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UCONN/DUKE Game Thread

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hoophuskee said:
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Wow.

--semper/slu/sawx please don't take offense but I just think your expectations of Stewie have been way too high.

She is playing against other scholarship players too in which the team defense is designed to stop/make it tough on her. No matter any player you focus on - if they are the main weapon- they aren't going to be perfect at anything vs a talented team- especially early in their jr year.

If your expecting every decision/every shot/ every game she is going to nail everything you're going to be disappointed for a long time.
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To be fair, a lot of people on here have already put Stewie in the same class as Maya and Diana as well as Moriah in the same class as Bird. I think we need to pump the brakes a bit on such proclamations and let their careers play out. In a year and a half when they graduate, then we can evaluate where they stand amongst the all time greats.
 
HoopsFan21 said:
To be fair, a lot of people on here have already put Stewie in the same class as Maya and Diana as well as Moriah in the same class as Bird. I think we need to pump the brakes a bit on such proclamations and let their careers play out. In a year and a half when they graduate, then we can evaluate where they stand amongst the all time greats.
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I disagree. She is in the class of these players imo. Two titles- twice being the MVP.

She is playing more like a wing but is a wing/post. She isn't going to look as pretty. But her mere presence gives players open shots while you would have gotten an open shot directly from a Dt pass.

Many of those open 3's MoJeff and KNurse etc get is a lotto do with Stewie's mere presence because of her awesome size/reach. She is different - not as flashy as DT or Maya- that is the difference imo- but we win just as much.
 
easttexastrash said:
For the same reason FSU is in the football playoffs.
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I truly think that FSU doesn't belong in the playoffs. They're undefeated but they've played mediocre ball for an appreciable amount of the season and been extraordinarily lucky to come back and win some of these games. They've gotten serious good breaks and good calls to help them stay unbeaten but they don't exemplify greatness in any way. They barely beat a Notre Dame team that was obliterated by USC. I think USC (who I am not a fan of, by the way) would beat FSU BADLY and they were an afterthought until the last few weeks of the regular season.
 
hoophuskee said:
I disagree. She is in the class of these players imo. Two titles- twice being the MVP.

She is playing more like a wing but is a wing/post. She isn't going to look as pretty. But her mere presence gives players open shots while you would have gotten an open shot directly from a Dt pass.

Many of those open 3's MoJeff and KNurse etc get is a lotto do with Stewie's mere presence because of her awesome size/reach. She is different - not as flashy as DT or Maya- that is the difference imo- but we win just as much.
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She didn't look pretty in her first two seasons but she sure looked a lot better last year than she has this year. I don't think it's because of the loss of Stef at all but just the fact that she's forcing stuff and playing sloppily. She made some pretty poor decisions tonight and she's better than that. I don't think you're being very objective. She's got some pretty impressive players playing with her and if you remember, Diana didn't have anywhere near the supporting cast that Stewie had in her junior and senior years and she was playing at a much higher level than Stewie is presently. No one is questioning her ability but she's not nearly as consistent as we would expect and her decision making could be a lot better than it has been. I have no doubt that she'll iron it out but it remind me of her inconsistent play for an appreciable amount of her freshman year.
 
Buzzyboy said:
She didn't look pretty in her first two seasons but she sure looked a lot better last year than she has this year. I don't think it's because of the loss of Stef at all but just the fact that she's forcing stuff and playing sloppily. She made some pretty poor decisions tonight and she's better than that. I don't think you're being very objective. She's got some pretty impressive players playing with her and if you remember, Diana didn't have anywhere near the supporting cast that Stewie had in her junior and senior years and she was playing at a much higher level than Stewie is presently. No one is questioning her ability but she's not nearly as consistent as we would expect and her decision making could be a lot better than it has been. I have no doubt that she'll iron it out but it remind me of her inconsistent play for an appreciable amount of her freshman year.
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IMO it's because she has to play more wing. Have her sit on the post more - she'd be just as efficient but I'm not sure Tuck and Stokes are that great yet at passing.

And I'm not sure DT was playing at a higher level than Stewie all the time in her jr year. For example (I can't find box scores) we beat 3 teams - on Jan 8th we beat RU 67-62 at home (I'm not sure how good RU was that year . But from what I've googled they were preseason Big East prediction of 6th) On Jan 12th at home we beat VTech 69-57. On Jan15th at Seton Hall we won 53-48. I'd like to see DT's performances in these games in which we played mediocre competition.

DT is my favorite women's player ever- but her season stats were 47.6 from the floor while shooting 35% from 3. She did average 4.4 assists but also had 3.1 turnovers. These aren't spectacular numbers. And if we aren't going to go by numbers to really define Dt why should we do it for Stewie when we know her mere presence gives the guards any outside shot they want?

