Undersized at the 3, Crowded at the 4

[Sphinx]

Coach's statement that he sees Sid Wilson as a "small 4" is surprising, given that he has a potential wealth of mobile 4's and is desperately tiny at the 3.

Has the lesson of Iowa been so soon forgotten?

You wonder how far into the post-mid-major schedule Coach gets before questioning the wisdom of playing 6-2 and 6-3 small forwards while two natural 3's, Wilson and Polley, battle each other and two natural 4's (Diarra and Whaley) for the PF position.

Perhaps we should check again about halfway through the Florida State game.

 

[awfuldan]

I would rather be undersized and have our best players out there than feel forced to play less skilled players just to put more size on the court. Our small guys showed they can play tough against a bigger, more athletic team in Syracuse. That is our best chance of winning, especially in the AAC, where monster frontcourt players are few and far between.

 

[Rico444]

I would rather be undersized and have our best players out there than feel forced to play less skilled players just to put more size out there. Our small guys showed they can play tough against a bigger, more athletic team in Syracuse. That is our best chance of winning, especially in the AAC, where monster frontcourt players are few and far between.

The way Polley has played early on he's one of our best 5 IMO. Him at the 4 and Carlton/Cobb at the 5 is clearly our best frontcourt right now. Then you can rotate Sid and the 3 lesser guards in with Jalen and Alterique playing the majority of available minutes.

 

[intlzncster]

The way Polley has played early on he's one of our best 5 IMO. Him at the 4 and Carlton/Cobb at the 5 is clearly our best frontcourt right now. Then you can rotate Sid and the 3 lesser guards in with Jalen and Alterique playing the majority of available minutes.

Perhaps, but we haven't seen Sid in action. So we don't really know that. Right now sure, but the true comparison will come once Sid gets back, with his legs underneath him. We'll need a little patience for that.

 

[UConnStats]

The alternatives the the 4 right now are horrendous. Really nothing Hurley can do about it. I’m sure he doesn’t want to play a 6’3 SF. When Diarra comes back, it’ll allow Polley and Wilson to play the 3 more often, but we will still lack in depth at the 4.

Hurley made it to the second round of the tournament with a 6’4 SG playing PF last year, so I’ll trust that he knows what he’s doing.

 

[WhartonHusky]

We may not know what works, but have to assume Hurley does. Not like Sid hasn't been practicing with the team this entire time. Sid will have to earn PT, but hopefully we have a good sense of what rotations work well.

 

[jibsey]

Wilson is 6’8” with a handle? Why do we get caught up in 3/4? Our lineup has a million permutations but he can be on the floor with Polley if we are up against a big lineup, if he can rebound. If he can’t hold onto the ball or turns it over the guards are going to play more the way I see it. Hurley will figure out the best way to go, it’s why he gets the big bucks.

 

[Rico444]

Perhaps, but we haven't seen Sid in action. So we don't really know that. Right now sure, but the true comparison will come once Sid gets back, with his legs underneath him. We'll need a little patience for that.

Honestly I'll take Polley over Vital right now. Love Christian's toughness, but he takes too many bad shots.

Regardless, once we start facing bigger teams we're going to have a really hard time playing 4 guards or even Wilson at the 4. He's 6'7" and 170 lbs. That's about 20 pounds lighter and 2 inches shorter than DeAndre Daniels was when he was a stretch 4 for us our last championship season.

 

[SirHypeAlot]

Wilson is 6’8” with a handle? Why do we get caught up in 3/4? Our lineup has a million permutations but he can be on the floor with Polley if we are up against a big lineup, if he can rebound. If he can’t hold onto the ball or turns it over the guards are going to play more the way I see it. Hurley will figure out the best way to go, it’s why he gets the big bucks.

Listed 6'7 but closer to 6'6

 

[intlzncster]

Honestly I'll take Polley over Vital right now. Love Christian's toughness, but he takes too many bad shots.

Regardless, once we start facing bigger teams we're going to have a really hard time playing 4 guards or even Wilson at the 4. He's 6'7" and 170 lbs. That's about 20 pounds lighter and 2 inches shorter than DeAndre Daniels was when he was a stretch 4 for us our last championship season.

