UNC-Chapel Hill Gets Probation From Its Accrediting Agency

[Kibitzer]

The combination of ongoing investigations and looming punishments by governing authorities begs the question: Were these factors identified by Diamond DeShields (among others) and, if so, did they motivate her/their transfer from UNC?

 

[xHunt3r]

You think that forcing all of the many students at UNC, the vast majority of whom had nothing to do with the athletic department and have taken their (real) classes with integrity, to radically change their plans for getting their education is the reasonable response?

Athletes were not the only ones to take these "paper" classes... Over 3,000 students took these classes, about half were athletes. 3,000 is a LOT of fraudulent degrees that UNC has handed out over 2 decades. 3,000 students.... 20 years. Yes, UNC should lose it accreditation... and yes it will really suck for students that are going/planned to go to UNC.

 

[Icebear]

I actually tried to remove it when I realized that Sylvia's grammar while a bit convoluted was correct.
Couldn't get my editing mechanism to work
Was going to delete and start agin but…hey….

I just thought you were sic.

 

[Icebear]

Athletes were not the only ones to take these "paper" classes... Over 3,000 students took these classes, about half were athletes. 3,000 is a LOT of fraudulent degrees that UNC has handed out over 2 decades. 3,000 students.... 20 years. Yes, UNC should lose it accreditation... and yes it will really suck for students that are going/planned to go to UNC.

Yes, but it started with the athletes and then word got out.

 

[CL82]

You think that forcing all of the many students at UNC, the vast majority of whom had nothing to do with the athletic department and have taken their (real) classes with integrity, to radically change their plans for getting their education is the reasonable response?

Do you think an accrediting agency essentially looking the other way after two decades of academic fraud is a reasonable response?

 

[Beemer]

I understand that yanking the university's accreditation would hurt students who had nothing to do with this fraud. However given the scope of the fraud and how long it went on UNC deserves serious punishment. Otherwise it will happen again, both at UNC and other schools who will see that academic fraud can go unpunished.

 

[UcMiami]

You think that forcing all of the many students at UNC, the vast majority of whom had nothing to do with the athletic department and have taken their (real) classes with integrity, to radically change their plans for getting their education is the reasonable response?

That is always the response to issues of discipline including NCAA sanctions that hit after the players who earned them are long gone and the poor athletes that had nothing to do with the issue get penalized. In effect we create a 'too big to fail' situation in academia - but the fact is UNC did fail. They sold their soul to big time athletics and tarnished their whole reason for existence. And it was not just the Afro studies department and the athletic department, but the admissions department, the academic support department (whatever it is called), the dean of the various schools involved with the 'interdisciplinary' nature of Afro studies, the administration that may have 'deniability' but ignored all the warning and reacted to their whistle blower in typical corporate fashion by firing her, etc. They are a failed institution.

And what I find so sick in this situation is that in order to protect their cash cow athletics, they are publicly trying to place all the blame on their real reason for existence - their academic integrity. They are saying this whole scandal had nothing to do with athletics, it was just us committing massive academic fraud for the fun of it because, really, does anybody care about our academic integrity - as long as the students pay, we'll give them whatever grades they want.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I understand that yanking the university's accreditation would hurt students who had nothing to do with this fraud. However given the scope of the fraud and how long it went on UNC deserves serious punishment. Otherwise it will happen again, both at UNC and other schools who will see that academic fraud can go unpunished.

I'm all for serious punishment. I'm not for affecting the grades of well north of 100,000 students who likely did absolutely nothing wrong and were completely unaware that there was scandal going on.

I'm not even sure I'm all that concerned about the non-athlete that took one phony course being punished, although I have no problem with it happening, either. But I absolutely do agree that there needs to be strict punishment, it just isn't that obvious what it should be (academically). Athletically, some hammer dropping is in order.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Athletes were not the only ones to take these "paper" classes... Over 3,000 students took these classes, about half were athletes. 3,000 is a LOT of fraudulent degrees that UNC has handed out over 2 decades. 3,000 students.... 20 years. Yes, UNC should lose it accreditation... and yes it will really suck for students that are going/planned to go to UNC.

While it may suck for current students to pay for the transgressions of the past, they are not without redress. It's called the law because UNC's past fraud may well be actionable, particularly if accreditation is removed. How will the value of a UNC degree be affected? Surely courts can award those plus punitive damages.

 

[msf22b]

The combination of ongoing investigations and looming punishments by governing authorities begs the question: Were these factors identified by Diamond DeShields (among others) and, if so, did they motivate her/their transfer from UNC?

