USN&WR Research Universities -- Global 500

[upstater]

@upstater So if you were put a timeline for UConn being invited to the AAU, how far out would you put it? How do adjust for State funded research as opposed to the current Fed funded metric? How are we doing in our hiring? Have we picked up in that metric? Always appreciate your insight and expertise in this area....

Conn's gov't probably doesn't have the capacity and expertise to judge what taxpayer money should be spent on, in terms of research. Traditionally, this function has been left up to academics, corporations and the Pentagon, NRC, NiH, etc. I think what you're referring to is the money the state has pledged for research facilities and faculty hires. Little of that will count for the AAU. But that seed money should help UConn hire faculty that can bring in more research dollars.

The problem, especially with a GOP congress that will be cutting funding for the national foundations that dole out research funds, is that UConn is competing for scarce resources.

If the state's seed money creates a huge change in UConn grabbing new research dollars, then UConn actually doesn't have very far to go in order to be added. Boston U. got in by averaging $350m a year for a few years. UConn is at $200m+ I believe. So, get to $325m and then start talking with the AAU in earnest.

 

[Kolumbo]

Or not...
poaching mess reminds me of the 7 minute abs scene from "There's Something about Mary." 64 is the magic number. 64 chipmunks dancing on a branch.

http://klipd.com/watch/theres-something-about-mary/7-minute-abs-hitchhiker-scene

 

[buddy]

Universal rankings are the most important. If you can't crack the universal ratings, then galactic rankings are next best. Then global rankings.

I believe that you are correct. The Universe certainly takes precedence over the galaxies. However, the Andromeda rankings may have significant relevance.

 

[Seaa Blue]

If

I believe that you are correct. The Universe certainly takes precedence over the galaxies. However, the Andromeda rankings may have significant relevance.

I believe we wisely kicked Andromeda out of the ranking system as it was taking 2,538,000 years or so to get their votes in.

 

[RMoore1999]

@upstater So if you were put a timeline for UConn being invited to the AAU, how far out would you put it? How do adjust for State funded research as opposed to the current Fed funded metric? How are we doing in our hiring? Have we picked up in that metric? Always appreciate your insight and expertise in this area....

I don't think Herbst's actual goal is AAU admission. Instead, I believe she's been led to believe (by the B1G power(s) to be) that the actual growth of, and emphasis on, UConn's research capacity will be sufficient for eventual B1G admission. JD simply needs to be able to credibly pitch that UConn is trending in the direction of a B1G research university in order to make the final sale.

 

[Kolumbo]

I don't think Herbst's actual goal is AAU admission. Instead, I believe she's been led to believe (by the B1G power(s) to be) that the actual growth of, and emphasis on, UConn's research capacity will be sufficient for eventual B1G admission. JD simply needs to be able to credibly pitch that UConn is trending in the direction of a B1G research university in order to make the final sale.

I wouldn't be surprised by this. And still having Nebraska as a member gives them the wiggle-room.
Found this article about building a "new" AAU and the list includes UCONN on page 10. It also includes UCF, USF, and yeah, louisville. Didn't get a chance to read it but times certainly are changing and I am all for it.
The Introduction on page 2 is informative.
http://www.newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/NewAAU-20140602.pdf

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I don't think Herbst's actual goal is AAU admission. Instead, I believe she's been led to believe (by the B1G power(s) to be) that the actual growth of, and emphasis on, UConn's research capacity will be sufficient for eventual B1G admission. JD simply needs to be able to credibly pitch that UConn is trending in the direction of a B1G research university in order to make the final sale.

I have very little ("none" would be considered "very little" right?) insight as to the B1G's AAU "requirement" but wouldn't a reasonable expectation for an institution like UConn, were it admitted to the B1G, be to see growth in research funding to continue and perhaps even increase? In other words, mightn't UConn's admission to the B1G make admission to the AAU something of a self-fulfilling prophesy by simple virtue of formally associating with like minded institutions? Isn't a supposed benefit of B1G membership just "being in the room" where matters of research are discussed? Isn't it natural to share more with those you know than with strangers? "Hey Floyd...long time...what'ave you guys&gals been up to in West Lafayette?"

