OT: - Victor Wembanyama | Page 7 | The Boneyard

OT: Victor Wembanyama

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It seems there’s always an excuse or point you get to in order to drive home your Jordan>LeBron position. I simply said he played more HOFers. The East certainly wasn’t great but he beat some very good teams of the time, Celtics, Pistons, etc. Then played against Warriors teams that are arguably the greatest teams ever.
No, you originally said Lebron played against way more Hall of Famers too. I asked you to provide that information and then you started talking about the NBA finals.

If you just want to make this about the NBA finals I'll bring up all the times Lebron lost, got swept, and all the times Jordan lost and went to a game 7. The teams they have to get to for the finals is of course relevant now that you made it a discussion about the finals.
 
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No, you originally said Lebron played against way more Hall of Famers too. I asked you to provide that information and then you started talking about the NBA finals.

If you just want to make this about the NBA finals I'll bring up all the times Lebron lost, got swept, and all the times Jordan lost and went to a game 7. The teams they have to get to for the finals is of course relevant now that you made it a discussion about the finals.
Well the finals is insinuated, as thats always the argument. Thought you knew that one. Bring up Jordan’s playoff record without Pippen too if you’d like. A loss is a loss no matter how much you butter it up for one guy you like.
 
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Well the finals is insinuated, as thats always the argument. Thought you knew that one. Bring up Jordan’s playoff record without Pippen too if you’d like. A loss is a loss no matter how much you butter it up for one guy you like.
The finals is insinuated, lolz.

Of course a loss is a loss, I'm not the one who has to do any buttering up. As I said, since you now only want to talk about finals....Jordan never lost in the finals, never even fot taken to a 7th game.

Do you think Lebron ever would've taken 5 seasons off from basketball like Jordan did? He's been moving around like crazy collecting Hall of Famers to play with in a quest to catch a ghost who is still alive. A ghost who cared so little about all-time championships he retired for 5 years.
 
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The finals is insinuated, lolz.

Of course a loss is a loss, I'm not the one who has to do any buttering up. As I said, since you now only want to talk about finals....Jordan never lost in the finals, never even fot taken to a 7th game.

Do you think Lebron ever would've taken 5 seasons off from basketball like Jordan did? He's been moving around like crazy collecting Hall of Famers to play with in a quest to catch a ghost who is still alive. A ghost who cared so little about all-time championships he retired for 5 years.
I don’t only want to talk about Finals, that’s just the pinnacle so found it worthwhile to mention that stat that always goes around. 31-10 in HOFers played against.

I also asked what Jordan did without Scottie, but alas.

I’m scrambling my brain trying to understand the point you’re trying to make with the 5 years off paragraph. If anything, that should be considered a detriment to Jordan’s legacy.
 

HuskyHawk

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The finals is insinuated, lolz.

Of course a loss is a loss, I'm not the one who has to do any buttering up. As I said, since you now only want to talk about finals....Jordan never lost in the finals, never even fot taken to a 7th game.

Do you think Lebron ever would've taken 5 seasons off from basketball like Jordan did? He's been moving around like crazy collecting Hall of Famers to play with in a quest to catch a ghost who is still alive. A ghost who cared so little about all-time championships he retired for 5 years.
My point in raising the finals thing is that his teams got swept twice. At least one other was 4-1. You can say his team was bad, but then how did they get there unless the competition in his conference sucked (which it sometimes did)? If you say he carried them to the finals, you then need to conclude he couldn't carry them further.

Jordan had Pippen, but not much star power beyond that.
 

HuskyHawk

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What were the great teams in the East once Jordan started winning?
The Celtics and then the great Pistons teams with Rodman, Dumars, Thomas and Laimbeer.
 
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My point in raising the finals thing is that his teams got swept twice. At least one other was 4-1. You can say his team was bad, but then how did they get there unless the competition in his conference sucked (which it sometimes did)? If you say he carried them to the finals, you then need to conclude he couldn't carry them further.

Jordan had Pippen, but not much star power beyond that.
There’s simply more star power spread out in the league now. More teams have multiple all stars. Scottie and Jordan were both top ~10 players with one being the obvious #1, not many teams back then had that.
 

HuskyHawk

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There’s simply more star power spread out in the league now. More teams have multiple all stars. Scottie and Jordan were both top ~10 players with one being the obvious #1, not many teams back then had that.
The Lakers and Celtics sure did when Jordan arrived, and those Detroit teams were loaded.
 

HuskyWarrior611

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The Celtics and then the great Pistons teams with Rodman, Dumars, Thomas and Laimbeer.
Those teams were not around anymore once Jordan’s run started. He never beat the Celtics. Saying Jordan had to go through the great Pistons teams while winning his championships in the East would actually be exactly like saying Lebron had to go through the Celtics Big 3 for his.
 
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The Lakers and Celtics sure did when Jordan arrived, and those Detroit teams were loaded.
It was once Jordan started winning. Those Detroit teams were very good but it was more about their brand of basketball than insane star power, obviously outside of IT.
 
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Q,
Those teams were not around anymore once Jordan’s run started. He never beat the Celtics. Saying Jordan had to go through the great Pistons teams while winning his championships in the East would actually be exactly like saying Lebron had to go through the Celtics Big 3 for his.
Oh boy, the Pistons weren't the Bad Boy Pistons when Jordan went through them...hmmm. Tell that to Zeke, Dumars, Rodman, Aguirre, Laimbeer, The Microwave, James Edwards...