I just think there is a different standard being cut at times because we know the results of Dt and Maya after their jr years and don't really appreciate the size issue Stewie presents to other teams at the present time. As we know teams are often a work in progress- I just don't think Stewie is being given her due at times ot also be a work in progress just as if one were to look at 02-03 and see for example those 3 games vs mediocre opponents and look at DT's DT's overall stats.
 
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I think Stewie's doing very well considering the beatings she's taking every game. And I don't think it's fair to her to be critized for things she can't do that Maya and Dee did, because they can't do some things Stewie can/did. (.i.e. win in year 1) Also, IIRC Maya and Dee were guards or guard like in Maya's case and played with the ball in their hands more; so my point is a guard can take over a game more effectively than a wing/post because they don't need anyone to get them the ball in the right places. Some of Stewie passes tonight were great reads that were just off the hands of Morgan or Kiah because they simply didn't look the catch in. (Football family) For all the talk about Mo adapting to life without Bria, some have seem to forgot Stewie also lost her partner in crime Stef; so she to is adjusting. Things will only get better, and if this is the worst, I'm not concerned one bit.
 
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Buzzyboy said:
She didn't look pretty in her first two seasons but she sure looked a lot better last year than she has this year. I don't think it's because of the loss of Stef at all but just the fact that she's forcing stuff and playing sloppily. She made some pretty poor decisions tonight and she's better than that. I don't think you're being very objective. She's got some pretty impressive players playing with her and if you remember, Diana didn't have anywhere near the supporting cast that Stewie had in her junior and senior years and she was playing at a much higher level than Stewie is presently. No one is questioning her ability but she's not nearly as consistent as we would expect and her decision making could be a lot better than it has been. I have no doubt that she'll iron it out but it remind me of her inconsistent play for an appreciable amount of her freshman year.
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Another thing most important - I don't think you and I and possibly many others are comparing apples to apples here- I just re-read your post -- I am not comparing Dt 4 years and Maya 4 years vs Stewi's 2+ years. For example you are referencing DT's senior year so you are including her spectacular NCAAA's in her jr and senior years. IMO that isn't fair. Stewie hasn't had that chance yet.

I'm comparing Stewie's 2+ years vs DT and Maya's 2+ years. For example that is why I referenced DT's early games her jr year. Sure I'll take DT and Maya 4 years over Stewie's 2+ years. But as stated in prior paragraph that type of comparison isn't fair - at least for me. A fair comparison is to look at 2+ years for each at the moment. And at that point imo they are on par.
 
huskeynut said:
Watching the game in person, one could see Duke looking very confused and frustrated when UCONN started the defensive pressure in the first half. Its like they didn't expect it. It also took a lot out of them physically.

Kiah entering and making a couple of authoritative blocks stopped Duke in the lane.

Second half Duke was mentally spent. Their offense had no flow at at. The guards were looking around and the others just stood there like statues. The best was MoJeff's pick of Greenwell. As MoJeff took off down the court, Greenwell just stood there with that "what happened" pained look on her face.
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Being mentally spent against UCONN has been something we have seen before in Duke teams under JPM.
 
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Hoophusk, no one has more respect for Stewie than I do. I love this kid. I do think there is a complicated chemistry going on with her though, and that it is really interesting. I also couldn't watch this game. I'm looking forward to the future.
 
"Could the dummy O'Brien possibly have made more mention of Duke's "incredible size?" The guy has a Freudian obsession with size."

LOL !!
 
Sluconn Husky said:
She wasn't the only one who played poorly in the first half.

In fact, she played exactly 2 minutes in the first half. Not much faith in her by Geno.
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She was the first sub off the bench in the second half though.
 
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Sluconn Husky said:
RL, Williams didn't get in the game in the second half until there was 3:44 to go. Did you mean the first half?

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2014-2015/122914.html
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Yes I did my bad I just rewatched the game and was coming back on to correct my post which of course I can't do cuz I can't edit it but I could have replied which I'm doing now so I should be all set.
 
RL, I like that she was first off early. Maybe Geno felt she was overwhelmed or something, and we know he likes riding the hot hand. Still, she has shown recently that she can be an incredible weapon and I hope he doesn't wait until next season to put her into big games.
 
Sluconn Husky said:
RL, I like that she was first off early. Maybe Geno felt she was overwhelmed or something, and we know he likes riding the hot hand. Still, she has shown recently that she can be an incredible weapon and I hope he doesn't wait until next season to put her into big games.
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With the conference schedule getting underway, the bench should get plenty of game time.
 