 

[Kolumbo]

I have very little ("none" would be considered "very little" right?) insight as to the B1G's AAU "requirement" but wouldn't a reasonable expectation for an institution like UConn, were it admitted to the B1G, be to see growth in research funding to continue and perhaps even increase? In other words, mightn't UConn's admission to the B1G make admission to the AAU something of a self-fulfilling prophesy by simple virtue of formally associating with like minded institutions? Isn't a supposed benefit of B1G membership just "being in the room" where matters of research are discussed? Isn't it natural to share more with those you know than with strangers? "Hey Floyd...long time...what'ave you guys&gals been up to in West Lafayette?"

I agree and given the recent work by UCONN, that growth would continue more rapidly. It pays to be in the old boys club, kind of like on the athletic side.

 

[upstater]

I wouldn't be surprised by this. And still having Nebraska as a member gives them the wiggle-room.
Found this article about building a "new" AAU and the list includes UCONN on page 10. It also includes UCF, USF, and yeah, louisville. Didn't get a chance to read it but times certainly are changing and I am all for it.
The Introduction on page 2 is informative.
http://www.newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/NewAAU-20140602.pdf

That is a sad little report. Troubling that it's funded by education "reformers."

UNew Mexico ahead of MIT? Get out.

Look, UConn is not being excluded. The fact of the matter is that the state gov't of Conn. for decades underfunded UConn and didn't care about it. Conn. was in the bottom quintile of support for higher education. The strides UConn have made over a decade have been unbelievable given the prior history. But UConn isn't there yet, and it's not the AAU that's to blame for that.

 

[Kolumbo]

That is a sad little report. Troubling that it's funded by education "reformers."

UNew Mexico ahead of MIT? Get out.

Look, UConn is not being excluded. The fact of the matter is that the state gov't of Conn. for decades underfunded UConn and didn't care about it. Conn. was in the bottom quintile of support for higher education. The strides UConn have made over a decade have been unbelievable given the prior history. But UConn isn't there yet, and it's not the AAU that's to blame for that.

UNew Mexico had 1,922 minority degrees. MIT had 372. I guess it matters how important that metric is. I think one of the main points of the report is that there are many good programs out there and the AAU is a very old old boys club. Think about how many students attend USF and UCF. Are those thousands and thousands of students really getting a sub-par education compared to the thousands at Michigan?

 

[pj]

I wouldn't be surprised by this. And still having Nebraska as a member gives them the wiggle-room.
Found this article about building a "new" AAU and the list includes UCONN on page 10. It also includes UCF, USF, and yeah, louisville. Didn't get a chance to read it but times certainly are changing and I am all for it.
The Introduction on page 2 is informative.
http://www.newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/NewAAU-20140602.pdf

The criteria of that table include "diversity" and "affordability". I don't see what those have to do with the AAU's mission. It ought to be focused on improving the quality of scientific research. Diversity and affordability are probably detrimental to science. At any rate, they indicate other priorities.

I would like to see a similar table constructed on the basis of criteria the AAU might actually adopt.

 

[pj]

That is a sad little report. Troubling that it's funded by education "reformers."

UNew Mexico ahead of MIT? Get out.

Look, UConn is not being excluded. The fact of the matter is that the state gov't of Conn. for decades underfunded UConn and didn't care about it. Conn. was in the bottom quintile of support for higher education. The strides UConn have made over a decade have been unbelievable given the prior history. But UConn isn't there yet, and it's not the AAU that's to blame for that.

MIT isn't as diverse or affordable as U New Mexico. Of course, if the AAU adopted these people's priorities, MIT wouldn't belong in the AAU. MIT is a research university, and the AAU's purpose would have been totally inverted.