He didn't get through the Celtics which was the best team in the history of the NBA after he missed almost the entire season with a broken foot and was on a minutes restriction playing just 18 games that season and starting just 7. He averaged 44 against them in that series and dropped 63 on them though.
 

FfldCntyFan

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No it wasn't, because so few people even played basketball. The talent level was garbage. The athleticism and skill nowadays is 1000% better. They were playing against the equivalent of HS JV teams practically.
I doubt that anyone who played in the NBA since either retired was a better athlete than Wilt or Russell.

Look up the athletic accomplishments of each, after that, look up what players who played against both Wilt and Jordan have to say.
 
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I doubt that anyone who played in the NBA since either retired was a better athlete than Wilt or Russell.

Look up the athletic accomplishments of each, after that, look up what players who played against both Wilt and Jordan have to say.
They were freaks, their peers, not so much.
 
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I doubt that anyone who played in the NBA since either retired was a better athlete than Wilt or Russell.

Look up the athletic accomplishments of each, after that, look up what players who played against both Wilt and Jordan have to say.

I look pretty good in the staff/student middle school game, too.
 
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Q,

Oh boy, the Pistons weren't the Bad Boy Pistons when Jordan went through them...hmmm. Tell that to Zeke, Dumars, Rodman, Aguirre, Laimbeer, The Microwave, James Edwards...

He didn't get through the Celtics which was the best team in the history of the NBA after he missed almost the entire season with a broken foot and was on a minutes restriction playing just 18 games that season and starting just 7. He averaged 44 against them in that series and dropped 63 on them though.
They lost. LeBron put up 51-8-8 in Game 1 of the 2018 Finals against the greatest team ever assembled. They lost though.
 

HuskyWarrior611

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They lost. LeBron put up 51-8-8 in Game 1 of the 2018 Finals against the greatest team ever assembled. They lost though.
That’s all it is. Can’t big up one thing that happened in the 1st round but use someone else doing it in the Finals as a blemish.
 

HuskyWarrior611

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Q,

Oh boy, the Pistons weren't the Bad Boy Pistons when Jordan went through them...hmmm. Tell that to Zeke, Dumars, Rodman, Aguirre, Laimbeer, The Microwave, James Edwards...

He didn't get through the Celtics which was the best team in the history of the NBA after he missed almost the entire season with a broken foot and was on a minutes restriction playing just 18 games that season and starting just 7. He averaged 44 against them in that series and dropped 63 on them though.
Yes, one time. Lebron actually went through the Big 3 Celtics twice. More than Jordan beat the bad boys Pistons.

That’s the thing with Jordan though, his story and the revisionist history is so unnecessarily big nowadays. Which is crazy because he doesn’t really need it.

Most people think he spent his career going through the Magic Lakers, bad boy pistons, and Bird Celtics when that’s not the case. His dominance didn’t start until those teams were on their way out.
 
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Yes, one time. Lebron actually went through the Big 3 Celtics twice. More than Jordan beat the bad boys Pistons.

That’s the thing with Jordan though, his story and the revisionist history is so unnecessarily big nowadays. Which is crazy because he doesn’t really need it.

Most people think he spent his career going through the Magic Lakers, bad boy pistons, and Bird Celtics when that’s not the case. His dominance didn’t start until those teams were on their way out.
You said something stupid and now you're admitting it was stupid.

Your last paragraph is pure nonsense.
 

HuskyWarrior611

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You said something stupid and now you're admitting it was stupid.

Your last paragraph is pure nonsense.
Huh? I think you misread what I said.

You’re being a hypocrite if you said Lebron played a weak East throughout his run and the East was so good for Jordan if you’re basing it off the Pistons and Celtics. Teams Jordan won a combined 1 playoff series against.

Lebron actually beat the Big 3 in 2 series. That’s the point I was making.
 

FfldCntyFan

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I look pretty good in the staff/student middle school game, too.
Hopefully I won't get dragged too deeply into this but,....

at either guard position, Oscar Robertson and Jerry West would compare favorably with pretty much anyone who came along afterwards, and I would love to have seen what both *especially West) would have done with a three point line.

Centers like Nate Thurmond and Walt Bellamy would have been dominant players in the 1980's; 1990's or later.

I would love to have seen Jerry Lucas playing with a three point line. The current style of play also would have benefitted guys like Elgin Baylor, John Havlicek and Hal Greer tremendously

Three decades ago I posed an argument (could never be more than an argument) that a team made of circa 1964-1965 starters - Wilt, Bill, Elgin, Oscar & Jerry. Second team Thurmond, Lucas, Havlicek, Greer and Lem\nny Wilkens with guys like Bellamy, Chet Walker and KC Jones filling out the roster would compare favorably to the (1992 olympic) Dream Team.

That aside, I will absolutely agree that plyers today benefit greatly from advancements in nutrition and athletic training and each individual is a better athlete than he would have been if he came along in Wilt's era (conversely, players from that era would be better athletes if they came along in this era), but there is quite a bit more to it than merely athleticism. How good of an athlete is Jokic? Doncic? When they were at there best, neither Bird nor Magic would have been in the top half of the league if you ranked them as athletes.
 
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Wembayana got dominated by Mitchell Robinson also got pushed around by Hartenstein and Randle. His pts were scored in garbage time. He will be fine but it’s not be an adjustment for him to play the 5, think the Spurs will need to move him to the 4 spot in the long run.

SA would be a great spot for Clingan, have him play the 5. He would improve the Spurs defense immensely and you would have your set of twin towers.
 

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