomed to really good fluid half court sets, which has worked very well for Geno. Holly, as predicted, believes in that same defense and rebounding mantra, and it's worked for us to the tune of 8 national championships, so I still believe we can win more NC's using that strategy. Now, Holly has to excel in other areas of the coaching spectrum other than just preaching "defense and rebounding win championships". If we get to the final four, we are going to play teams who have excellent coaches, so Holly will have to bring her A game. We will need more than just super talented players to win a NC this season.

 

[Boxerpups4me]

The possible exception to her on-going tenure at Tennessee, in my opinion, won't be so much game management as it is personnel management. As others have speculated, can she impose her will on the team so that the Lady Vols play more as a team than as a collection of gifted athletes? If Warlick somehow finds it within herself to become a more dominant personality and takes full reins of the team, then Tennessee will likely find itself in hallowed ground again.

Now this I can totally agree with you on. If there was one area where I wish Coach Holly would try to work on would be to be a little more "fierce". Now, I'm not saying she needs to try and copy Coach Summit, but like you say being a bit more dominant and deliberate with her coaching duties. I also think if she came across as more confident and decisive in interviews, then her image outside of Tennessee fans might become a bit more positive..