It was logical for UConn to be underfunded when New England relied on private universities for research. We have very good ones. But, the country is migrating toward socialism and it is becoming increasingly imperative for governments to do everything.

 

[upstater]

Are those thousands and thousands of students really getting a sub-par education compared to the thousands at Michigan?

They are definitely NOT getting the same quality education that Michigan students are getting. It's a night and day difference.

 

[thatguyed]

It's high time the AAU adds a New England Public University.

I hear New Hampshire has a nice library and Vermont has Ben and Jerry's, so they'd clearly be the favorites.

 

[Kolumbo]

They are definitely NOT getting the same quality education that Michigan students are getting. It's a night and day difference.

I disagree. Especially when it comes to undergrad education for the mainstream folks.

 

[Kolumbo]

"In other words, the University of Nebraska was ousted from the most prestigious club in higher education because it was doing what land-grant universities are supposed to: conduct research on practical matters, like feeding humanity, and educate substantial numbers of students, not all of whom were born into the ruling class."
I think it's a good debate, I am not for elite-ism, times change, and I am especially concerned when my tax dollars are involved.

 

[Kolumbo]

The criteria of that table include "diversity" and "affordability". I don't see what those have to do with the AAU's mission. It ought to be focused on improving the quality of scientific research. Diversity and affordability are probably detrimental to science. At any rate, they indicate other priorities.

I would like to see a similar table constructed on the basis of criteria the AAU might actually adopt.

I believe part of the AAU mission involves undergraduate education and if public education has nothing to do with a diverse population and affordability, then you are correct.

 

[pj]

I believe part of the AAU mission involves undergraduate education and if public education has nothing to do with a diverse population and affordability, then you are correct.

The purpose of public education is one thing, the purpose of the AAU is something else. If the AAU evaluates undergraduate education -- and my impression was that they gave it close to zero weight -- then it would be because a high-quality undergraduate student body would help support recruitment of top faculty and maintenance of a sophisticated research program. Top professors like to teach smart students. Teaching gets very old fast when the students don't learn or are incurious. Researchers rightly feel that they are wasting their lives when tasked with teaching idiots.

 

[Kolumbo]

I think it's a great report. I think the AAU is outdated. Undergraduate education has exploded. There are over 100,000 students, including 17k graduate students, between UCF and USF. If that large of an education system doesn't warrant access to the best resources available and inclusion, then something just doesn't seem right.

 

[pj]

Being denied admission to the AAU does nothing to deprive undergraduate students at UCF and USF, or anywhere else, of "the best resources available" for undergraduate instruction.

What UCF and USF could reasonably be part of is the ALU -- Association of Large Universities.

 

[itgoeslike]

The AAU is a lobbying organization that tries to secure as much of the public funding pie as possible for its members.

 

[pj]

The AAU is a lobbying organization that tries to secure as much of the public funding pie as possible for its members.

Yes, but federal funding for research is going to be squeezed indefinitely by entitlements, which are growing faster than tax revenue and are politically sacrosanct. Discretionary spending has been falling as a fraction of GDP and henceforth it is going to be falling in absolute dollar amounts. If research at AAU universities is to be maintained, the AAU has to look more to private and state level sources. The organization knows that it has to re-direct itself if its purpose as a recruiter of research funding is to be sustained.

 

[upstater]

I disagree. Especially when it comes to undergrad education for the mainstream folks.

It is still and night and day difference. You are talking about a school that puts 5x as much resources into education. $40k+ spending per student versus under $8k.

People say these things aren't the same but when you are in a small seminar class with a top professor who has a 2-1 load and much more time to devote to you, it's very different from the professor with a big class and a 3-4 load. Someone who puts in 60-70 hours a week on his classes alone, and therefore finds little time for research and writing.

