Warde's long, strong ties to Parker Exec. Search

[sdhusky]

I guess I'm speaking to someone unfamilar with the use of interviews in news sotories. . . .Ugh. .. . . Clairfying. It's this guy. And say hi to Uncle Paul
Bill Carr consulted on his first search in 1989, as an employee at Raycom Management Group. He left Raycom in 1993 to become athletic director at Houston, but he returned to consulting four years later and founded Carr Sports Associates (now CarrSports Consulting). Few people have been in the business as long as Carr, who is troubled by trends in the industry.

I still don't see the word "payoff".

That is your word, right?

 

[ruskin]

Are you suggesting that WM might know more about this process than you???

Wow.

I guess we ought to trust the savvy guy's decision to use a search firm.

A savvy guy who doesn't need a $50K-100K crutch

 

[ruskin]

I still don't see the word "payoff".

That is your word, right?

Sigh. . . . .Another criticism Carr and others make is that search consultants are inclined to place athletic directors who they think are likely to later hire them for coaching searches

Ok if it makes you feel better, Quid pro quo. That's Latin, by the way.

 

[sdhusky]

Sigh. . . . .Another criticism Carr and others make is that search consultants are inclined to place athletic directors who they think are likely to later hire them for coaching searches

Ok if it makes you feel better, Quid pro quo. That's Latin, by the way.

Ok.

So you read an article in SI that may or may not have an agenda about a criticism made about search firms you took that is PROOF THAT WM IS USING A SEARCH FIRM AS A PAYOFF TO PROMOTE HIS OWN CAREER.

Gotcha.

Talking out of your as I suspected.

Glad we got that cleared up.

 

[Rumrunner]

There are quite a few coaches who do not have agents. They may have retained counsel to advise on contract language, but no agents.

Also, for those who keep spouting that the UCONN job is so bad it can't attract elite talent, I've done this before and I'll do it again:

There are over 120 FBS programs. Each FBS program has an OC, DC, and myriad line coaches. Then you've got the NFL guys. All these guys want to drive the bus. So the talent pool from just FBS coordinators is big. A lot bigger than available jobs. There might be 15 openings in FBS schools.

Football scoop looked at the background of all FBS coaches.

This is what they found:
FBS/NFL head coach: 42
NFL assistant: 11
FBS coordinator (promoted from within): 14
FBS coordinator (prior connection to program): 9
FBS coordinator (no previous connection): 32
FBS assistant (promoted from within): 3
FBS assistant (no previous connection): 4
Lower-level head coach: 10

UCONN's ability to pay $2 m + a year guarantees that it has the capability to get a next chip kelly type of coach.

The question becomes one of execution, not possibility.

Also, as an aside, for Ruskin's benefit, Parker also recruited Herbst to Georgia.

 

[ZooCougar]

Notice I used the word representation. I highly doubt that there is one single FBS HC that doesn't have an agent/lawyer watching their six when it comes to jobs and contracts.

If you can find one that does it all on his own then please bring him to our attention.

There are quite a few coaches who do not have agents. They may have retained counsel to advise on contract language, but no agents.

Also, for those who keep spouting that the UCONN job is so bad it can't attract elite talent, I've done this before and I'll do it again:

There are over 120 FBS programs. Each FBS program has an OC, DC, and myriad line coaches. Then you've got the NFL guys. All these guys want to drive the bus. So the talent pool from just FBS coordinators is big. A lot bigger than available jobs. There might be 15 openings in FBS schools.

Football scoop looked at the background of all FBS coaches.

This is what they found:
FBS/NFL head coach: 42
NFL assistant: 11
FBS coordinator (promoted from within): 14
FBS coordinator (prior connection to program): 9
FBS coordinator (no previous connection): 32
FBS assistant (promoted from within): 3
FBS assistant (no previous connection): 4
Lower-level head coach: 10

UCONN's ability to pay $2 m + a year guarantees that it has the capability to get a next chip kelly type of coach.

The question becomes one of execution, not possibility.

Also, as an aside, for Ruskin's benefit, Parker also recruited Herbst to Georgia.

 

[J187Money]

But they also want to win. And win now. Someone that might have wanted the job 3 years ago might not want it now.

And it isn't that we can't find anyone. But there are 20 schools every year chasing the top 10 guys. And it isn't a certainty we can get one of the top 10 guys. At least in my mind. We don't know how many jobs may be open.

