UNC Ruling: No NCAA Academic Rules Violation

[dogged1]

the Penn State debacle was the straw that broke the camel's back when it came to the NCAA treading in areas of limited or no jurisdiction......you see they have no problem going after recruiting violations because that is clearly a part of their mission...unless they try to push into academic areas (which they won't because schools don't want them to) you will likely see other similar cases come to light in which they will defer to the educational organizations that oversee college activities

The NCAA should not have intervened in the Sandusky/Penn State scandal. That was a criminal felony and was a matter for the police and a court of law. If the Penn State administration was passively or actively involved that too is for the courts.
But the core mission of the NCAA is to promote college athletes, and their most important role in doing that is to make and enforce the rules that create a level playing field for all member institutions. For nearly 20 years UNC broke faith with every other (non cheating) member by giving their student athletes an advantage. And they did on an institutional level. They conspired to create fake classes, and they carefully crafted a defense by allowing a few non athletes to attend the bogus courses. Clearly they knew what they were doing was wrong and just as clearly they set up a defense for when/if they got caught.

Doesn't this offend you?

 

[CocoHusky]

they may set the number but they don't make judgments about individual class quality....that academic oversight
is the purview of accreditation organizations

The minimum GPA set by the NCAA is both a qualitative and quantitative measure because the same number it applied for all institutions and has nothing to do with the accreditation organizations. It does not matter if a student is majoring in Bio Chemistry or basket weaving the same GPA is required to be athletically eligible.

 

[dogged1]

14.02.1 Academic Misconduct—Post-Enrollment. All institutional staff members and student-athletes are expected to act with honesty and integrity in all academic matters.

Like +1000000

 

[Charliebball]

The minimum GPA set by the NCAA is both a qualitative and quantitative measure because the same number it applied for all institutions and has nothing to do with the accreditation organizations. It does not matter if a student is majoring in Bio Chemistry or basket weaving the same GPA is required to be athletically eligible.

that's exactly my point............they have no controlling interest over the quality of courses or course requirements.......it's very clear.........they would have gotten killed in court, that's why they gave in..............do you really think that UNC basketball is powerful enough to put the NCAA in such an embarrassing position?

If you do then you're letting your emotions get in the way of common sense...............the lawyers on that committee saw what they were up against legally and threw in the towel...........it's as simple as that...........if it had been any school with a good legal budget they would have done the same thing..............believe it or not.................

 

[HoopsFan21]

that's exactly my point..they have no controlling interest over the quality of courses or course requirements..it's very clear....they would have gotten killed in court, that's why they gave in....do you really think that UNC basketball is powerful enough to put the NCAA in such an embarrassing position?

If you do then you're letting your emotions get in the way of common sense.....the lawyers on that committee saw what they were up against legally and threw in the towel......it's as simple as that......if it had been any school with a good legal budget they would have done the same thing....believe it or not.......

Why didn't UConn fight the sanctions a few years ago?

 

[Charliebball]

Why didn't UConn fight the sanctions a few years ago?

Perhaps they didn't have grounds to defend the sanctions as UNC did...................sometimes schools would rather take a lesser penalty as opposed to risking a harsher penalty if they try and fight it.............in UNC's case, they knew they had a winnable case, if not through the NCAA then through the courts, can't speak to the UConn situation............

 

[UConnCat]

North Carolina embarrassed the NCAA (and itself) in academic fraud case

Carolina even changed its argument for the NCAA. When the school was in front of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, which accredits it as an actual university, it declared that no-show, no-professor, no-work classes were wrong.

“UNC reported to its accreditor that what occurred for nearly 18 years on its campus was academic fraud,” the NCAA report stated. ” … Specifically, UNC admitted [it] demonstrated that, ‘the academic fraud was long-standing.'”

Now, though, the classes weren’t fraud. They were fine. The NCAA was astounded. The Committee on Infractions asked how this was possible.

“UNC [told] the panel that it was merely a ‘typo’ or oversight,” the NCAA wrote.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Perhaps they didn't have grounds to defend the sanctions as UNC did....sometimes schools would rather take a lesser penalty as opposed to risking a harsher penalty if they try and fight it...in UNC's case, they knew they had a winnable case, if not through the NCAA then through the courts, can't speak to the UConn situation..

