UNC Ruling: No NCAA Academic Rules Violation

[CocoHusky]

Duke's acceptance rate was 9.2% ...exactly how many members of the basketball team would be accepted under any other circumstances?

Almost all.
Let's not single out the Duke basketball team and assume that the entire team was admitted below the general Duke admissions standards.

 

[Charliebball]

Almost all.
Let's not single out the Duke basketball team and assume that the entire team was admitted below the general Duke admissions standards.

Agreed, later I think I said major sport athletes/students.............I know of three high school kids (2 girls,1 boy) with 4.4-4.7 honors GPA's, almost perfect SAT's,all sorts of student and real world extracurricular activities and they didn't get a sniff from Duke............not even early decision in two cases

 

[Charliebball]

UNC is the tip of the iceberg of academic fraud. I know for a fact assistant coaches writing papers for athletes, bogus correspondence courses, and credit for very questionable internships. And there is a lot more the NCAA is closing their eyes to.

the online classes are the new easy way to cheat......getting big in athletic circles...................

 

[ctfjr]

What I find truly amazing about this thread is that ANYONE is surprised by the ruling (non-ruling). 100% predictable

 

[Charliebball]

If you think North Carolina got off easy, you need to see the bigger picture

 

[JS]

Charlie, you've been so voluble in defense of this ruling that I'm curious.

Putting aside the rather stupefying standard applied -- phony course must be exclusively/primarily/whatever available to athletes -- and all the other stuff on the "legality" front, do you agree with the following from the SI article you cited?

UNC absolutely should be ashamed of what happened. North Carolina was not a victim of some media smear campaign. Widespread academic fraud occurred at the university for many years. This goes against the very purpose of any school’s existence. It is more offensive than most transgressions that bring heavy NCAA sanctions.
​

'Cause while looking at the sum total of your output in the thread -- including some of the everybody does it flavor and the seeming equation of steering toward "easy" courses with fraudulent ones -- I don't get much sense of any personal disgust at what happened.

 

[CL82]

Well now that all this academic mumbo-jumbo is out of the way, Sylvia can finally get back to recruiting her some players!

Yeah, I have to say that's a bright spot of sorts. It seemed like they were setting her up to be the fall guy.

 

[Charliebball]

Charlie, you've been so voluble in defense of this ruling that I'm curious.

Putting aside the rather stupefying standard applied -- phony course must be exclusively/primarily/whatever available to athletes -- and all the other stuff on the "legality" front, do you agree with the following from the SI article you cited?

UNC absolutely should be ashamed of what happened. North Carolina was not a victim of some media smear campaign. Widespread academic fraud occurred at the university for many years. This goes against the very purpose of any school’s existence. It is more offensive than most transgressions that bring heavy NCAA sanctions.
​

'Cause while looking at the sum total of your output in the thread -- including some of the everybody does it flavor and the seeming equation of steering toward "easy" courses with fraudulent ones -- I don't get much sense of any personal disgust at what happened.

I believe that athletes are being taken advantage of by athletic departments and school administrators who are willing to do practically anything to field a winning team..........almost every college including Ivy League schools force admissions departments to admit clearly inferior students just because they can run faster or jump higher............how can these student athletes be expected to get a decent education and spend hours daily practicing their sport when they are offered mostly easy classes in subjects that won't help them in the real world and with extensive assistance from tutors just to get a passing grade..............the NCAA's job has been designed by the schools to look the other way when it comes to the education of the athletes...........it's job is to try to keep all of the cheating, bribing etc that goes on in recruiting as quiet as possible and to spank any school that steps over the line............we need a whole new system where athletes get a cut of the corporate profits, just like the school and the overpaid coaches..............schools should guarantee that student athletes can return to the classroom at any time to earn a proper degree once the shine of the spotlight is on the next big star...........

 

[Beemer]

As I said in the MBB thread, the NCAA looked for a way not to do anything and they found it. It is like a criminal getting away with it on a technicality.

Opposing fans need to boo the absolute **** out of UNC at every game for the entire 60 minutes. Make it a living hell for the B******ds in Blue.