 

[ruskin]

There are quite a few coaches who do not have agents. They may have retained counsel to advise on contract language, but no agents.

Also, for those who keep spouting that the UCONN job is so bad it can't attract elite talent, I've done this before and I'll do it again:

There are over 120 FBS programs. Each FBS program has an OC, DC, and myriad line coaches. Then you've got the NFL guys. All these guys want to drive the bus. So the talent pool from just FBS coordinators is big. A lot bigger than available jobs. There might be 15 openings in FBS schools.

Football scoop looked at the background of all FBS coaches.

This is what they found:
FBS/NFL head coach: 42
NFL assistant: 11
FBS coordinator (promoted from within): 14
FBS coordinator (prior connection to program): 9
FBS coordinator (no previous connection): 32
FBS assistant (promoted from within): 3
FBS assistant (no previous connection): 4
Lower-level head coach: 10

UCONN's ability to pay $2 m + a year guarantees that it has the capability to get a next chip kelly type of coach.

The question becomes one of execution, not possibility.

Also, as an aside, for Ruskin's benefit, Parker also recruited Herbst to Georgia.

Appreciate the research runner, as well as your conclusion. . . .regarding Herbst, wow, those Parker tentacles run deep, eh? For a job like that (executive vice chancellor and chief academic officer at the University System of Georgia, where she led 15 university presidents and oversaw the academic missions for all 35 public universities in Georgia) the use of a generic search firm seems appropriate in that case because the talent pool is much, much wider than for FBS jobs as illustrated above.

Speaking of Georgia, if they're tired of Richt down there I'd take him in a heartbeat.

 

[ruskin]

Oh and by the way, no one is allowed to criticize play calling any more because none of us have ever sat in a coaching booth as an FBS coordinator

 

[huskymedic]

the use of a generic search firm seems appropriate.

What is a "generic search firm"??

 

[ZooCougar]

What is a "generic search firm"??

LMFAO

 

[sdhusky]

Oh and by the way, no one is allowed to criticize play calling any more because none of us have ever sat in a coaching booth as an FBS coordinator

No. You can be critical of play calling.

Just don't insinuate the coach is trying to shave points just because you read an article about BCU in SI.

 

[ruskin]

What is a "generic search firm"??

How about one not named Parker?

 

[ZooCougar]

How about one not named Parker?

Why don't you just say what you are thinking? Clearly you think that using Parker represents a conflict of interest and Warde is being unethical. Stop being a wuss and say what you mean.

 

[ruskin]

Why don't you just say what you are thinking? Clearly you think that using Parker represents a conflict of interest and Warde is being unethical. Stop being a wuss and say what you mean.

Conflict of interest might be a stretch but there would be less of an appearance of impropriety if he did this solo like Jurich and the other three cited so far. In the end Parker is giong to collect their money whether the hire pans out or not (unless it's within a year, apparently) and it's still Warde's ass on the line. I like guys like Jurich and Alvarez who have confidence in their judgement and don't follow the crowd.

Parker is a power broker and Warde obviously has profited from being associated with them, and will continue to do so if/when he gets a P5 job. Given all the time he's had to lay the groundwork for this, maybe he can turn this into more of a vet of his top candidates than the full-out search stuff and at least get the family discount. The savings could go to paying the new coach's buyout at their old job.

I don't have much confidence the Horde will even ask him about this but would be interesting to hear why he doesn't think this is doable on his own.

 

[huskymedic]

Conflict of interest might be a stretch but there would be less of an appearance of impropriety if he did this solo like Jurich and the other three cited so far. In the end Parker is giong to collect their money whether the hire pans out or not (unless it's within a year, apparently) and it's still Warde's ass on the line. I like guys like Jurich and Alvarez who have confidence in their judgement and don't follow the crowd.

Parker is a power broker and Warde obviously has profited from being associated with them, and will continue to do so if/when he gets a P5 job. Given all the time he's had to lay the groundwork for this, maybe he can turn this into more of a vet of his top candidates than the full-out search stuff and at least get the family discount. The savings could go to paying the new coach's buyout at their old job.

I don't have much confidence the Horde will even ask him about this but would be interesting to hear why he doesn't think this is doable on his own.

So you would have no issue if he used Korn/Ferry or Eastman + Beaudine??