I didn't even think you could go to court over something like this. I mean wouldn't a court just say hey UNC you signed up to the NCAA and agreed to its infractions process, and if you don't like it you can leave whenever you like. Being a part of the NCAA isn't mandatory.

 

[Charliebball]

North Carolina embarrassed the NCAA (and itself) in academic fraud case

Carolina even changed its argument for the NCAA. When the school was in front of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, which accredits it as an actual university, it declared that no-show, no-professor, no-work classes were wrong.

“UNC reported to its accreditor that what occurred for nearly 18 years on its campus was academic fraud,” the NCAA report stated. ” … Specifically, UNC admitted [it] demonstrated that, ‘the academic fraud was long-standing.'”

Now, though, the classes weren’t fraud. They were fine. The NCAA was astounded. The Committee on Infractions asked how this was possible.

“UNC [told] the panel that it was merely a ‘typo’ or oversight,” the NCAA wrote.

I didn't even think you could go to court over something like this. I mean wouldn't a court just say hey UNC you signed up to the NCAA and agreed to its infractions process, and if you don't like it you can leave whenever you like. Being a part of the NCAA isn't mandatory.

I'm no lawyer but from the beginning the threat of litigation was mentioned in numerous articles on the scandal.........some folks here think I am an apologist for UNC when in reality I was just repeating the position that Jay Bilas (that noted UNC fan) and a number of other authoritative voices had taken............I would be very upset with the school administrators involved in this stupid and embarrassing episode if I were a UNC student or graduate.
It has really cheapened the reputation of one of our great public universities.............

 

[dogged1]

I'm no lawyer but from the beginning the threat of litigation was mentioned in numerous articles on the scandal....some folks here think I am an apologist for UNC when in reality I was just repeating the position that Jay Bilas (that noted UNC fan) and a number of other authoritative voices had taken..I would be very upset with the school administrators involved in this stupid and embarrassing episode if I were a UNC student or graduate.
It has really cheapened the reputation of one of our great public universities...

Count me among those who thought you were an apologist for UNC. It did seem as though you were pleased by the outcome. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I'm no lawyer but from the beginning the threat of litigation was mentioned in numerous articles on the scandal....some folks here think I am an apologist for UNC when in reality I was just repeating the position that Jay Bilas (that noted UNC fan) and a number of other authoritative voices had taken..I would be very upset with the school administrators involved in this stupid and embarrassing episode if I were a UNC student or graduate.
It has really cheapened the reputation of one of our great public universities...

I'm in the same boat you are, and I felt similarly about the Penn State case, though that one to me was a lot more black and white in terms of being a criminal case versus anything related to athletics. In this case it feels a lot like UNC really went through a lot of trouble 20 years ago to make sure they had their alibi all lined up if the day ever came when their dirty little secret was outed.

 

[CocoHusky]

I'm no lawyer but from the beginning the threat of litigation was mentioned in numerous articles on the scandal....some folks here think I am an apologist for UNC when in reality I was just repeating the position that Jay Bilas (that noted UNC fan) and a number of other authoritative voices had taken..I would be very upset with the school administrators involved in this stupid and embarrassing episode if I were a UNC student or graduate. It has really cheapened the reputation of one of our great public universities...

Well, Jay Bilas is actually a lawyer and it is not UNC I though you were an apologist for, that would be the NCAA.
The NCAA had Memphis vacate wins because Derick Rose had a friend take his SATs.
Without a backbone, clearly the NCAA has none, when hundreds of students cheat at UNC the NCAA says: "well everyone had an equal opportunity to cheat therefore it's not cheating"=NCAA situational ethics. In one case the NCAA cares about the admission standards at Memphis and in another NCAA says we don't care about the "quality" of the curriculum at UNC for athletes. Clearly for the NCAA Memphis is not UNC. I wonder if UCONN would be closer to UNC or closer to Memphis in the eyes of the NCAA?
Derrick Rose Cheated, But Will Never Pay The Price

 

[Charliebball]

I'm in the same boat you are, and I felt similarly about the Penn State case, though that one to me was a lot more black and white in terms of being a criminal case versus anything related to athletics. In this case it feels a lot like UNC really went through a lot of trouble 20 years ago to make sure they had their alibi all lined up if the day ever came when their dirty little secret was outed.

