Uconn dominance re BigEast - a little perspective. | The Boneyard

Uconn dominance re BigEast - a little perspective.

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ucmiami2

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I was about to post this in the Creighton Game thread before I realized it would be considered a digression, so ... new thread.

People complain about Uconn dominance over their conference mates, and it certainly is not an ideal look. But what is lost in translation is that Uconn has dominated WCBB for most of 3 decades. In those 30 years they have been to 23 FF, won 12 championships, and the other 7 years they made the E8 4 times and S16 the other 3.

The first 5 years of this stretch 1994-1999 they were in a weakish BE and went 87-3 for a 96.7%.

From 1999-2013 the original big east was one of the strongest, if not the strongest conference in the country (1999-2004 the conference had a string of 5 titles) and for 7 of those years Uconn was undefeated in league play. Another 2 years they had a single blemish. and during their 2004-2006 span in the wilderness they lost 2 and 3 games and 2011-2013 ND had their number and they lost another 2 and 3 games. Overall, the regular season was 210-14 or 93.8%. During that same period, they won 92% of their games overall including the conference and NCAA games that of necessity included 7 losses in their last game when they weren't winning 7 championships. Without that last 50% w/l game in the 14 NCAAs their record was 93.2. That conference was consistently getting 6-8 teams into the NCAAs and besides Uconn's 11 trips to the FF in the 14 years, there were 8 other teams represented including ND 4 times, Rutgers 2, and Louisville 2.

Uconn dominated a P6 conference, like they have a mid-major type conference. Just as they have dominated the other P6/P5/P4.

Uconn's all time record against the former P5 (these numbers include games before Uconn was good, and some from pre-Geno.):
ACC - .796 (78-20) (Duke 14-3, ND 10-3, NC 8-5 )
Big12 - .870 (40-6) (Baylor 6-4, OK 13-0, TX 10-1)
BigTen - .814 (48-11) (PnSt 9-3, Ohio 6-1, MD 4-1, Iowa 6-4)
Pac - .745 (38-13) (Stan 12-7, UCLA 7-1 Cal 6-1)
SEC - .747 (62-21) (TN 16-9, SC 9-4, LSU 8-1)

And in those OOC games Uconn was most often playing the 'Uconn' of that conference, if not it was at least a 'contender' and not a bottom dweller - the () represent the most frequent opponents.

Pat Summitt dominated the SEC for2 decades and had a stretch of 22 years 1997-2008 when she went 231-24, 90.6% (including 11 years 1997-2008 when she went 116-15, 93.4%) with all 8 of her championships.
Dawn Staley is dominating the SEC for the last 12 years at 176-16, 91.7 (2013-2025) with her three NCs
Kim Mulkey dominated the Big12 for her last 11 years at 204-9, 95.8% with 2 NCs (She is challenging Dawn with a 55-13, 80.9% now)
Tara VanDerveer dominated the Pac for her 37 years there including a decade (2004-2014) going 136-10, 95.7%

So Uconn's dominance of the BE is not something that is 'unusual' in WCBB, and Uconn has a winning record against all of the above listed dominant coaches during their 'dominant' stretches. Were they more challenged in the Old BE - obviously, but they still dominated, and would continue to dominate in any current P4
 
Yes, I would call the Big East P-5 Conference of WCBB - but only because of UConn's membership.

I have this formulating thought of the top 6, 7 or 8 conferences being designated at D-1 and the rest being designated as D-1A based . upon (one) passion for WBB (attendance) and (two) on-court success for a five year period - with elevation/relegation every five years.

Without UConn, would the Big East this decade might save the conference as a D-1? I don't know.
 
visitingcock said:
Yes, I would call the Big East P-5 Conference of WCBB - but only because of UConn's membership.

I have this formulating thought of the top 6, 7 or 8 conferences being designated at D-1 and the rest being designated as D-1A based . upon (one) passion for WBB (attendance) and (two) on-court success for a five year period - with elevation/relegation every five years.

Without UConn, would the Big East this decade might save the conference as a D-1? I don't know.
Expand ...
I think the answer here is an obvious NO.
 
The kicker in the original post is in the last line about it being competitive "more challenged" in the oBE.

Yes, Stanford for many years was dominant, Baylor for a time, South Carolina and before them Tennessee in their conferences.

Some mid-majors have had similar dominance, at least for periods, including South Dakota State, Green Bay and La Tech / ODU in their conferences.

While it is what it is, the reality is none of the fellow Big East members for UConn appear likely to raise their program to play consistently somewhat competitive games, even if UConn wins. Another way of looking at it is that when these other teams were dominating in the power 5 / 6 conferences in the day, they were playing at least some games against teams that were lock-ins for the NCAA's and in some cases Final Four candidates. Georgia, Auburn in the day, even Ole Miss under Van were highly completive teams. The BE had - variously - Notre Dame, Rutgers, Louisville and more playing at a high level. These conferences had 5 or more members NCAA bound.

Even the PAC, while no one really challenged Stanford, had teams consistently challenging for the Big Dance, including ASU, UCLA, even Arizona many years ago (Rutgers played them in the tourney), etc.

It is just an observation that the bulk of the BE teams are just incapable of competing with UConn and there are rarely more than 1 or 2 teams that are NCAA candidates. It is, as I said above, just an observation. I think it is a challenge for UConn, and a limiting factor for the future, but for now UConn is doing more than fine, so it isn't anything to worry much about.
 
