Upset Alert! Buffalo leads Kentucky!

[SubbaBub]

Is this discussion really necessary? Cal is a user. He uses schools, he uses players to make himself rich and successful. We know what went on at UMass and Memphis. He just has a bigger stage, now and a better brand behind him.

Where is his Caron Butler, his Hilton Armstrong, his Kevin Ollie. Guys he made not just better, but a lot better. To the point where NBA teams want them on the roster for reason above and beyond their ability.

The post that he is costing these kids millions is right on. These kids are making the league anyway if they are at all legit. Cal isn't doing anything for them other than maybe keeping them eligible and sending a few bucks their way.

They may win, they may not, but they certainly won't reach their full potential.

 

[pj]

You're riding the Wall/Davis/MKG wave. All those guys went where they were supposed to.

There's also:

Teague, the No. 7 talent in the class, went No. 29
Jones, the No. 8 talent in his class, went No. 18
Lamb, a top 20 talent in his class, went No. 42
Noel, the No. 1 talent in his class, went No. 6
Poythress, a top 10 talent in his class, is projected as a 2nd-rounder
Goodwin, a top 15 talent in his class, went No. 29
Randle, the No. 2 talent in his class, went No. 7
Andrew Harrison, a top 10 talent in his class, is projected as a borderline first-rounder
Aaron Harrison, a top 10 talent in his class, is projected as a second-rounder
Young, a top 10 talent in his class, fell outside the lottery
Johnson & Lee were considered top 20 talents, but are now looked at as borderline first-rounders

The only guys who substantially increased their stock under Cal are Bledsoe and, it seems, Cauley-Stein. And other than Davis, the guys he's put into the league - Cousins, Wall, Knight and MKG especially - all have the same exact flaws that were on display when they got to Lexington.

He is a brilliant recruiter. But he does not develop his talent, and most kids who go to UK cost themselves millions by doing so.

This is right on. About 23% of NBA draft picks come from outside the US (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=wilbon-110624) so if your high school ranking is N, your NBA draft slot should be 100/77*N or 1.3N -- that is, Teague at #7 out of high school should go #9 in the NBA draft (1.3*7). It is a red herring to think that college adds more competitors -- every player passes precisely once through both the high school rating process and the NBA draft.

Now, you should expect some mean reversion from highly ranked high school players, and some late bloomers, but against that you have to balance Cal's recruiting strategy. His whole pitch is built around making NBA stars and he is specifically focusing his recruitment on the players with the best NBA prospects (size, athleticism). Other coaches are recruiting for college success. So you should expect Cal's players to move up in the NBA draft compared to their high school ratings, since high school ratings are focused more on college than NBA success.

The reality is that Cal has not developed players significantly and has not raised their NBA prospects.

 

[Adios]

This would only have any probability if:

A. I thought they could drive Cable at TWC in NY State ... and have any pull in NYC. Buffalo - the State University of NY - has more traction moving towards the Toronto sprawl than Metropolitan Manhattan.
B. SUNY central takes care of Albany, Binghamton & Stony Brook as well. It's never going to have a $2b campaign through the legislature.
C. The AD can elevate sports ... They'll still be significantly a tier down.

No. I don't know their highest & best landing. They can get higher than the MAC

UB would be a great way for the B1G to penetrate the Toronto-Hamilton markets, but would UB step up in hockey?

 

[Dogdeacon]

Nice. Confirms everything we thought about Laettner

That school should hire Rod Sellers to come pound Laettners head into the ground until Chrissy coughs up the dough.

Later the incompetent local sheriff can suspend Rod a year after the fact.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Is this discussion really necessary? Cal is a user. He uses schools, he uses players to make himself rich and successful. We know what went on at UMass and Memphis. He just has a bigger stage, now and a better brand behind him.

Where is his Caron Butler, his Hilton Armstrong, his Kevin Ollie. Guys he made not just better, but a lot better. To the point where NBA teams want them on the roster for reason above and beyond their ability.

The post that he is costing these kids millions is right on. These kids are making the league anyway if they are at all legit. Cal isn't doing anything for them other than maybe keeping them eligible and sending a few bucks their way.

They may win, they may not, but they certainly won't reach their full potential.

It amazes me that posts like these get likes. It just sounds like the rantings of a butt-hurt teenager. There's literally nothing in that post but your emotional vomit.

Hilton's in Turkey, by the way.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

the fact is that the vast majority of players don't improve their stock under his tutelage, and I'm not entirely comfortable blaming that on 1) the kids themselves, and 2) bad scouting. YMMV.

It's beyond disingenuous to call it a "fact" that the "vast majority" of his guys don't improve their stock. There's just no basis to say that. Are there kids who get squeezed for playing time / attention / etc. and don't pan out as expected? Of course, just like at every other program. Are there kids who are clearly over-valued coming out of high school? Sure, just like every other school (UConn included). This notion that Calipari can't develop kids is just something that people say because they resent the recruiting classes he gets, plain and simple.

 

[pj]

Time will tell, BigErn. I think we're going to see some dissatisfied young men among his current crop of players and recruits. Recruiting one-and-dones worked well when he was getting his first groups and there were no quality upperclassmen competitors, but now he's starting to fill his roster with the upperclassmen who weren't able to leave early and there will be tension between them and the newcomers eager to be one-and-dones. Both groups still have NBA dreams. There aren't minutes for all of them. And if he's not developing them in practice, then their draft stock is going to fall.

Maybe he's an excellent developer and players can make the NBA even if they don't play, the way Matt Cassel made the NFL even though he didn't play at USC behind Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart. I doubt it, but if he is, then you'll be proven right.

 

[SubbaBub]

It's beyond disingenuous to call it a "fact" that the "vast majority" of his guys don't improve their stock. There's just no basis to say that. Are there kids who get squeezed for playing time / attention / etc. and don't pan out as expected? Of course, just like at every other program. Are there kids who are clearly over-valued coming out of high school? Sure, just like every other school (UConn included). This notion that Calipari can't develop kids is just something that people say because they resent the recruiting classes he gets, plain and simple.

Getting 5 top 10 recruits on campus is impressive whether it is done legitimately or not. And Cal is a two time loser in the legitimacy dept.

A monkey should be able to win college games on that alone. A good coach would make them better. The numbers on Cal aren't good here. Boeheim has a similar problem.

 

[Mr. French]

This is right on. About 23% of NBA draft picks come from outside the US (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=wilbon-110624) so if your high school ranking is N, your NBA draft slot should be 100/77*N or 1.3N -- that is, Teague at #7 out of high school should go #9 in the NBA draft (1.3*7). It is a red herring to think that college adds more competitors -- every player passes precisely once through both the high school rating process and the NBA draft.

Now, you should expect some mean reversion from highly ranked high school players, and some late bloomers, but against that you have to balance Cal's recruiting strategy. His whole pitch is built around making NBA stars and he is specifically focusing his recruitment on the players with the best NBA prospects (size, athleticism). Other coaches are recruiting for college success. So you should expect Cal's players to move up in the NBA draft compared to their high school ratings, since high school ratings are focused more on college than NBA success.

The reality is that Cal has not developed players significantly and has not raised their NBA prospects.

Those are my exact thoughts, verbalized better than I could have. Discussion over. Cal is an awful coach and developer, that's really the rations conclusion. He gets so much pub and love no one seems to address this except knowledgeable fans. He's a media and public darling. I have no clue why. He's probably my #1 most despised sports figure eight now.