Also - Just so I'm clear - your belief is that any AD who uses a consultant to assist in the hiring process is just " following the crowd" and something less of an AD than Moos, Jurich or Alvarez?

(every time I think my interest in the thread is over - you come out with another beauty that I don't have the willpower to let go unchallenged)

 

[ruskin]

Also - Just so I'm clear - your belief is that any AD who uses a consultant to assist in the hiring process is just " following the crowd" and something less of an AD than Moos, Jurich or Alvarez?

Yes. World could use more of these kind of confident leaders who trust their ability to size up people and don't spend money just because they can. I'm sure they paid for the 'due dilgence' we all agree is needed for this hire (background checks, etc) but didn't farm out the sizing up part.

By the way, isn't it funny that every time you weigh back in the "didn't use a search firm" list seems to grow?

Very surprising to me that more don't think UConn (via Hathaway, McHugh) got hustled out of $50-$100K two years ago and that someone should do some 'due dilgence' to make sure it doesn't happen again. Read this story again (I generally like the writer in question, but this reads more like a press release) and it's hard not to laugh out loud given the way things turned out.

 

[huskymedic]

Yes. World could use more of these kind of confident leaders who trust their ability to size up people and don't spend money just because they can. I'm sure they paid for the 'due dilgence' we all agree is needed for this hire (background checks, etc) but didn't farm out the sizing up part.

By the way, isn't it funny that every time you weigh back in the "didn't use a search firm" list seems to grow?

Very surprising to me that more don't think UConn (via Hathaway, McHugh) got hustled out of $50-$100K two years ago and that someone should do some 'due dilgence' to make sure it doesn't happen again. Read this story again (I generally like the writer in question, but this reads more like a press release) and it's hard not to laugh out loud given the way things turned out.

That's the point... the "list" doesn't grow, they have always been out there - you just spend more time Googling names to try to make your point that somehow what is being done is dastardly and a misuse of athletic department funds. Your list is still overwhelmingly smaller than the list of those who chose to use all available tools to make the right decision. I guess Top 15 AD's like Osborn, Castiglione, and Haden should be ashamed that they do not meet your expectations as "confident leaders".

I would take the fact that UConn is not utilizing the same people that were used by past administrations as a positive... not something to get brought up ad nauseum as a reason why they shouldn't engage an industry leader this time.

It is what it is... many support the process, few oppose it.

 

[ruskin]

That's the point... the "list" doesn't grow, they have always been out there

Well then. Why don't you save me the trouble and give me the rest of the 125 FBS coaches who were hired without a search firm.

That's like saying my keys, wallet and cell phone are "out there" when I'm tearing up the house trying to find out where the hell I put them

 

[ruskin]

It is what it is... many support the process, few oppose it.

Can we at least agree this "process" failed two years ago? -- just yes or no, not "yeah, but doesn't mean we should not do it again".

If we agree it was a failed process, why did it fail? Did Hathaway/McHugh ignore Alden's recommendations (most plausible theory). Did Neinas, who spends a lot of time in Dallas, actually push P because he was aware of his work with Cowboys (doubtful, but wouldn't be surprised). Did Hathaway pick P and Neinas just do the background check stuff without suggesting/recommending other candidates?

 

[SonsOfNutmeg]

Here's a question... If a guy like WM has been around in this busisness now for awhile at multiple schools/conferences wouldn't you think he would have a list already in mind? Why waste our $$ on a search firm at this point? Hathaway used one when RE jumped ship, and alls they could come up with was PP, GDL and other old has-beens like Whipple... seriously? Seems just like a huge waste of money to me.

 

[huskymedic]

Here's a question... If a guy like WM has been around in this busisness now for awhile at multiple schools/conferences wouldn't you think he would have a list already in mind? Why waste our on a search firm at this point? Hathaway used one when RE jumped ship, and alls they could come up with was PP, GDL and other old has-beens like Whipple... seriously? Seems just like a huge waste of money to me.

I think you should go back and read the 7 previous pages...

 

[FfldCntyFan]

This is a serious question, are people really questioning what a search firm does and the reasons for retaining one? Has nobody on this site ever been recruited by or used a search firm? It's not necessarily the finding of most qualified candidates, it's the vetting of the list, sussing out interest of the the names on the list, checking the closet for skeletons, it's a way to negotiate without having ill will from the jump about salary, benefits, ancillary revenue streams, bonuses, etc. It gives the university an honest out when someone in the press asks have you talked to X early in the process and the answer is no publicly, but yes in reality because the search firm has made the initial overture and temperature check of a potential candidate. Even is the aforementioned wasn't true, which it is, the money is almost inconsequential because it's such a small amount relative to the budget. I have a feeling that those that are fretting about the money allocated to this would book a full fare first class airfare to Paris and then would be paralyzed on whether to give the dude that helps with your bags $1 or $2.