That's fair. I like going with both combinations of:

Gilbert​

Adams​

Sid​

Polley​

Carlton/Cobb​

​

-or-

Adams/Gilbert​

Vital/Tarin​

Sid​

Polley​

Carlton/Cobb​

​

EDIT: And Daniels had a more solid lower body (Sid has 2 toothpicks for legs), bigger shoulders, and longer wingspan). I don't see Sid as an effective 4 against any kind of size.

 

[Jay-Bone]

Coach's statement that he sees Sid Wilson as a "small 4" is surprising, given that he has a potential wealth of mobile 4's and is desperately tiny at the 3.

Has the lesson of Iowa been so soon forgotten?

You wonder how far into the post-mid-major schedule Coach gets before questioning the wisdom of playing 6-2 and 6-3 small forwards while two natural 3's, Wilson and Polley, battle each other and two natural 4's (Diarra and Whaley) for the PF position.

Perhaps we should check again about halfway through the Florida State game.

I agree. This board keeps saying not to worry as there are no good swings in the American. Well should be interesting to see how we defend Brandon Randolph and Terrence Mann. Iowa totally exposed the four guard line up. Hopefully Sid can step in and defend mobile forwards as Polley isn't quick enough and Tarrin doesn't have enough length.

If Sid is as good a shot blocker as Jalen makes him out to be, that should help what he lacks in strength.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Coach's statement that he sees Sid Wilson as a "small 4" is surprising, given that he has a potential wealth of mobile 4's and is desperately tiny at the 3.

Has the lesson of Iowa been so soon forgotten?

You wonder how far into the post-mid-major schedule Coach gets before questioning the wisdom of playing 6-2 and 6-3 small forwards while two natural 3's, Wilson and Polley, battle each other and two natural 4's (Diarra and Whaley) for the PF position.

Perhaps we should check again about halfway through the Florida State game.

First of all, the idea of a "natural 3" is nonsense. Secondly, Tyler Polley's skillset stopped being that of a prototypical 3 around 1998. Big, slow wings who can shoot play the 4 now, and have for a while.

 

[mrl2016]

Polley may be shooting the ball well on the year but in the games I put the most credence in (Syracuse & Iowa) he shot 5/14 collectively compared to CV's 7/13. Shots when you're up 20 and shots when it matters are not created equal.

Personally, add that with my opinion of Polley defensively, and I'd rather see AG, JA, CV/Tarin, Sid, Cobb on the court. If that doesn't work try Sid at the 3 & if that doesn't work leave him on the bench. Just my 2 cents

 

[superjohn]

Coach's statement that he sees Sid Wilson as a "small 4" is surprising, given that he has a potential wealth of mobile 4's and is desperately tiny at the 3.

Has the lesson of Iowa been so soon forgotten?

You wonder how far into the post-mid-major schedule Coach gets before questioning the wisdom of playing 6-2 and 6-3 small forwards while two natural 3's, Wilson and Polley, battle each other and two natural 4's (Diarra and Whaley) for the PF position.

Perhaps we should check again about halfway through the Florida State game.

Yep, we're loaded at the 4. This board never stops amazing me.

 

[intlzncster]

Yep, we're loaded at the 4. This board never stops amazing me.

haha Probably our most loaded single position, if you separate PG vs SG.

 

[superjohn]

Wilson is 6’8” with a handle? Why do we get caught up in 3/4? Our lineup has a million permutations but he can be on the floor with Polley if we are up against a big lineup, if he can rebound. If he can’t hold onto the ball or turns it over the guards are going to play more the way I see it. Hurley will figure out the best way to go, it’s why he gets the big bucks.

Sid is nowhere near 6'8 and he's impossibly skinny.

 

[intlzncster]

Polley may be shooting the ball well on the year but in the games I put the most credence in (Syracuse & Iowa) he shot 5/14 collectively compared to CV's 7/13. Shots when you're up 20 and shots when it matters are not created equal.

Personally, add that with my opinion of Polley defensively, and I'd rather see AG, JA, CV/Tarin, Sid, Cobb on the court. If that doesn't work try Sid at the 3 & if that doesn't work leave him on the bench. Just my 2 cents

Comes down to shot selection for me. I haven't had the chance to watch every game (watching replays), as I'm away, but I'm going to focus on that when I do.

