UNC Investigation

[Geosfun]

Has the NCAA given UNC a pass on all of their horrendous infractions?
Let's remind Emmert. Anyone have his email address?

 

[VAUConnFan]

There is supposed to be a ruling this spring. With the men's team contending, the decision will not be made before the basketballs season ends, more than likely after the baseball season ends.

 

[Geosfun]

How thoughtful and accommodating of the NCAA to allow Sir Roy to end his season without interruption.Think they'd extend the same consideration to a UConn?

 

[billnaples]

Has the NCAA given UNC a pass on all of their horrendous infractions?
Let's remind Emmert. Anyone have his email address?

I wish I knew Mark Emmert so I could make more than a supposition about his fairness, objectivity, and motives surrounding the UNC case. Here is what I think we know in broad strokes. UNC has admitted to the fraud of bogus courses over an 18 year period in which more then 3000 students, nearly half of whom were UNC athletes, were credited with taking the fake classes. The "investigation" has now been ongoing for more than what 5 years. Slowed by new revelations. Now remember that the NCAA pounded Penn. St. before the case against Sandusky even went to trial. So why not hit UNC while the added issues are vetted? Oh, sorry, forgot. This is the most highly regarded UNC. And we wait. Not only should they not be in the mix for the ACC title and the national title perhaps they should not be playing much of anything. They are in a word a disgrace!

 

[OldAlum]

And this isn't an issue of sex, so the NCAA doesn't feel the urgency. I would have thought that they would have acted before a program that they know they will have to punish for being corrupt wins any kind of title! But no...

 

[Harry Mangurian]

It is NOT about "high regard" for UNC. It is about money. The NCAA makes big bucks because of the UNC fan base (sold out football and BB) and TV dollars for ACC games in general. They have not yet figured out how to give UNC a love tap that will not damage that revenue flow. If UCONN had a big bucks football program and lunatic fans, they would get the same "Please Pass GO." I live in NC and I can tell you that the loyalty of North Carolina residents goes far beyond what we saw in CT.
The Boneyarder's view of UCONN fans is warped by our extreme loyalty to the women. You ain't seen nothing until you go to church and they major social topic is the last or the next game. This includes folks who have never had any connection to UNC except paying taxes (or not) to support it. Even poor people (of which there are many) have their UNC clothing.

 

[Checkmate]

on a related note - former Clemson basketball star / NBA player Eldon Campbell

When asked if he earned a degree (from Clemson) he said "no but they gave me one anyway"

http://blog.gaiam.com/quotes/authors/elden-campbell

Academic fraud is rampant. I know for a fact that assistant basketball coaches write papers for their players. There are bogus correspondence courses. Student athletes are taking classes and getting credit for classes at schools they do not play for. (not transfer credits)

I am not defending UNC, however the NCAA knows they are the tip of the iceberg.

 

[huskiemaniac]

And yet Uconn men were unfairly punished for grades...

 

[uconnfan68]

And yet Uconn men were unfairly punished for grades...

Twice, once retroactively. Smh

 

[HoopsFan21]

Is there much of a difference between what UNC did versus schools that allow players to barely have a major? It's a fine line in my opinion the way schools go out of their way to make it as easy as possible to take in kids who are for all purposes semi-professionals just attending college until they can join their real job (WNBA, NBA, NFL, etc.). Not that I condone any of it, but I don't think the UNC thing is an isolated case. Perhaps the scale of it is unprecedented.

 

[Harry Mangurian]

Is there much of a difference between what UNC did versus schools that allow players to barely have a major? It's a fine line in my opinion the way schools go out of their way to make it as easy as possible to take in kids who are for all purposes semi-professionals just attending college until they can join their real job (WNBA, NBA, NFL, etc.). Not that I condone any of it, but I don't think the UNC thing is an isolated case. Perhaps the scale of it is unprecedented.

There is a big difference between having easy courses and having courses that do not exist (as in the UNC case).
I haven't seen another case that compares. Not only was it fraud and conspiracy, but it made any team measure of academic
achievement laughable.