KnightBridgeAZ said:
The kicker in the original post is in the last line about it being competitive "more challenged" in the oBE.

Yes, Stanford for many years was dominant, Baylor for a time, South Carolina and before them Tennessee in their conferences.

Some mid-majors have had similar dominance, at least for periods, including South Dakota State, Green Bay and La Tech / ODU in their conferences.

While it is what it is, the reality is none of the fellow Big East members for UConn appear likely to raise their program to play consistently somewhat competitive games, even if UConn wins. Another way of looking at it is that when these other teams were dominating in the power 5 / 6 conferences in the day, they were playing at least some games against teams that were lock-ins for the NCAA's and in some cases Final Four candidates. Georgia, Auburn in the day, even Ole Miss under Van were highly completive teams. The BE had - variously - Notre Dame, Rutgers, Louisville and more playing at a high level. These conferences had 5 or more members NCAA bound.

Even the PAC, while no one really challenged Stanford, had teams consistently challenging for the Big Dance, including ASU, UCLA, even Arizona many years ago (Rutgers played them in the tourney), etc.

It is just an observation that the bulk of the BE teams are just incapable of competing with UConn and there are rarely more than 1 or 2 teams that are NCAA candidates. It is, as I said above, just an observation. I think it is a challenge for UConn, and a limiting factor for the future, but for now UConn is doing more than fine, so it isn't anything to worry much about.
Expand ...
LaTech is an exception in they were not merely a dominant mid major. They were dominant PERIOD. But, that dominance and continuing national relevance did not last after their championship level coach(es) departed. They held their own against teams from the bigger conferences until money and facilities finally overwhelmed them.

Now, NIL is the latest separator of Big vs the Rest
 
I am not up on all the numbers and letters being discussed above. To make my point and to understand what I'm posting, If P1 Is the top rating for a Conference, then Geno and Uconn are a P1 team all by itself. In the last 15 years, mainly on account of Geno, Women's basketball has grown exponentially in stature and ability. " Catch up or stay behind "Geno is a once in a lifetime coach and UCONN is a once in a lifetime team. Don't criticize , just enjoy them as I do. GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!
 
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A slightly different perspective.
-Not too many years ago when UConn was struggling with recruiting, 2-3 of the Big East put up a good fight every time they played UConn. For example, look at Villanova.
-This year, with the exception of Mich, UConn beat all the top non-league 15 teams it played by over 30 points.

While we have an exceptional roster this year, Huskies will not always be an undefeated team. In the same sense, the Villanova's, Creightons, etc. will get better. Without sounding arrogant, unsure what would be gained by moving to another league that would have 1-2 more teams that could push UConn. We play many of them already.

Examples of competiitve teams in other leagues, most of which we would win by 20-30. Many already on our schedule:
-Big 10 - USC, Mich, Iowa, Ohio State
-SEC-Vandy, LSU, SC
-ACC-Notre Dame, N. Carolina

While the Big 10, SEC, and ACC are definitely stronger leagues, not sure with the schedule that Geno puts together than we would gain much moving leagues.
 
Let me be clear re the original post:
This new Big East is the equivalent of an A10 like mid-major, but with Uconn at the top. (I certainly didn't mean to imply otherwise.)

The AAC where we were for 7 years (3 NC and 3 FF, plus covid) was a mid-major with Uconn on top

The old Big East was one of the Power 6 conferences (P6) and was the equal of any other conference in the P6 in terms of WCBB (and MCBB) - SEC, Pac12, BigTen, Big East, Big12, ACC) for the 14 years from 1999-2013 - 8 NC, 19 FF appearances in 14 years.

The Power 6 (which was coined I believe when they first started a Bowl Championship game) became the Power 5 when the BE imploded and then became the Power 4 when the Pac 12 exploded. The designations come from Football and have nothing specific to do with the other sports being played, except the HUGE influx of football cash divvied up amongst the schools in those conferences.

The biggest point I was trying to make is that Uconn has dominated everyone for 25 years, not just whatever conference they were part of. And for half that time they were in a power conference with other championship contenders.
 
Yes, UConn and a few other teams in WCBB history have dominated various conferences for extended periods.

However, I think the hypothesis of some folks here is that the NBE is overall weaker than all those other conferences that historically have been dominated. In other words, all the historical dominators had stronger collective dominees than the current NBE offers. That makes for no competitive games, no suspense, and repetitive blowouts—which seems to bother some Boneyarders but not others.

I suppose a rough statistical way to test this hypothesis would be to compute the conference MOVs of the historical dominators during their eras of hegemony, and compare those MOVs to UConn's recent NBE MOVs. (But I ain't gonna do it.)
 
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Oops, I left out the final kicker in the OP

Muffet McGraw actually had to leave Uconn's conference before she could have a 'dominant run' of more than a few years.
She escaped Uconn's shadow in the old Big East and join the ACC and finally strung together 6 seasons going 91-5, 94.8% with 1 NC and 3 NC game losses.

Her best six game stretch in the oBE was 89-15, 85.6% with 1 NC and 1 FF from 1995-2001. The second best oBE team dominated the ACC.

And the third best oBE team became the second best ACC team. In fact, the only original ACC team that has reached the final four since the oBE blew up in 2013 is NC State once, the other appearances have been oBE teams: VaTech 1, Louisville 2, Syracuse 1, and ND 4 times.

I know, VaTech is stretcging it as they were only around for a drink of water from 2000-2004!
 
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