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UNC Academic Scandal- Recent Stuff

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FAIRTIDES

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FAIRTIDES said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/sports/as-for-athletes-but-charges-of-tar-heel-fraud.html?src=recg

From 12/31/13 New York Times.

Our guys fail real courses and UCONN get punished. While I didn't like the ex post facto nature of the 2nd punishment, I can't argue with the fact that something was deserved.

I have a hard time believing that pure academic fraud is less serious than an "F" in a real course. in the eyes of the NCAA.
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The punishment we received was pure and simple payback by Mark Emmert for dealings with Calhoun and others while he was the Provost at UCONN. It is well know he hates Calhoun's guts. I know his wife Delaine made it well known at Windham Middle School Christmas parties (she was a teacher there when Emmert was Provost at UCONN), heard it with my own ears attending the functions with my ex-wife who was also a teacher at the school.
 
This is one of the things that absolutely drives me nuts about the NCAA. UCONN gets a postseason ban for APR while UNC operated fake classes and got a slap on the wrist. The NCAA picks and chooses their battles.
 
Dooley said:
This is one of the things that absolutely drives me nuts about the NCAA. UCONN gets a postseason ban for APR while UNC operated fake classes and got a slap on the wrist. The NCAA picks and chooses their battles.
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See my post above Dooley..this was all about a personal vendetta for Emmert....nothing more nothing less.
 
FAIRTIDES said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/sports/as-for-athletes-but-charges-of-tar-heel-fraud.html?src=recg

From 12/31/13 New York Times.

Our guys fail real courses and UCONN get punished. While I didn't like the ex post facto nature of the 2nd punishment, I can't argue with the fact that something was deserved.

I have a hard time believing that pure academic fraud is less serious than an "F" in a real course. in the eyes of the NCAA.
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Did our guys fail real courses? Does APR have anything to do with failing real courses?
 
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FAIRTIDES said:
OK. Where am I incorrect?
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It doesn't come down to failing. Not necessarily. But the APR encourages fraud courses since it takes away any incentive to graduate and/or advance in your major. The APR gives each player 1 point for returning to school, and 1 point for remaining eligible. So you're docked a point for not returning to school unless you go pro. If you transfer, as many UConn players did, you must maintain a 2.6 GPA. That's above failing. But for players still at the university, that does mean you are eligible to play, so there is no APR hit. The bad part of APR in this case is that no major at the university will allow you to earn a degree if your GPA is low.

This basically means that every basketball player can avoid the APR hit by taking intersession courses, as long as they don't transfer.

UConn was essentially dinged for kids transferring with a sub 2.6 GPA.
 
upstater said:
It doesn't come down to failing. Not necessarily. But the APR encourages fraud courses since it takes away any incentive to graduate and/or advance in your major. The APR gives each player 1 point for returning to school, and 1 point for remaining eligible. So you're docked a point for not returning to school unless you go pro. If you transfer, as many UConn players did, you must maintain a 2.6 GPA. That's above failing. But for players still at the university, that does mean you are eligible to play, so there is no APR hit. The bad part of APR in this case is that no major at the university will allow you to earn a degree if your GPA is low.

This basically means that every basketball player can avoid the APR hit by taking intersession courses, as long as they don't transfer.

UConn was essentially dinged for kids transferring with a sub 2.6 GPA.
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That is where I find the double standard for schools like Kentucky where they have so may 1 and done's....those kids don't count against the APR.
 
I don't think anyone believes this guy did it alone.

Why would he do it alone?

Makes no sense.

This was a much bigger scandal which may come out in court.

And if he doesn't, you wonder if he's getting paid to hush it up.

I'm sure all the faculty at UNC appreciate having all this extra scrutiny because of the athletic department.