I bet.

 

[UcMiami]

Just one point here - probation for a year is not quite a slap on the wrist - UNC during this year will need to prove that it has correct all the issues in the probation letter, and if it does not, the hammer could fall. Not likely, but it is not quite the one year penalty that is handed down by say the NCAA that is just a limited time suspension. During a probation period with an accrediting agency their are a number of hoops that have to be jumped through to lift the probation at the end of the term.

I do think pulling the accreditation of the school is probably a step too far, and I am not sure the agency has the authority to impose any serious conditions relative to athletics. It would be nice if the school itself made some drastic self disciplining moves, but they seem to be in denial.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Just one point here - probation for a year is not quite a slap on the wrist - UNC during this year will need to prove that it has correct all the issues in the probation letter, and if it does not, the hammer could fall. Not likely, but it is not quite the one year penalty that is handed down by say the NCAA that is just a limited time suspension. During a probation period with an accrediting agency their are a number of hoops that have to be jumped through to lift the probation at the end of the term.

I do think pulling the accreditation of the school is probably a step too far, and I am not sure the agency has the authority to impose any serious conditions relative to athletics. It would be nice if the school itself made some drastic self disciplining moves, but they seem to be in denial.

I think people should be willing to settle for the entire faculty, led by the Pres. and the Board, to walk into the sport arena of their choice, butt naked, flagellating themselves like medieval monks. I think that would more than make up for the wrong done and serve as a stern warning for the future. What do you think? Have I hit the right compromise between crime and punishment? Didn't a Russian fellow say something about that? Sorry, folks, a Monty Python devotee am I!

 

[ndmb]

Do you think an accrediting agency essentially looking the other way after two decades of academic fraud is a reasonable response?

Yes. This is an athletic issue, more than an academic issue. Virtually every school in the NCAA admits athletes they wouldn't have accepted otherwise and most intentionally set up their athletes with easier classes, so I'm skeptical that the academic program that athletes go through is in any way equivalent to what most students go through anyways. I think that the NCAA is responsible for the sanctions here, and I think they should be severe. But I don't think you directly punish 20,000 undergrads for something they had nothing to do with.

 

[CL82]

Yes. This is an athletic issue, more than an academic issue. Virtually every school in the NCAA admits athletes they wouldn't have accepted otherwise and most intentionally set up their athletes with easier classes, so I'm skeptical that the academic program that athletes go through is in any way equivalent to what most students go through anyways. I think that the NCAA is responsible for the sanctions here, and I think they should be severe. But I don't think you directly punish 20,000 undergrads for something they had nothing to do with.

Academic fraud is an academic issue.

 

[BigBird]

Just one point here - probation for a year is not quite a slap on the wrist - UNC during this year will need to prove that it has correct all the issues in the probation letter, and if it does not, the hammer could fall.

Agreed. I am fairly familiar with college and university acceditation, having worked on several iterations of it at my former school. The UNC admins are going to be even busier now, with a myriad of mea culpa reports, ongoing communications, and evidence gathering projects. The goal of this "homework" (insert sarcasm here) is to ensure, document and prove that these offenses cannot reoccur at UNC. From a board of trustees point of view, if this means terminating those who should have known of the scandal, then that will likely happen too. Boards exist to ensure the continued presence of the university AND its position in higher ed. And higher-level admins serve at the pleasure of the board. Most admins do not have "administrative tenure," and it wouldn't likely rescue them here even if they did.

I understand why casual observers might be led to think that accreditors are softies who have only the ability to critique, but not reform an institution. But such a view is, in my limited experience, quite incorrect. UNC is very much on notice that it must either get it right, or get "the hammer."

 

[DobbsRover2]

Yes, UNC should have a hammer dropped that has the precision to have maximum impact where it deserves to be felt. The problem with the "innocents will suffer" complaint is that though indeed many thousands of students totally removed from this mess will be dragged in, that has unfortunately been the state of affairs at PSU or USC or wherever these scandals occur and there is no way to avoid it in a centralized institution. The answer is that the punishment should be directed at the specific agency that facilitated the issues while trying to avoid too much harm to students-faculty who were not involved with the dirty dealings. With UNC, however, the culpability runs pretty broadly beyond the football\basketball teams and some academic departments to include an administration that was blind and then tried to cover up and deny everything for many years. Even with precise punishment for the culprits at UNC, there is now way around the fact that much of the campus will suffer tough restrictions because the stench goes pretty much up to the top.