 

[CL82]

And yet Uconn men were unfairly punished for grades...

Well we made the mistake of actually having them attend real classes so....

The idea that UNC could say at the start of the season to NCAA, yeah we committed academic fraud at an institutional level for two decades, but your investigation didn't catch all of it so let us slide this year and we'll keep the investigation going is mind boggling to me. I am sure the fact that they have a shot at the national title in Men's basketball wasn't the motivation for the extended delay, just a desire for a compete investigation.

 

[Uhuru]

This thread is unfair to the UNC basketball majors. How do you expect them to compete for an NCAA championship if they have to attend classes?

 

[billnaples]

Academic fraud is rampant. I know for a fact that assistant basketball coaches write papers for their players. There are bogus correspondence courses. Student athletes are taking classes and getting credit for classes at schools they do not play for. (not transfer credits).

I am not defending UNC, however the NCAA knows they are the tip of the iceberg.[/QUOTE]
If as you state you know something "for a fact" that implies to me that you have proof of what you allege. And if that is the case then through whatever means necessary you should be providing the proof to the NCAA and make public the charges against whomever wrote papers or did the work for an athlete. If you have the goods and don't do anything with it then you are just as guilty after the fact as those who committed the act.

 

[uconnfan68]

Is there much of a difference between what UNC did versus schools that allow players to barely have a major? It's a fine line in my opinion the way schools go out of their way to make it as easy as possible to take in kids who are for all purposes semi-professionals just attending college until they can join their real job (WNBA, NBA, NFL, etc.). Not that I condone any of it, but I don't think the UNC thing is an isolated case. Perhaps the scale of it is unprecedented.

It isn't. Lots of grads that can't read should be the tipoff.

 

[Uconnrick]

It isn't. Lots of grads that can't read should be the tipoff.

My daughter's friend dated a Xavier player a few years ago. He was essentiality illiterate. She had to read the menu to him when they went out to dinner.
I always hoped this was an isolated incident but perhaps it's not.

 

[sivad40]

It is NOT about "high regard" for UNC. It is about money. The NCAA makes big bucks because of the UNC fan base (sold out football and BB) and TV dollars for ACC games in general. They have not yet figured out how to give UNC a love tap that will not damage that revenue flow. If UCONN had a big bucks football program and lunatic fans, they would get the same "Please Pass GO." I live in NC and I can tell you that the loyalty of North Carolina residents goes far beyond what we saw in CT.
The Boneyarder's view of UCONN fans is warped by our extreme loyalty to the women. You ain't seen nothing until you go to church and they major social topic is the last or the next game. This includes folks who have never had any connection to UNC except paying taxes (or not) to support it. Even poor people (of which there are many) have their UNC clothing.

UNC will sellout their basketball but they don't sellout for football. The football only had only loss for most of last season and they had to give tickets away just to get people to come.

 

[UcMiami]

It is NOT about "high regard" for UNC. It is about money. The NCAA makes big bucks because of the UNC fan base (sold out football and BB) and TV dollars for ACC games in general. They have not yet figured out how to give UNC a love tap that will not damage that revenue flow. If UCONN had a big bucks football program and lunatic fans, they would get the same "Please Pass GO." I live in NC and I can tell you that the loyalty of North Carolina residents goes far beyond what we saw in CT.
The Boneyarder's view of UCONN fans is warped by our extreme loyalty to the women. You ain't seen nothing until you go to church and they major social topic is the last or the next game. This includes folks who have never had any connection to UNC except paying taxes (or not) to support it. Even poor people (of which there are many) have their UNC clothing.

Doesn't quite wash seeing as PSU is a bigger money spinner than UNC and the NCAA had to actually invent rules in order for them to intervene in that case.

UNC was able to spin this thing out longer this past year by, in their response to the NCAA investigation, finding new infractions to report that in effect restarted the process. Not sure if they are just hoping that the longer it drags on the less publicity it will generate or what. Maybe they are hoping the P5 secede from the NCAA completely and they start with a fresh slate under some new authority?