The idea that perusing course syllabi guarantees that a course is legitimate is laughable at best. Not only that, but there are now electronic courses and MOOCs that these athletes can now sign up for. And these courses do NOT meet.
 
upstater said:
It doesn't come down to failing. Not necessarily. But the APR encourages fraud courses since it takes away any incentive to graduate and/or advance in your major. The APR gives each player 1 point for returning to school, and 1 point for remaining eligible. So you're docked a point for not returning to school unless you go pro. If you transfer, as many UConn players did, you must maintain a 2.6 GPA. That's above failing. But for players still at the university, that does mean you are eligible to play, so there is no APR hit. The bad part of APR in this case is that no major at the university will allow you to earn a degree if your GPA is low.

This basically means that every basketball player can avoid the APR hit by taking intersession courses, as long as they don't transfer.

UConn was essentially dinged for kids transferring with a sub 2.6 GPA.
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Understood, but doesn't this still present a double-standard issue? UConn was dinged for its students transferring with inadequate GPAs while UNC was given a slap on the wrist (did they even get that?) for gaming the system entirely. Creating fake classes to cook the APR books is more academically repugnant than actually sending students to real classes and the students performing poorly in them.
 
Durks07 said:
Understood, but doesn't this still present a double-standard issue? UConn was dinged for its students transferring with inadequate GPAs while UNC was given a slap on the wrist (did they even get that?) for gaming the system entirely. Creating fake classes to cook the APR books is more academically repugnant than actually sending students to real classes and the students performing poorly in them.
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I guess I'm arguing that the APR encourages such cooking. I've been saying from the start the APR is anti-academic.

If you wanted to solve the problem of fake classes, you'd create a system that did not encourage clustering and fraud classes. You'd actually place some emphasis on graduating and proceeding through your major.
 
I can't see how this would just be cooked up by a professor and an academic advisor for the good of the football program. They either were getting paid or were under orders from higher ups. Anyone see a settlement with a non disclosure clause zipping up all futher leaks? And yes this is worse than students struggling in legitimate classes but we are punching bags at this point.
 
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jdb50 said:
I can't see how this would just be cooked up by a professor and an academic advisor for the good of the football program. They either were getting paid or were under orders from higher ups. Anyone see a settlement with a non disclosure clause zipping up all futher leaks? And yes this is worse than students struggling in legitimate classes but we are punching bags at this point.
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Also basketball players, don't forget.

As for the settlement, this is a criminal case. Not a civil case.
 
Considering that there were other students as well as athletes in the classes this guy would have taken a huge risk not holding class and handing out grades as well as just teaching some of the classes and handing out grades. Maybe the students went to most of the classes but the players rarely went? I don't know from the article. But the dept. head would have been sticking his neck out falsifying time sheets for classes not taught, which is one of the only things that can get you fired as a State employee.
 
jdb50 said:
Considering that there were other students as well as athletes in the classes this guy would have taken a huge risk not holding class and handing out grades as well as just teaching some of the classes and handing out grades. Maybe the students went to most of the classes but the players rarely went? I don't know from the article. But the dept. head would have been sticking his neck out falsifying time sheets for classes not taught, which is one of the only things that can get you fired as a State employee.
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Time sheets?

The way departments learn about classes not taught is through student complaints. There are no time sheets.

The students who went to these classes were likely tagged to help the athletes. There are regular students who get paired up to take classes alongside the athletes.
 
upstater said:
I guess I'm arguing that the APR encourages such cooking. I've been saying from the start the APR is anti-academic.

If you wanted to solve the problem of fake classes, you'd create a system that did not encourage clustering and fraud classes. You'd actually place some emphasis on graduating and proceeding through your major.
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I may be wrong, but isn't there a "demonstrable progress toward a degree" stipulation in the APR rule? I swear I read that wording in a related article.No matter. It's obviously ignored.
 
FAIRTIDES said:
I may be wrong, but isn't there a "demonstrable progress toward a degree" stipulation in the APR rule? I swear I read that wording in a related article.No matter. It's obviously ignored.
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No, there's no such thing in the APR. I'd struggle to even find ways for a student to demonstrate that.
 
upstater said:
No, there's no such thing in the APR. I'd struggle to even find ways for a student to demonstrate that.
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Wouldn't a combo of courses, grades, declared Major (and it's degree requirements) be affirmation of "progress," or lack of same?
 