 

[itgoeslike]

Yes, but federal funding for research is going to be squeezed indefinitely by entitlements, which are growing faster than tax revenue and are politically sacrosanct. Discretionary spending has been falling as a fraction of GDP and henceforth it is going to be falling in absolute dollar amounts. If research at AAU universities is to be maintained, the AAU has to look more to private and state level sources. The organization knows that it has to re-direct itself if its purpose as a recruiter of research funding is to be sustained.

Yes. The pie is shrinking, which has caused many universities to shut down or restructure their research endeavors. I have a few friends that have been affected by the shifting sands, with one that had to relocate his research program to another university altogether. In addition, most states are cutting back funding, which puts UConn in a unique situation, especially when you consider its growing private partnerships, attracted by ongoing and future initiatives. My point above is that the AAU isn't really concerned about education beyond how it impacts member universities directly. Sure, education is a component, but it's primarily about revenue. The AAU will see UConn as an adversary until the university reaches a point where it can be leveraged. Then you'll see an invite.

 

[upstater]

"In other words, the University of Nebraska was ousted from the most prestigious club in higher education because it was doing what land-grant universities are supposed to: conduct research on practical matters, like feeding humanity, and educate substantial numbers of students, not all of whom were born into the ruling class."
I think it's a good debate, I am not for elite-ism, times change, and I am especially concerned when my tax dollars are involved.

Ag research counts for the AAU. Just where do you think these schools are located in the B1G? They are located in the midwest. What don't count are state subsidies for ag. Because these are not peer-reviewed grants. They are more or less political pork.

As for the agrarian versus technology debate, aren't we past that? The year is 2015. When Monsanto gives a grant for biological research, stuff that might end up "feeding" people, the AAU counts it. Not to mention all the stuff going on in silicon valley. Is that not practical?

Heck, we are having this conversation on the internet, a system created by researchers in the 1960s, and not for the purposes for which we are using it. If people were adamant about a waste of tax money back then, that would have been a great place to attack.

 

[upstater]

I think it's a great report. I think the AAU is outdated. Undergraduate education has exploded. There are over 100,000 students, including 17k graduate students, between UCF and USF. If that large of an education system doesn't warrant access to the best resources available and inclusion, then something just doesn't seem right.

No one is stopping them from putting their resources toward great education except for Florida's state gov't.

 

[upstater]

Yes. The pie is shrinking, which has caused many universities to shut down or restructure their research endeavors. I have a few friends that have been affected by the shifting sands, with one that had to relocate his research program to another university altogether. In addition, most states are cutting back funding, which puts UConn in a unique situation, especially when you consider its growing private partnerships, attracted by ongoing and future initiatives. My point above is that the AAU isn't really concerned about education beyond how it impacts member universities directly. Sure, education is a component, but it's primarily about revenue. The AAU will see UConn as an adversary until the university reaches a point where it can be leveraged. Then you'll see an invite.

[/QUOTE]

We'll really have to wait and see what the AAU thinks about these issues because short of ousting Nebraska and adding Boston U., there's very little to go on. I am of the belief that the AAU cares very much about the maintaining the disciplines, even if the money is gravitating to only a few places.

 

[Kolumbo]

Brandeis?

 

[itgoeslike]

We'll really have to wait and see what the AAU thinks about these issues because short of ousting Nebraska and adding Boston U., there's very little to go on. I am of the belief that the AAU cares very much about the maintaining the disciplines, even if the money is gravitating to only a few places.

Exceptional faculty, expertise, recognition and resources are all assets in securing grants so those will always be valued. My only point is that the AAU charter is not really about the advancement of academia in the general sense. Maybe it was 50 years ago. The good news for UConn is they have been making progress expanding the aforementioned assets, often at the expense of "AAU" universities.

 

[pj]

it's primarily about revenue. The AAU will see UConn as an adversary until the university reaches a point where it can be leveraged. Then you'll see an invite.

This is the key. When UConn goes from being a competitor to a desirable collaborator with whom they can hitchhike, then the invite is assured.