UWV is killing OKLA. St. | The Boneyard

UWV is killing OKLA. St.

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pap49cba

pap49cba

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Holmes with 20. 77-45. UWV could be an interesting 'sleeper'.
 
Got in argument with Creme last week telling him that WV should be a 3 seed.
 
Hey I've been touting WV all season. I know they didn't have much of a non-conference schedule, but I've watched them and they are decent. I didn't see tonight's game for obvious reasons, but I just got off the phone with a booster who pointed out that the final margin of 30 something points is misleading—they were up 40 something and were outscored 12-2 in the closing minutes when the game was over. Bria Holmes had 20 and is getting better. They have one challenge left, Baylor at Baylor, which is a serious challenge, but they should end in second place in the B12.
 
They lost Bussie last season on the second day of practice to an ACL tear, and then two other players tore ACL's later in the season, which really seemed to hurt them. Bussie is a very tough and physical center and seems to be getting back into form after a rough start to the year. Wouldn't be surprised if Holmes earns All-American honors before she graduates.

Interesting fact - Only two teams have beaten Notre Dame in South Bend the past in the past few seasons… Baylor & West Virginia.
 
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The WVU game is on Senior Night at Baylor and I cannot imagine Sims being anything less than spectacular that night. I think Baylor will win out in conference play. Who knows what will happen in the conference tourney.
 
Good to see Bria Holmes having a good season at WVA. However,she would have looked better in UConn Blue. Wonder why Geno lost interest in her.
 
Not to take anything away from WVU but is Okla.St a little overrated? How good/deep is the B12 going into the dance?
 
WV has the 4th best record against the Sagarin top 50.

ND .. 11-0
UConn 10-0
Stan . 9-1
WV .. 10-2
Bay .. 8-2
SC ... 8-2
Duke. 10-3
Lou .. 6-2
Tenn. 11-5
 
Wbbfan1 said:
Good to see Bria Holmes having a good season at WVA. However,she would have looked better in UConn Blue. Wonder why Geno lost interest in her.
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It was discussed recently (sorry, no link) that Geno felt Bria and Diamond were competing for the same position, and he thought the signs looked good for landing DD. I know others shared that expectation. It might explain cooling a bit on Bria. If he had known DD's decision, it might have turned out very differently.
 
vowelguy said:
WV has the 4th best record against the Sagarin top 50.

ND .. 11-0
UConn 10-0
Stan . 9-1
WV .. 10-2
Bay .. 8-2
SC ... 8-2
Duke. 10-3
Lou .. 6-2
Tenn. 11-5
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That's impressive, thanks.

They have only one top 50 team left, (I assume KSU, TT and KU aren't close), so they are likely to end up 10-3, but that's still worthy of a high seed.
 
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NickyNewark said:
Not to take anything away from WVU but is Okla.St a little overrated? How good/deep is the B12 going into the dance?
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Maybe.

Sagarin has WV at 14, which is quite close to the AP 13th position. They are 8-5 against top 50, which is not as good as some, but better than MD.
 
Phil said:
Maybe.

Sagarin has WV at 14, which is quite close to the AP 13th position. They are 8-5 against top 50, which is not as good as some, but better than MD.
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Thanks for the info. WVU is popular in my NJ family as my nephew is an "04" grad.
 
OK St shares a problem with WV - not much of a non-conference schedule, so their strength is in beating up B12 teams. Maybe the whole B12 ofs overrated?

It is curious that OK St is ranked so high, given only one win over a ranked team, and that was ISU, no longer ranked.
 
UCONNfan1 said:
What did Creme say?
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He had Okla St as a #3 and WV #4. I said: "How can you have OkSt above WV when against the same competition in the Big12, WV has done much better?" He gave some lame answer about the total resume. To me it just showed an overreliance on the RPI. The RPI is great when you have no direct information to compare teams. But when teams have played the same sked and one has done much better, then secondary sources are not needed!
 
Phil said:
. Maybe the whole B12 ofs overrated?
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That's why we have computer rankings, right? Because they can compare the results of thousands of games and give relative strengths even when teams havent played each other.
 
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vowelguy said:
That's why we have computer rankings, right? Because they can compare the results of thousands of games and give relative strengths even when teams havent played each other.
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Exactly.