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FAIRTIDES said:
Wouldn't a combo of courses, grades, declared Major (and it's degree requirements) be affirmation of "progress," or lack of same?
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Many students though don't declare a major until junior year. And even then many double major, etc., extend studies to 5 and 6 years. Hard to demonstrate. By that time, the Kentucky kids are long long gone. That's why APR simply encourages players to complete intersession or summer courses to maintain eligibility, and so at the various schools a low grade (say 2.0 or even below that) in a fluff course gives you APR points.

The only time you get into trouble is when a player transfers with a sub 2.6 GPA or when an upperclassman has difficulty in his major (if he even has a major).
 
Dooley said:
This is one of the things that absolutely drives me nuts about the NCAA. UCONN gets a postseason ban for APR while UNC operated fake classes and got a slap on the wrist. The NCAA picks and chooses their battles.
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Not when it comes to the "blue bloods" - the UNC's, the Kentucky's, the Texas's, the Auburn's, the Alabama's, the Florida's all get passes. The penalty's are reserved for others. Heck, look what it took for the NCAA to come down hard on Penn State.
 
jdb50 said:
Considering that there were other students as well as athletes in the classes this guy would have taken a huge risk not holding class and handing out grades as well as just teaching some of the classes and handing out grades. Maybe the students went to most of the classes but the players rarely went? I don't know from the article. But the dept. head would have been sticking his neck out falsifying time sheets for classes not taught, which is one of the only things that can get you fired as a State employee.
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This is supposedly the reason that the NCAA didn't get involved to the degree many thought they should. While it was mostly athletes involved, there were many "regular" students getting the benefit of these sham classes. Since it wasn't just a scam for the athletes, the NCAA saw this as a school problem and not an issue just involving the athletic department. This does not mean the NCAA won't get involved after the school (or state) finishes its investigation.
 
Irishfan said:
This is supposedly the reason that the NCAA didn't get involved to the degree many thought they should. While it was mostly athletes involved, there were many "regular" students getting the benefit of these sham classes. Since it wasn't just a scam for the athletes, the NCAA saw this as a school problem and not an issue just involving the athletic department. This does not mean the NCAA won't get involved after the school (or state) finishes its investigation.
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Yeah. The NCAA will get involved, all right. They'll blame it on UCONN.
 
Irishfan said:
This is supposedly the reason that the NCAA didn't get involved to the degree many thought they should. While it was mostly athletes involved, there were many "regular" students getting the benefit of these sham classes. Since it wasn't just a scam for the athletes, the NCAA saw this as a school problem and not an issue just involving the athletic department. This does not mean the NCAA won't get involved after the school (or state) finishes its investigation.
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School and state investigation is already finished.

The other "students" in those classes were birddogs for the athletes.
 
FAIRTIDES said:
Yeah. The NCAA will get involved, all right. They'll blame it on UCONN.
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It's interesting that UConn, USC, Penn State, Ohio State, Tennessee, Alabama and Michigan all think the NCAA is out to get them when we all know that their real target is Notre Dame.
 
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FDNY99 said:
See my post above Dooley..this was all about a personal vendetta for Emmert....nothing more nothing less.
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And where was the horde? All backing Emmert from what I saw. 'F' all of them.
 
Irishfan said:
It's interesting that UConn, USC, Penn State, Ohio State, Tennessee, Alabama and Michigan all think the NCAA is out to get them when we all know that their real target is Notre Dame.
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Well, no one but UCONN has received super, double secret, after-the-fact punishment.

ND and UCONN have one thing in common. "Boosters" that barely qualify for the title. During the Mirer/Rocket/Bus/Waters (Damn, what a team) years, there was something about a AD Secretary lending her car to players. Our "booster" was a penniless grifter. SEC billionaires sound much better.
 
its actually consumer fraud. Every person who bought tickets to a game with UNC had an expectation they were playing qualified players and the game was a fair match-up. Until there is a financial consequence, schools are incentivized to cheat and the NCAA will not enforce its own rules to its detriment.
 
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