Val Ackerman on Big East Expansion: “Is 11 Teams Enough In This Environment?”

[superjohn]

SJ,

Do you truly believe that any BE member other than UConn currently is viewed as a high level program by those in power conferences?

When asked how a major conference school that won 20 games and finished well over 500 in their conference (referring to Seton Hall) was left out of the tournament, the response was "no 20 game winner from a major conference was left out". That basically says everything many here are trying to deny.

Outside of BE fan bases the only schools that recently had any gravitas on a national basis were Nova and us and it appears Nova has squandered most of that since Jay retired.

Many of us refuse to see it (and yes, the conference has done very well remaining afloat while outside forces continue the effort to sink it) but as each season passes it will become more and more difficult for BE schools to remain truly competitive.

The conference is viewed as a basketball conference and the schools in it are viewed as basketball schools. The Big 10, SEC and Big 12 aren't interested in any of that because football is all they care about.

I've never once heard anyone talk about the WCC as a basketball conference. I've never even heard anyone talk about that conference or any schools in it other than Gonzaga.

Do you really think the Big East and WCC mirror each other?

 

[Patman]

SJ,

Do you truly believe that any BE member other than UConn currently is viewed as a high level program by those in power conferences?

When asked how a major conference school that won 20 games and finished well over 500 in their conference (referring to Seton Hall) was left out of the tournament, the response was "no 20 game winner from a major conference was left out". That basically says everything many here are trying to deny.

Outside of BE fan bases the only schools that recently had any gravitas on a national basis were Nova and us and it appears Nova has squandered most of that since Jay retired.

Many of us refuse to see it (and yes, the conference has done very well remaining afloat while outside forces continue the effort to sink it) but as each season passes it will become more and more difficult for BE schools to remain truly competitive.

That's a different statement than the idea that the big east is just the east coast wcc

 

[Patman]

Scooter. You want to add the entire WCC? Why don't you think about why that's a terrible idea and doesn't get UConn more money then come back.

 

[freescooter]

I told you why I think it is a good idea.Here is my summary. 1. Gets a 2nd power school into the league and makes the travel issue less. 2. Gives us a national presence. 3. The schools’ profiles match well with the NEWBE. 6 of the 9 are Catholic. 4 of those are Jesuit. 5. They have a basketball focus. 6. They match up well with the mid-level NEWBES outside of Gonzaga, a national program which is good for us. 7. They are better than adding some lousy A10 program.

Look if I had my druthers, I wouldn’t take Pacific and Portland, but if I had my druthers I wouldn’t have Georgetown, DePaul or Butler either. Neither Butler nor Georgetown have been relevant for over a decade. DePaul hasn’t been in more than 50 years. But sometimes you have to take what you have to take. If the NEWBE is going to expand where would you look?

 

[Viet Vet]

I love the Big East. It just doesn’t work for football and football is a must for survival.

Big12 also would be a well-deserved upgrade for Jim Penders.

 

[Patman]

So you want uconn to make less money. Gotcha.

You don't need to expand. There is an option not to expand.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The conference is viewed as a basketball conference and the schools in it are viewed as basketball schools. The Big 10, SEC and Big 12 aren't interested in any of that because football is all they care about.

I've never once heard anyone talk about the WCC as a basketball conference. I've never even heard anyone talk about that conference or any schools in it other than Gonzaga.

Do you really think the Big East and WCC mirror each other?

Do they mirror each other?

No.

If you were to remove the one public school from the BE, then compare the two (in terms of national relevance today) the BE wouldn't be as far ahead as you are trying to claim. There wouldn't be much of a gap between the two.

 

[Jetskies]

Not at all what actually happened, and what makes it bizarre is that we ended up separate from the Catholics EXACTLY for the reason you want us to be separate now. Because we want to play big time football in addition to hoops and the Catholics don’t want their future intertwined with northeastern big time football.

"not at all what happened" - fine, i'm not that long of a fan. please tell me what happened, if you know.

But - reasons aside, who broke up with who, ultimately?
- if the non-catholics broke up with the catholics, then i agree with you - my sarcastic comment is out of line and UConn is complicit in the breakup of its short lived power conference home. But the boneyard tells me this is NOT what happened.