HoopsFan21 said:
With the conference schedule getting underway, the bench should get plenty of game time.
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Oh I have no doubt she'll play in those games. She was getting about 20/gm recently. It's in games against South Carolina and late in the NCAA tourney that I'm concerned about.
 
HoopsFan21 said:
With the conference schedule getting underway, the bench should get plenty of game time.
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as you do with Stokes and any other bench player - you see how they matchup. I would love to hear why he yanked her and didn't bring her back in until the game was decided. She did come in and pick up a foul right away and then took one shot and it went flying over the rim careening off the backboard. They must have felt either she was too nervous or her lack of size is a factor and as a result she still doesn't know how to utilize her quickness to combat the size vs. a top tier team that has great size and good athleticism.

When Gabby goes plays the post her size vs athletic teams will always be a challenge both offensively and defensively. Duke is not only tall but they are athletic. My guess is Geno felt this Duke combination of size/athleticism and Gabby's inexperience wasn't worth the gamble. Just like whne you have a team with two bigs then have to play against opposing pf's and centers that have a handle and can shoot from the outside, at least one of the bigs maybe a bad matchup because they aren't accustomed to guarding outside. It may be a team like Duke and even maybe USC might not be a good matchup for Gabby and this point in her young career.
 
Sluconn Husky said:
Oh I have no doubt she'll play in those games. She was getting about 20/gm recently. It's in games against South Carolina and late in the NCAA tourney that I'm concerned about.
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As well as she does play, when playing a game we need to remember that there are two objectives and the first and foremost in a game situation is that we win the game. the second is to use the players to the best of their level and ability and practice habits.

Doing well in game situations especially against (hate to use the word but) lesser competition may make some of the players appear to be able to handle game pressure, but when you put them into game situations against the better teams that ability may erode and/or the rhythm of the players on the deck may become unstable. That could result in errors and the other team scoring, fouls, and a change in momentum. Then, you have a problem and objective number 1 is in jeopardy.

Gabby got some minutes, and she will get more as time goes on. I like the pace that Geno is bringing her along in her new role, to my eyes she appears to be a natural in the paint and around the rim. And I have a lot of faith in her approach to the game and areas where she needs improvements, for example, free throws which showed a marked improvement this go-round.

I will go out and a limb and say that barring a freshman will or heaven forbid injury, we will see her get good minutes against most teams through the post season.
 
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hoophuskee said:
Imo its irrelevant what her potential could be because of her size. IMO - fact is she is a good enough rebounder because of her size and quickness allows her to get her hands on a lot of balls. She can learn to clear the ball better too.

But take a look at her opponent tonight - the team we heard so much about their size and what a great rebounding team they were. Stevens was averaging 4 offensive rebounds per game into this contest. And vs. other top 12 teams she averaged 3.75 offensive rebounds. Tonight she got 1. It's because Stewie's size negates offensive rebounding. She's good enough.

As far as UCLA - sure she can get beat. Every great college player has weaknesses one can pick apart- like the example I gave of the Jim Calhoun remarking that the NBA scouts focused on his weaknesses and not his strengths. Cliff Robinson turned out to be a finesse sf/pf- not "Maurice Lucas the Enforcer." Stewie doesn't appear she will ever be an enforcer but that doesn't maker her a bad rebounder. "bad rebounder for her size" is irrelevant because she also defends on the perimeter as witnessed today vs Stevens.

As far as shot selection- I think it has been very good. Again- sure a couple of shots one can focus on. But she is 6'4 --and for the most part - I see good makeable shots from the player you want to be your number 1 option. She needs to keep taking shots and the hsots she is taking overall I think are fine.

I agree with her decision making and sometimes "lazy passing/aloofness" at times. I agree that she needs to continue to work on that.
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I think you are definitely in the minority. You continue to try and make a case and it's extraordinarily weak. You must be a defense attorney or something because you're trying in so many ways to alter reality or people's perceptions. She forced shots, rushed shots and played sloppily. She's better than that. She can get away with a lot of mistakes because of her size and length and athletic ability but she also sometimes pays the piper when she plays a little out of control against pretty talented and athletic players.
 
One of the things I've been thinking about, with regards to Stewie, is her size and build. Compare her to DT, to Maya, even to KML (who is getting open looks even though not letting that happen is defensive priority 1B after denying Stewie). They all get physically harassed by the defense. DT had the crap beaten out of her during her senior year and still outplayed them all.

And they are, all four of them that I've mentioned, more or less in the same weight class*. Stewie is four inches taller, and longer, and leaner. Her build doesn't pack on muscle in the same way. I've been thinking for several games now that the very physical defense is more disruptive to her than to our past superstars because her build is not suited to absorbing it. DT and Maya, in my opinion, have builds that are just a hair bigger and more muscle-y than a classic athletic frame. The extra bulk helped keep them from getting pushed around. Stewie is longer than almost everybody, but pound-for-pound she's not that powerful.