I suspect, but don't know, that Polley's shot selection is better than Vital's. He just didn't knock down as many, which is OK in a small sample, as he appears to be a good shooter.

 

[Sphinx]

A fair question I forgot to ask, "How many NC's has UConn won playing a small forward shorter than the opponent's point guard (which, given the current rotation, will be the case in at least half our remaining games.)

 

[mrl2016]

Comes down to shot selection for me. I haven't had the chance to watch every game (watching replays), as I'm away, but I'm going to focus on that when I do.

I suspect, but don't know, that Polley's shot selection is better than Vital's. He just didn't knock down as many, which is OK in a small sample, as he appears to be a good shooter.

I hear you there are certainly times CV drives me crazy with his shot selection, I'm just kind of indifferent on Polley. Here's to hoping he proves me wrong

 

[UofCT]

I hear you there are certainly times CV drives me crazy with his shot selection, I'm just kind of indifferent on Polley. Here's to hoping he proves me wrong

You stole my avatar

 

[Rico444]

Polley may be shooting the ball well on the year but in the games I put the most credence in (Syracuse & Iowa) he shot 5/14 collectively compared to CV's 7/13. Shots when you're up 20 and shots when it matters are not created equal.

Personally, add that with my opinion of Polley defensively, and I'd rather see AG, JA, CV/Tarin, Sid, Cobb on the court. If that doesn't work try Sid at the 3 & if that doesn't work leave him on the bench. Just my 2 cents

That's a really small sample size to be making any definitive conclusions. Overall I like what Polley's given us a little more, and if you take him off the court for CV then you're either playing someone out of position at the 4, or putting a far inferior player at that position. That's why I'd rather Sid plays the 3.

 

[Husky25]

Wilson is 6’8” with a handle? Why do we get caught up in 3/4? Our lineup has a million permutations but he can be on the floor with Polley if we are up against a big lineup, if he can rebound. If he can’t hold onto the ball or turns it over the guards are going to play more the way I see it. Hurley will figure out the best way to go, it’s why he gets the big bucks.

Because so many are locked into the 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center archetype.

The reality is that small forward has morphed into a separate hybrid position, and depending on individual skill, anyone from 6'-4" to 6'-9"(with the occasional outlier) should be able to line up there. Another reality is that UConn is severely vertically challenged in terms of raw height. They will usually be undersized at the 4 and 5, by comparison to most opponents.

From my vantage point, Hurley is not afraid to channel his inner-Nova and play different lineups (i.e. 3 or 4 guards as he deems necessary) to take advantage of mismatches and inefficiencies provided by the other team.

 

[mrl2016]

You stole my avatar

What can I say you have great taste

 

[August_West]

Coach's statement that he sees Sid Wilson as a "small 4" is surprising, given that he has a potential wealth of mobile 4's and is desperately tiny at the 3.

Has the lesson of Iowa been so soon forgotten?

You wonder how far into the post-mid-major schedule Coach gets before questioning the wisdom of playing 6-2 and 6-3 small forwards while two natural 3's, Wilson and Polley, battle each other and two natural 4's (Diarra and Whaley) for the PF position.

Perhaps we should check again about halfway through the Florida State game.

Jeez I wish we could be more like our 2014 team when Herculean Monster muscle Freshman Amida Brimah, Phil "Charles Atlas" Nolan, and Deandre "Human Growth Hormone" Daniels comprised our 4 and 5 front line rotation and out muscled and Body Slammed the front lines of the biggest teams in the country en route to a title.

I miss that interior strength!

 

[awfuldan]

A fair question I forgot to ask, "How many NC's has UConn won playing a small forward shorter than the opponent's point guard (which, given the current rotation, will be the case in at least half our remaining games.)

Yeah, obviously we do not have a Championship-caliber roster right now. I don't think anyone is going to argue that. That is why recruiting is so important for us the next couple years. Are you trying to suggest that playing Isaiah Whaley extra minutes at the 4 makes us more likely to win the title this year?

Edit: Playing a front court of Polley, Whaley, and Carlton or Wilson, Diarra, and Cobb is not playing to our strength as a team. We will win more games playing small ball this year.