- But if the catholics decided to kick everyone out who wasn't going with their vision and take the BE name with them, then their panic of getting left behind in 2024 is rightfully earned. Old Big east was on a trajectory to be the Big12 of today or at least a suitable rival to the ACC and firmly in the fight to stay alive as a Power conference, certainly on the level of Big12 & ACC.

my point is, had the Big East stayed together, the catholics wouldn't be panicking to stay relevant in the shifting landscape. Even without having football teams, they could still be riding that wave to security. Foolish decision, no matter who was the one who made it (catholics or state schools)

 

[Waquoit]

I'll never understand why you do this.

I'm guessing loneliness.

 

[CL82]

This is exactly my point. Major conferences viewed Villanova in the same way they see Gonzaga. And yes I know Gonzaga hasn’t won anything. But you know what I mean. A power program in a lesser league. That has now transferred to us as Villanova seems to have returned to the pack with Jay Wright’s retirement. We have now replace the Wildcats as the power program.

Those of us who were around for the original Big East have a hard time understanding that St John’s Georgetown, and Seton Hall are no longer nationally relevant. Marquette, Creighton and Xavier are what they are. Nice programs with good fan bases but no national appeal and limited success.

I think an expansion of the NEWBE by adding the WCC makes some sense. You get a power program. You get a group of good, not great teams to play that will be good matchups for the middle of the league. Maybe the 2 bottom feeders will improve with more exposure. After all both are relatively new to the league. And finally it gives you national reach which is becoming the thing. You have teams on the east coast, Midwest and West coast. Of course there are issues over scheduling but the Big 10 and the ACC and even the Big 12 are figuring those out. No reason the NEWBE can’t too. Plus I’m not sure it would be any worse than adding a bunch of A-10 teams as others have proposed. VCU-Dayton isn’t going to move the needle.

 

[businesslawyer]

"not at all what happened" - fine, i'm not that long of a fan. please tell me what happened, if you know.

But - reasons aside, who broke up with who, ultimately?
- if the non-catholics broke up with the catholics, then i agree with you - my sarcastic comment is out of line and UConn is complicit in the breakup of its short lived power conference home. But the boneyard tells me this is NOT what happened.

- But if the catholics decided to kick everyone out who wasn't going with their vision and take the BE name with them, then their panic of getting left behind in 2024 is rightfully earned. Old Big east was on a trajectory to be the Big12 of today or at least a suitable rival to the ACC and firmly in the fight to stay alive as a Power conference, certainly on the level of Big12 & ACC.

my point is, had the Big East stayed together, the catholics wouldn't be panicking to stay relevant in the shifting landscape. Even without having football teams, they could still be riding that wave to security. Foolish decision, no matter who was the one who made it (catholics or state schools)

No one kicked anyone out. The basketball onlies left when every interesting football school but us had found higher ground, and we needed to reconstitute the conference with more football schools that were going to greatly devalue the basketball. The Catholics took a perfectly sound step. They would have gladly taken us if we had any intention of giving up big time football, but at that time we didn’t. But no one kicked anyone out. And from their perspective, every football school but us bailed on them. Because that is what happened.

Not shockingly, the Boneyard likes to blame someone for everything. Like every other social media board.

 

[superjohn]

Do they mirror each other?

No.

If you were to remove the one public school from the BE, then compare the two (in terms of national relevance today) the BE wouldn't be as far ahead as you are trying to claim. There wouldn't be much of a gap between the two.

Every conference is hurt when you take out their biggest brand and winningest program but the Big East would still crush the WCC like they did when UConn was in the AAC.

I'm not sure why some posters feel the need to denigrate the Big East, we all know our situation. The Big East is called a power conference for basketball, it was still called a basketball power conference even when UConn was in the AAC. People know who Gonzaga is but ask most casual fans about the WCC and they will look at you like you asked them about The Lost CIty of Z.

None of it really means squat in terms of realignment because football steers that ship but this Big East WCC thing is really silly.

 

[Patman]

Every conference is hurt when you take out their biggest brand and winningest program but the Big East would still crush the WCC like they did when UConn was in the AAC.