 

[Beemer]

Yeah, I have to say that's a bright spot of sorts. It seemed like they were setting her up to be the fall guy.

I thought the same thing and it really ****ed me off .

 

[triaddukefan]

Opposing fans need to boo the absolute **** out of UNC at every game for the entire 60 minutes. Make it a living hell for the B******ds in Blue.

Wow.... aren't you a bit harsh

 

[Charliebball]

Wow.... aren't you a bit harsh

isn't that the requisite behavior for the Duke student section?............

 

[HoopsFan21]

ACC = All Cheaters Conference. You've got UNC and its fake classes, Louisville and its hookers, the U need I say more, Free Shoes University where they protect rapist quarterbacks among other transgressions, and ND where they're willing to sacrifice a kid's life to videotape practice in high winds. That's one hell of a conference!

 

[Beemer]

Wow.... aren't you a bit harsh

No.

UNC has been allowed by the NCAA to get away with cheating. Both should be reminded of their despicable behavior at every opportunity.

 

[CL82]

ACC = All Cheaters Conference. You've got UNC and its fake classes, Louisville and its hookers, the U need I say more, Free Shoes University where they protect rapist quarterbacks among other transgressions, and ND where they're willing to sacrifice a kid's life to videotape practice in high winds. That's one hell of a conference!

You forgot Syracuse's decade long triple scandal involving illegal drug, illegal payments and academic fraud. They fit right in with the rest of them.

 

[Charliebball]

You forgot Syracuse's decade long triple scandal involving illegal drug, illegal payments and academic fraud. They fit right in with the rest of them.

unfortunately the teams your listing are just the ones that got caught.............most people in the know will tell you that these same activities run rampant in all of the major conferences..........there are very, very few clean programs.............if you want to find them look at the bottom of the standings...............

 

[CL82]

unfortunately the teams your listing are just the ones that got caught...most people in the know will tell you that these same activities run rampant in all of the major conferences.....there are very, very few clean programs...if you want to find them look at the bottom of the standings.....

Yeah, I'm calling BS. The 'but everyone does it' defense didn't work with your Mom when you were in middle school. It still doesn't work now.

 

[triaddukefan]

No.

UNC has been allowed by the NCAA to get away with cheating. Both should be reminded of their despicable behavior at every opportunity.

Im sure NC State and Duke fans will remind them.... perhaps UVA fans as well..... not sure about other fanbases. As for me....well..... I'll boo the UNC women when they come to Durham for a few seconds......... my vocal chords arent built for long term booing though. I'll sneer at them a few times ........ thats about the best I can do in those terms.

However.... if you want me to toss a few eggs at my neighbor's UNC mailbox.... or spit on some UNC merchandise when I'm in the store.......... then I may be of service

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

don't worry Kentucky's day is coming...again.....oh and South Carolina's too if Martin's former assistant coach spills the beans..

If he did anything while here he didn't have much to show for it - 1 NCAAT appearance since 2005.

 

[UConnCat]

I'm sure the secretary graded the papers of athletes and non-athletes. . .

 

[Charliebball]

If he did anything while here he didn't have much to show for it - 1 NCAAT appearance since 2005.

my understanding is he was charged for actions at both South Carolina and it his current school................

 

[Charliebball]

here's my final contribution to this thread:

David Glenn on NCAA-UNC: "The NCAA must point to specific bylaws" - ACCSports.com

 

[BlueDolphin]

ACC = All Cheaters Conference. You've got UNC and its fake classes, Louisville and its hookers, the U need I say more, Free Shoes University where they protect rapist quarterbacks among other transgressions, and ND where they're willing to sacrifice a kid's life to videotape practice in high winds. That's one hell of a conference!

Whatever happened to that Miami scandal where players received money, whores & dope? The NCAA screwed up the investigation & then just seemed to drop it. Man, talk about taking a dive!

 

[Icebear]

Wow.... aren't you a bit harsh

Hey, Duke fans are going to do that anyway. Just cheer, “Cheaters, cheaters.”