As I understand it, the committee likes the RPI becasue it ignrores MOV, and it fears that inclusion of MOV will encourage teams to run up the score.

I think that fear is overblown, and can be addressed easily (put a cap on the margin).

This means that the committee is deliberately relying on a crippled system - it is like trying to play basketball with one hand tied behind your back—it can be done but it isn't pretty.
 
Phil said:
Exactly.

As I understand it, the committee likes the RPI becasue it ignrores MOV, and it fears that inclusion of MOV will encourage teams to run up the score.

I think that fear is overblown, and can be addressed easily (put a cap on the margin).

This means that the committee is deliberately relying on a crippled system - it is like trying to play basketball with one hand tied behind your back—it can be done but it isn't pretty.
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You don't know that the committee doesn't use the Sagarins. I'm pretty sure that one of the attendees to the Men's mock bracketing session said that the Sagarin was one of the pieces of information they had at their disposal.
 
vowelguy said:
You don't know that the committee doesn't use the Sagarins. I'm pretty sure that one of the attendees to the Men's mock bracketing session said that the Sagarin was one of the pieces of information they had at their disposal.
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On the contrary, I believe they do. But when they profess allegiance to the RPI, it means they probably start with the RPI rating, then sneak a peek at Sagarin to see where teams should end up, then come up with a Rube Goldberg-esque manipulation of other "acceptable" data to get to where they want.

Why not do it right?
 
Phil said:
Maybe.

Sagarin has WV at 14, which is quite close to the AP 13th position. They are 8-5 against top 50, which is not as good as some, but better than MD.
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MD is 5-5
 
Again, if you study the RPI ratings versus the selection committee placements over the last few years, there is little even halfway close correlation, which should tell you all you need to know about what tools are really used. I remember back around 2003 being confused about the big discrepancy between RPI and BEast team placements, and it took awhile before the light went off for me and I realized that the committee was not just a bunch of double-dealing cheats. Each of the members can use whatever tools they want in forming their vote on a team, but I'm guessing that Sagarin plays a much bigger role for them than any squints at the RPI tables.

Much of Charlie's placements seem just off so far this year and I'm not sure why he's giving VG mumbly responses about RPI anymore when he knows a lot better than that. Especially so when OK State had a relatively poor RPI rating of #28 last night before getting blown out by WVU, a team with much better RPI. Not sure what will happen when the Realtime RPI is updated later today.

That said, I will confess that RPI along with the Nolan system seems in my view to be rating OK State better than the usually more respected services. OK State is a prime example of a mediocre B12 team that tried to milk the SOS system with a schedule that started off with 11 home OOC games, and they played no away games until their 3rd B12 game on Jan. 8. That should not be allowed to happen. They'll probably still be able to take their results to an undeservedly good seed in the tourney, but they've really done squat all season. Their 4 wins for their 4-5 record against the Sagarin top 25 have come against teams rated 17, 21, 22, 23, and all were home games.
 
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Yes, one irony is that the committee chose to emphasize RPI specifically because they were concerned that alternatives would reward bad behavior, and the result is that the reliance (or at least lip service) to RPI has rewarded arguably worse behavior.

RPI ignores home versus away, so teams are rewarded to schedule a bunch of home games.

The bigger names schools can get away with scheduling more home than away games. Arguably good for the school which doesn't have to travel, but is it the best thing for the game. Schools can also design a schedule intended to maximize RPI, which means they might not be putting together the best schedules for the sport as a whole.
 
vowelguy said:
WV has the 4th best record against the Sagarin top 50.

ND .. 11-0
UConn 10-0
Stan . 9-1
WV .. 10-2
Bay .. 8-2
SC ... 8-2
Duke. 10-3
Lou .. 6-2
Tenn. 11-5
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That is certainly good, but their record against top 10 teams is 0 - 1 and they have two losses and a bunch of very unimpressive wins against unranked teams - TCU twice by 4 points, Texas in OT and then losing to them, Oklahoma by 6 and then 1 point. Their two most impressive wins are against OkSt (#13) and the next is against ISU (#29). I think they are a good team, But as I commented before about top 25 and top 50 records - when you are trying to compare top 10-15 teams, the record against teams outside of the top 25 should always by xx - 0 whether the team is #35 or #200.
 
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