It's possible that was their plan but I tend to think that it was orchestrated by those in the specific department along with several of the athletic tutors.........many non athletes took these classes..........I'm sure the word was out that they were an easy way to earn 3-4 credits and help your cumulative average to boot..........did the basketball coaches know? I have no idea.........there is early documentation stating that Roy Williams asked those in charge of helping the team with their studies not to recommend those classes..........that doesn't mean he didn't know but there was very little proof..........

 

[Charliebball]

Well, Jay Bilas is actually a lawyer and it is not UNC I though you were an apologist for, that would be the NCAA.
The NCAA had Memphis vacate wins because Derick Rose had a friend take his SATs.
Without a backbone, clearly the NCAA has none, when hundreds of students cheat at UNC the NCAA says: "well everyone had an equal opportunity to cheat therefore it's not cheating"=NCAA situational ethics. In one case the NCAA cares about the admission standards at Memphis and in another NCAA says we don't care about the "quality" of the curriculum at UNC for athletes. Clearly for the NCAA Memphis is not UNC. I wonder if UCONN would be closer to UNC or closer to Memphis in the eyes of the NCAA?
Derrick Rose Cheated, But Will Never Pay The Price

again, you fail to differentiate between a high school athlete taking SAT's as part of the recruiting process and the quality of classes for athletes already matriculating..........they both are bad but the SAT situation is clearly within the NCAA's purview, the classes not so much

 

[CocoHusky]

again, you fail to differentiate between a high school athlete taking SAT's as part of the recruiting process and the quality of classes for athletes already matriculating.....they both are bad but the SAT situation is clearly within the NCAA's purview, the classes not so much

Both are within the NCAA purview. The NCAA has a clearing house process for HS athletes to be eligible for the verification of SAT or ACT scores. . You can be accepted to a school and still not be eligible to play a sport. The NCAA has compliance officers at each university that ensures the NCAA minutia from the amount of hours a team practices or how much money a athletes can be given when acting as a host for a recruit & the 2.0 GPA eligibility.

 

[Charliebball]

Both are within the NCAA purview. The NCAA has a clearing house process for HS athletes to be eligible for the verification of SAT or ACT scores. . You can be accepted to a school and still not be eligible to play a sport. The NCAA has compliance officers at each university that ensures the NCAA minutia from the amount of hours a team practices or how much money a athletes can be given when acting as a host for a recruit & the 2.0 GPA eligibility.

Yes, I agree that the NCAA is the final arbiter when it comes to recruiting and even regarding the passing GPA's for college athletes but not for the quality of individual college courses..........if Katie Lou Samuelson signs up for a course on paper airplane building and the university has determined that this course is worth four credits and KLS only has to come to class one day a month to fly her airplanes, the NCAA can't do a damn thing about it..............that's it UNCLE!!!!!!!!!

 

[diggerfoot]

With apologies to JS for treading on his territory, law is often a matter of interpretation. My particular pet peeve is the Supreme Court interpreting that corporations are individuals, an oxymoron that has had atrocious consequences, but I digress.

No one debates that what happened at UNC was academic fraud. If only student athletes took the courses most likely anyone, even the NCAA, would interpret the purpose of academic fraud as eligibility fraud, making athletes eligible who otherwise would not be. Since some students took the "classes" who were not athletes, this now makes it a matter of interpretation whether the eligibility fraud was the intent. Several lines of evidence suggest that eligibility fraud was still the intent, with the nonathletes providing cover. There certainly is precedence for the NCAA sanctioning eligibility fraud, but from the evidence the NCAA interpreted that this was not conclusively the purpose of the academic fraud.

A matter of interpretation. Whether the interpretation by the NCAA was correct or what was the motivation for the interpretation is left for folks to ponder, or not. Yet had the NCAA interpreted from the evidence that eligibility fraud was the intent of the academic fraud, then that would have opened the door for NCAA sanctions.

 

[Charliebball]

that's the end of that............who's next!!!

Accrediting agency won't reopen investigation into UNC 'paper classes' :: WRAL.com