I'm not sure why some posters feel the need to denigrate the Big East, we all know our situation. The Big East is called a power conference for basketball, it was still called a basketball power conference even when UConn was in the AAC. People know who Gonzaga is but ask most casual fans about the WCC and they will look at you like you asked them about The Lost CIty of Z.

None of it really means squat in terms of realignment because football steers that ship but this Big East WCC thing is really silly.

I share the idea that BE's future is not great but they aren't so bad to merge with the WCC. I mean WCC merging with the a10 would still be a downgrade for the A10. Remember. Its Zaga then St Mary's and then absolutely nobody.

 

[freescooter]

Every conference is hurt when you take out their biggest brand and winningest program but the Big East would still crush the WCC like they did when UConn was in the AAC.

I'm not sure why some posters feel the need to denigrate the Big East, we all know our situation. The Big East is called a power conference for basketball, it was still called a basketball power conference even when UConn was in the AAC. People know who Gonzaga is but ask most casual fans about the WCC and they will look at you like you asked them about The Lost CIty of Z.

None of it really means squat in terms of realignment because football steers that ship but this Big East WCC thing is really silly.

And ask them what conference Creighton’s in and they’ll shrug.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

And ask them what conference Creighton’s in and they’ll shrug.

And a lot of non-casuals couldn't delineate WCC and Mountain West schools.

 

[freescooter]

This board has had lots of posts about expansion of the NEWBE. People have thrown around Dayton, VCU, St Louis as if those are great adds. Then there is Gonzaga. But the problem with them is location. I think my proposal addresses that problem plus, in an era when most major conferences are moving to a national model, it gets the NEWBE in on the game. I think an expansion is going to happen. This would be a more interesting plan than adding a bunch of A10 schools and you’d get at least 1 national program. VCU, Dayton and St Louis ain’t that. But postman is right that no expansion is an option. I just don’t think it is a long term one.

 

[John]

This board has had lots of posts about expansion of the NEWBE. People have thrown around Dayton, VCU, St Louis as if those are great adds. Then there is Gonzaga. But the problem with them is location. I think my proposal addresses that problem plus, in an era when most major conferences are moving to a national model, it gets the NEWBE in on the game. I think an expansion is going to happen. This would be a more interesting plan than adding a bunch of A10 schools and you’d get at least 1 national program. VCU, Dayton and St Louis ain’t that. But postman is right that no expansion is an option. I just don’t think it is a long term one.

It'll be a sad day for UConn athletics when Dayton, VCU or St Louis roll into town as a conference game.

 

[Hamms30]

If the Big East was the long play, the conference shouldn't be chasing Daytona and VCU. It should be going back to the former Big East members in the ACC and playing the card that, look you guys left us and your sports all became immediately irrelevant. If things really come to a head with FSU and Clemson and the ACC blows up, we have a plan. Come back Cuse. Come back Pitt. BC, we'll tolerate you and remember what the effect of having a northeast presence and rivalries actually meant to the success of yours and our programs. While you're at it, put in a good word with Duke and Virginia, because they'll be worthless to the SEC or B1G and they're athletics will be cellar dwellers vs. competing with some of the best basketball schools in the country in a new conference which will now have some of the top academic programs and with enough schools to now have a football conference. If that's not the play for the Big East, then UConn is leaving the first chance it gets.

The C7 don't have to play football if they don't want to. The conference can split the revenues of football vs. basketball/others. But the Big East can't clutch its pearls about UConn always trying to leave and at the same time, sit there and do nothing to try and advance the conference

Going after VCU, Daytona and St. Louis or Gonzaga is only going to isolate UConn further.

 

[CL82]

This board has had lots of posts about expansion of the NEWBE. People have thrown around Dayton, VCU, St Louis as if those are great adds. Then there is Gonzaga. But the problem with them is location. I think my proposal addresses that problem plus, in an era when most major conferences are moving to a national model, it gets the NEWBE in on the game. I think an expansion is going to happen. This would be a more interesting plan than adding a bunch of A10 schools and you’d get at least 1 national program. VCU, Dayton and St Louis ain’t that. But postman is right that no expansion is an option. I just don’t think it is a long term one.

 

[ZooCougar]

It'll be a sad day for UConn athletics when Dayton, VCU or St Louis roll into town as a conference game.

Worse than the AAC.