 

[Harry Mangurian]

UNC will sellout their basketball but they don't sellout for football. The football only had only loss for most of last season and they had to give tickets away just to get people to come.

I went to a game against a very minor school. There were some, but not many empty seats. They also have a "super-seat" end zone where they serve booze etc.
(they cleverly made two runways between the end zone and the rest of the stadium to get around the terms of the gift that built the stadium, which stated - no booze allowed. So, technically, the end zone seats are not part of the stadium. )


p.s. The Penn state situation was entirely different. Ignoring multiple child molestations (a crime) was not in the control of the NCAA. They HAD to act.
In the UNC case, I haven't heard of anything illegal, just blatantly unethical and immoral.

 

[uconnfan68]

My daughter's friend dated a Xavier player a few years ago. He was essentiality illiterate. She had to read the menu to him when they went out to dinner.
I always hoped this was an isolated incident but perhaps it's not.

Surprised to hear Xavier... rampant in SEC, and Big 12.

 

[UcMiami]

I went to a game against a very minor school. There were some, but not many empty seats. They also have a "super-seat" end zone where they serve booze etc.
(they cleverly made two runways between the end zone and the rest of the stadium to get around the terms of the gift that built the stadium, which stated - no booze allowed. So, technically, the end zone seats are not part of the stadium. )


p.s. The Penn state situation was entirely different. Ignoring multiple child molestations (a crime) was not in the control of the NCAA. They HAD to act.
In the UNC case, I haven't heard of anything illegal, just blatantly unethical and immoral.

Don't want to get into the whole PSU issue again, but the NCAA has a specific charter that deals with athletic competition and all the things that go into creating a level field, including recruiting, academics, sportsmanship, and benefits. It specifically does not deal with campus life, or criminal actions by employees or students that do not effect the athletes or the competition. Those are reserved to the schools themselves and various levels of law enforcement. They have not to my knowledge ever investigated or sanctioned a school before or since for crimes committed by athletes or coaches unless those crimes had a direct effect on the areas of athletic competition or the related areas I mentioned above.
The scandal with prostitution that broke this year is under the purview of the NCAA because it involved both illegal benefits to current athletes and recruiting violations, and not because prostitution is a criminal activity.
Yes - the NCAA got involved in the PSU situation because it was horrendous and it was good 'PR' to jump in and to be seen to be outraged. They acted pre-emptively and perhaps too swiftly as not everything that was alleged to have occurred has in fact proven out (in terms of the Universities culpability), and they have quietly reduced most of the sanctions imposed. And they had to concoct a rationale for the sanctions in the first place - PSU was not in a position to protest given the nature of the public outrage.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Don't want to get into the whole PSU issue again, but the NCAA has a specific charter that deals with athletic competition and all the things that go into creating a level field, including recruiting, academics, sportsmanship, and benefits. It specifically does not deal with campus life, or criminal actions by employees or students that do not effect the athletes or the competition. Those are reserved to the schools themselves and various levels of law enforcement. They have not to my knowledge ever investigated or sanctioned a school before or since for crimes committed by athletes or coaches unless those crimes had a direct effect on the areas of athletic competition or the related areas I mentioned above.
The scandal with prostitution that broke this year is under the purview of the NCAA because it involved both illegal benefits to current athletes and recruiting violations, and not because prostitution is a criminal activity.
Yes - the NCAA got involved in the PSU situation because it was horrendous and it was good 'PR' to jump in and to be seen to be outraged. They acted pre-emptively and perhaps too swiftly as not everything that was alleged to have occurred has in fact proven out (in terms of the Universities culpability), and they have quietly reduced most of the sanctions imposed. And they had to concoct a rationale for the sanctions in the first place - PSU was not in a position to protest given the nature of the public outrage.

The PSU sanctions were dropped a long time ago.