 

[CL82]

here's my final contribution to this thread:

David Glenn on NCAA-UNC: "The NCAA must point to specific bylaws" - ACCSports.com

14.02 Definitions and Applications.
14.02.1 Academic Misconduct—Post-Enrollment. All institutional staff members and student-athletes are expected to act with honesty and integrity in all academic matters.

I respectfully suggest that giving grades based upon what is needed for an athlete to remain eligibility for a no show, one paper course in which the only submission is not graded by an education and not even read by a secretary prior to grading is a pretty fair indicator of institutional staff not acting "with honesty and integrity in all academic matters."

FWIW quite a few of the sections in the by-laws regarding academics have been modified since the NCAA has become aware of the UNC issue. I'd be curious to see just how they read back when UNC embarked on this two decade long course of academic fraud.

 

[dogged1]

here's my final contribution to this thread:

David Glenn on NCAA-UNC: "The NCAA must point to specific bylaws" - ACCSports.com

When someone frames an argument by stating that you must accept his premise in order to have an intelligent opinion, then he is by extension calling anyone who disagrees with him unintelligent.
To quote the author:
"That’s the second thing you must understand to have an intelligent opinion about this stuff."
So here's my unintelligent response. The NCAA has punished many of it's members for far lesser offenses and didn't need to cite specific bylaws other than lack of institutional controls. They chose not to punish UNC because, 1. It's UNC and 2. they are cowards.
While there is merit to the idea that the NCAA does not belong in the business of judging academic standards, what UNC did is so egregious, so undermines the the ideals of college athletics that it requires punishment. It is unfortunately not surprising that the NCAA took the easy way out by framing it as a legal issue, essentially saying they had no jurisdiction in the matter. Perhaps that is so, but it never stopped them before.

 

[Charliebball]

When someone frames an argument by stating that you must accept his premise in order to have an intelligent opinion, then he is by extension calling anyone who disagrees with him unintelligent.
To quote the author:
"That’s the second thing you must understand to have an intelligent opinion about this stuff."
So here's my unintelligent response. The NCAA has punished many of it's members for far lesser offenses and didn't need to cite specific bylaws other than lack of institutional controls. They chose not to punish UNC because, 1. It's UNC and 2. they are cowards.
While there is merit to the idea that the NCAA does not belong in the business of judging academic standards, what UNC did is so egregious, so undermines the the ideals of college athletics that it requires punishment. It is unfortunately not surprising that the NCAA took the easy way out by framing it as a legal issue, essentially saying they had no jurisdiction in the matter. Perhaps that is so, but it never stopped them before.

the Penn State debacle was the straw that broke the camel's back when it came to the NCAA treading in areas of limited or no jurisdiction...........you see they have no problem going after recruiting violations because that is clearly a part of their mission.............unless they try to push into academic areas (which they won't because schools don't want them to) you will likely see other similar cases come to light in which they will defer to the educational organizations that oversee college activities

 

[CocoHusky]

the Penn State debacle was the straw that broke the camel's back when it came to the NCAA treading in areas of limited or no jurisdiction......you see they have no problem going after recruiting violations because that is clearly a part of their mission...unless they try to push into academic areas (which they won't because schools don't want them to) you will likely see other similar cases come to light in which they will defer to the educational organizations that oversee college activities

The NCAA cannot have it both ways. The NCAA sets a minimum GPA to determine athletic eligibility. Why set a standard at all, if NCAA is going to turn right around and not care how the academic institution achieves the standard?

 

[Charliebball]

The NCAA cannot have it both ways. The NCAA sets a minimum GPA to determine athletic eligibility. Why set a standard at all if you are going to turn right around and not care the academic institution achieves the standard?

they may set the number but they don't make judgments about individual class quality.........that academic oversight
is the purview of accreditation organizations

 

[CL82]

they may set the number but they don't make judgments about individual class quality....that academic oversight
is the purview of accreditation organizations

14.02.1 Academic Misconduct—Post-Enrollment. All institutional staff members and student-athletes are expected to act with honesty and integrity in all academic matters.