I've been around long enough to have been in the business world for about a decade before the internet first became public domain (which was a couple of years before it permeated a large part of our society). There were two different jobs that I took at companies I knew little, if anything about at the time a recruiter contacted me and in each case, if it wasn't for the information that I received from the recruiter about these companies, I never would have considered them.

Keep in mind that in what I do, there are quite a few very good positions within privately held companies and in the business world, in most cases the only (pre-internet) easily accessible information comes from publicly traded companies.

We (UConn) are a school that many quality candidates may know little about (beyond possibly some negative preconceived notions) and, unlike the business world, it is not likely that a quality young assistant would have the desire or the time to research our situation to see if we could in fact become a quality place for his services.

If the hiring of firm does little more than add a couple of names (that WM was already interest in) to the first round of interviews solely because Parker was able to clearly demonstrate our quality as a destination where this could not have happened without them, the money will be well spent. This hiring process needs to be as thorough as possible. There can be no stone left unturned this time around as far too much of our future success as an academic institution and an athletic program needs the football hire to be a great.

 

[J187Money]

I've been around long enough to have been in the business world for about a decade before the internet first became public domain (which was a couple of years before it permeated a large part of our society). There were two different jobs that I took at companies I knew little, if anything about at the time a recruiter contacted me and in each case, if it wasn't for the information that I received from the recruiter about these companies, I never would have considered them.

Keep in mind that in what I do, there are quite a few very good positions within privately held companies and in the business world, in most cases the only (pre-internet) easily accessible information comes from publicly traded companies.

We (UConn) are a school that many quality candidates may know little about (beyond possibly some negative preconceived notions) and, unlike the business world, it is not likely that a quality young assistant would have the desire or the time to research our situation to see if we could in fact become a quality place for his services.

If the hiring of firm does little more than add a couple of names (that WM was already interest in) to the first round of interviews solely because Parker was able to clearly demonstrate our quality as a destination where this could not have happened without them, the money will be well spent. This hiring process needs to be as thorough as possible. There can be no stone left unturned this time around as far too much of our future success as an academic institution and an athletic program needs the football hire to be a great.

Exactly. Ruskin keeps suggesting that Warde can't find the names without a search firm. Most of us in favor of using a search firm contend it isn't about that. But he keeps arguing with us anyway.

Coaches don't spend any time watching film on anything other than their next opponent. And this is not the most attractive job in the country. Yes, we can pay. And yes, we have great facilities. But we are competing against schools that have that, are in real conferences, and have history and fan bases better than ours.

I love UCONN but this program doesn't sell itself to the top candidates. I will take all of the help I can.

 

[ruskin]

Exactly. Ruskin keeps suggesting that Warde can't find the names without a search firm. Most of us in favor of using a search firm contend it isn't about that. But he keeps arguing with us anyway.

Coaches don't spend any time watching film on anything other than their next opponent. And this is not the most attractive job in the country. Yes, we can pay. And yes, we have great facilities. But we are competing against schools that have that, are in real conferences, and have history and fan bases better than ours.

I love UCONN but this program doesn't sell itself to the top candidates. I will take all of the help I can.

I get most of the pro-search firm folks contend the firms' services go well above just coming up with a list of names. It's the "help make the connection and sale" part that is overpriced, or even unnecessary. And I think Warde needs all the help he can vetting his final 3-5.

Besides the money and facilities a top selling point of this job -- which Warde is perfectly capable of making -- is a prospective coach should know they can single-handedly put UConn in a P5 if they succeed. It should be crystal clear they will be given all the tools (well, almost all the tools, no cash or cars to hand out to players) and will be handsomely rewarded if they do so.

The coaches might be mired in game prep but I guarantee their agents aren't. The agents might do as good or better job of selling the UConn program than Warde or a search firm can. When announce day comes I want the college football saying "Why did he go there"
but when they look deeper they'll see a competitive salary package with bonuses, if met, that will astound the college football world. That will make the statement that needs to be made.