 

[billnaples]

p.s. The Penn state situation was entirely different. Ignoring multiple child molestations (a crime) was not in the control of the NCAA. They HAD to act.
In the UNC case, I haven't heard of anything illegal, just blatantly unethical and immoral.

At no time did I suggest that the NCAA was or should have been in control of the Sandusky case. But I will repeat that the NCAA acted after Sandusky had been arrested as best I recall but well before the legal process had been completed. As best I understood the PSU case none of the criminal charges involved violations of NCAA rules and regulations as they pertain to athletics. As such I am not even certain that the NCAA had the right let alone the duty to hammer PSU before the facts emerged from the criminal case. The UNC case was a direct affront to more NCAA rules than I care to count and went to phony student eligibility in several sports. It went on for 18 years. It's been near 5 years since it was uncovered yet aside a few minor self imposed penalties they have thus far escaped. UConn Men's BB suffered a harsher penalty because why? Their kids went to class and failed.

 

[VAUConnFan]

At no time did I suggest that the NCAA was or should have been in control of the Sandusky case. But I will repeat that the NCAA acted after Sandusky had been arrested as best I recall but well before the legal process had been completed. As best I understood the PSU case none of the criminal charges involved violations of NCAA rules and regulations as they pertain to athletics. As such I am not even certain that the NCAA had the right let alone the duty to hammer PSU before the facts emerged from the criminal case. The UNC case was a direct affront to more NCAA rules than I care to count and went to phony student eligibility in several sports. It went on for 18 years. It's been near 5 years since it was uncovered yet aside a few minor self imposed penalties they have thus far escaped. UConn Men's BB suffered a harsher penalty because why? Their kids went to class and failed.

While the fact is not being totally discounted, it is probably more a function of the men not taking enough credits to graduate in a specified period of time. Believed because remaining eligible requires progress toward a degree and a minimum GPA as determined by the institution's standards as it is applied to every student in the school.

(Thought my initial response too murky, so grabbed some facts)
In Division I, student-athletes must complete 40 percent of the coursework required for a degree by the end of their second year. They must complete 60 percent by the end of their third year and 80 percent by the end of their fourth year. Student-athletes are allowed five years to graduate while receiving athletically related financial aid. All Division I student-athletes must earn at least six credit hours each term to be eligible for the following term and must meet minimum grade-point average requirements that are related to an institution’s own GPA standards for graduation.


Institutions in all divisions must determine and certify the academic eligibility of each student-athlete who represents the school on the field of play. Institutions are responsible for withholding academically ineligible student-athletes from competition.

 

[billnaples]

While the fact is not being totally discounted, it is probably more a function of the men not taking enough credits to graduate in a specified period of time. Believed because remaining eligible requires progress toward a degree and a minimum GPA as determined by the institution's standards as it is applied to every student in the school.

(Thought my initial response too murky, so grabbed some facts)
In Division I, student-athletes must complete 40 percent of the coursework required for a degree by the end of their second year. They must complete 60 percent by the end of their third year and 80 percent by the end of their fourth year. Student-athletes are allowed five years to graduate while receiving athletically related financial aid. All Division I student-athletes must earn at least six credit hours each term to be eligible for the following term and must meet minimum grade-point average requirements that are related to an institution’s own GPA standards for graduation.


Institutions in all divisions must determine and certify the academic eligibility of each student-athlete who represents the school on the field of play. Institutions are responsible for withholding academically ineligible student-athletes from competition.

The specifics of why UConn's APR was below the standard imposed by the NCAA with all due respect is at best irrelevant and at the least immaterial to the question at hand. The UConn people attended legitimate classes (or not), turned in papers (or not), took tests (or not) and received grades which did not get enough respect under the NCAA formula, whatever that was. There was never a question of phony classes, non existent courses, etc. such as went on at UNC. And I will reiterate that no student athletes gained any eligibility as a result of what went on at PSU. And the NCAA probably should not have been involved in that case since there were as I recall no NCAA rules or regulations that were broken by PSU.