*UConn doesn't publish weight, but official WNBA stats show only 25 pounds between DT and Delle Donne, and I don't think Stewie is bigger than EDD. DT may have also gotten leaner since college, but that's hard to judge because the uniforms are cut differently.
 
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I think you are definitely in the minority

In the minority regarding what?

Also – I’m not a total homer- I did say to slu I agreed that her decisions- in particular her passing needs improvement – she gets lazy/aloof.

You continue to try and make a case and it's extraordinarily weak.

Noooo—it’s not. IMO it is spot on.

You must be a defense attorney or something because you're trying in so many ways to alter reality or people's perceptions.

I’ve been posting for a long, long, long time. Used to post a long time ago on the old Hartford Courant Board and the ESPN board. I get it- you might not mean no harm with the defense attorney comment – but I feel if I were to come back with a comment which would describe you – you may or may not care – but its possible you and I may wind up not being civil toward each other and I don’t want that. I thought you and I have been very civil/good to one another on past posts. Even if we disagreed. Do you really need to refer to me as a defense attorney, then you’re inviting me to come back at you in a similar manner? So we disagree - okay?

She forced shots, rushed shots and played sloppily.

Sometimes super players “force shots.” As mentioned before Dt shot 47.6% from the floor in her jr year and 35% from the floor from 3. Were any of these forced/rushed? I seriously doubt when she played those mediocre teams I referenced previously that her overall stats aren’t that hot and we could look back and say the things you just said about Stewie and say those htigns about Dt in her early jr year.

As stated and implied before – I think Stewie is being held to a higher standard as an early season junior while being compared to a full 4 year DT and Maya. And as stated before if we look at 4 year DT and Maya – I’ll take the 4 year of them at this moment vs 2+ years of Stewie but that’s not right to do.

She can get away with a lot of mistakes because of her size and length and athletic ability

IMO this is just a component of what makes her so great.

but she also sometimes pays the piper when she plays a little out of control against pretty talented and athletic players

She doesn’t have many outstanding dues. No player ever in the history of wcbb that plays significant minutes as a go-to player doesn’t sometimes make mistakes of out of control or have a mental lapses – it could be as little as not setting a pick, or missing a shot because you weren’t concentrating etc. It doesn't mean they aren't playing well. It’s impossible for these young players to be perfect. From the start of NCAA’s in her frosh year to now she has lost one game. The one game we lost she played well but overall some of her teammates were more of the blame. Heck- we know even Geno referred to that after the ND game – stating that Stewie had to be breathing a sigh of relief because she got help. From a coach like Geno that doesn't sound like he thought Stewie didn't play well. Am I in the minority with Stewie vs Stanford too?
 
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Finally!! I get the chance to watch the UConn/Duke game. Typical first 5 minutes of turnovers in the 1st half. I love it when we put pressure on teams. Our 2-2-1 is really sharp!! Our half court defense is great. I loved the ball movement by our players. Stewie had several touch passes that were awesome. Then there was a nice pass, on a fastbreak, by Kia to Tuck.

Tuck is quick!!! There was a play in the 1st half where it was a duck-in play. Tuck faked right and spun back to her left and nailed the little kiss off the glass lay up. Great game.

UConn!!
 
ursusminor said:
One of the things I've been thinking about, with regards to Stewie, is her size and build. Compare her to DT, to Maya, even to KML (who is getting open looks even though not letting that happen is defensive priority 1B after denying Stewie). They all get physically harassed by the defense. DT had the crap beaten out of her during her senior year and still outplayed them all.

And they are, all four of them that I've mentioned, more or less in the same weight class*. Stewie is four inches taller, and longer, and leaner. Her build doesn't pack on muscle in the same way. I've been thinking for several games now that the very physical defense is more disruptive to her than to our past superstars because her build is not suited to absorbing it. DT and Maya, in my opinion, have builds that are just a hair bigger and more muscle-y than a classic athletic frame. The extra bulk helped keep them from getting pushed around. Stewie is longer than almost everybody, but pound-for-pound she's not that powerful.

*UConn doesn't publish weight, but official WNBA stats show only 25 pounds between DT and Delle Donne, and I don't think Stewie is bigger than EDD. DT may have also gotten leaner since college, but that's hard to judge because the uniforms are cut differently.
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But Stewie is getting hacked by much bigger people in Forwards, and Centers then DT, Maya, Or KML, and Officials have always let more go in the paint.
 
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