UConn bracing for ‘deep cuts’ to sports and academics

[the Q]

Unfortunately, it's time to get down to NCAA minimum for at least men's sports.
Basketball, Football, Baseball, Hockey, Soccer are untouchable. Need 1 more to meet NCAA reqs. Tennis seems the cheapest? Would say XC but it's unlikely to keep XC and cut track.

Women's the untouchables would have to be Basketball, Field Hockey, Softball, Ice Hockey, Soccer, Volleyball, Lax. Need 1 from what remains. Tennis or Rowing, maybe you keep XC and Track as the coaches and athletes would overlap.

I remember one book I read about big money in college football that talked about crew as a great counter to football for title ix. That’s why land locked Kansas st has a crew team. So that doesn’t go anywhere.

 

[Platt81]

I remember one book I read about big money in college football that talked about crew as a great counter to football for title ix. That’s why land locked Kansas st has a crew team. So that doesn’t go anywhere.

They’re landlocked, not water free. Rowing isn’t done in the ocean, it’s typically in a river or narrow lake that I’m sure there’s plenty of in Kansas.

 

[Get a Job]

Can't drop womens sports teams b/c of football. The teams you cite (track and swim) the men and women basically share facilities and coaches, and are fairly low cost (buses for road trips, minimal equipment costs) I know for mens swimming, there are very few scholorships and I believe most are endowed. Not much savings there

You're damn right most are endowed. Those speedos though...

 

[upstater]

I'm not following this. Say MSRP tuition is $100. The master's student gets a grant of $25 as an incentive to attend so the revenue number associated with him is $75. Are you say that the the unit only gets credit for $50, which would be actual revenue less discount? Because that makes zero sense from an accounting position.

Back to scholarships... I believe that scholarship academic grants are coming out of a single pool so you need to account for how you allocate it, but sports scholarships are not using that money. It is just a discount of tuition to cost. If schools truly use a per student expenditures made analysis the cost should be much less than the nominal (MSRP) tuition.

The way we do it at SUNY is we count total expenditures per student. So, the tuition may very well only be $7k for in state students, but the unit is spending $20k per student. Every in-state student counts as a $13k loss for the unit right off the bat. So that money must be made up in other ways, mainly through MA students, foreign students, grants, fundraising, etc.

"If schools truly use a per student expenditures made analysis the cost should be much less than the nominal (MSRP) tuition."

Tuition makes up between 25%-33% of the total expenditure per student.

 

[upstater]

I actually don't doubt that Upstater is right about how they account for it. It doesn't make it accurate or meaningful.

I fondly recall Dick Norgaard as my UConn finance 101 professor trolling his wife (who was my managerial accounting professor). He put up a picture of the Empire State Building and said, what is this worth? What would an accountant say it is worth? The answer: nothing. It's fully depreciated. It sits on the books as zero.

I think the same concept is at work here. The actual cost of an athletic scholarship is not full out of state, because you would never replace those students (often minorities and underprivileged) with students paying full freight.

At state universities? It's pretty competitive. There's actually a cap at most schools on out-of-staters and foreign students, as they try to reserve seats for taxpaying in-staters.

Schools have budgets which are finite. Any money not arriving lowers the total budget. The money is unfortunately very real. And I say unfortunately because I could make an excellent case that my classes, which don't even require electricity and lighting, are bargains for the university and they're always in the black. But the accounting system works against us (and for us, in a way, since getting rid of the Humanities would skyrocket costs across the university).

 

[CL82]

The way we do it at SUNY is we count total expenditures per student. So, the tuition may very well only be $7k for in state students, but the unit is spending $20k per student. Every in-state student counts as a $13k loss for the unit right off the bat. So that money must be made up in other ways, mainly through MA students, foreign students, grants, fundraising, etc.

"If schools truly use a per student expenditures made analysis the cost should be much less than the nominal (MSRP) tuition."

Tuition makes up between 25%-33% of the total expenditure per student.

When you say tuition makes up between 25 to 30% of total student expenditure, how are you defining tuition? Is that the actual net amount received or the gross amount listed as tuition before grants? How is the shortfall made up?

If spending is 20,000 per student, what is undiscounted out of state tuition?

I always appreciate your expertise and wealth of information on this subject.

 

[CL82]

At state universities? It's pretty competitive. There's actually a cap at most schools on out-of-staters and foreign students, as they try to reserve seats for taxpaying in-staters.

Schools have budgets which are finite. Any money not arriving lowers the total budget. The money is unfortunately very real. And I say unfortunately because I could make an excellent case that my classes, which don't even require electricity and lighting, are bargains for the university and they're always in the black. But the accounting system works against us (and for us, in a way, since getting rid of the Humanities would skyrocket costs across the university).

Why would eliminating humanities, not that I’m advocating for that, raise costs? Is it just that the other options to make up those credits would be more expensive to produce?

 

[David 76]

Can't we just cut classes and leave sports?

 

[Pgh2Storrs]

XC/Track consolidated recently under Coach Roy for both the men’s and women’s programs, which I assume went a long way in helping to cut down on administrative costs. I understand that, in the grand scheme of things, track isn’t a marquee sport but it would be a great loss to see those programs cut after so much success.

 

[dvegas]

Title IX people. Not cutting women's teams. So in those minor sports (tennis, swim, track\CC) the men tend to receive fewer scholarships and "ride" off the fact the coaches are one and the same (i.e., Chris Maiello coach's both men's and women's swimming). Those men's teams take the same busses as the women to most competitions. Not a ton of savings dropping those men's sports.

 

[HooperScooper]

Can't we just cut classes and leave sports?

Worked for North Carolina.

 

[upstater]

Why would eliminating humanities, not that I’m advocating for that, raise costs? Is it just that the other options to make up those credits would be more expensive to produce?

Because our students pay the same for credit hour as students in engineering, but our faculty gets paid less, and our classroom costs are practically nil. In this respect, there's a big profit for the university.

 

[upstater]

When you say tuition makes up between 25 to 30% of total student expenditure, how are you defining tuition? Is that the actual net amount received or the gross amount listed as tuition before grants? How is the shortfall made up?

If spending is 20,000 per student, what is undiscounted out of state tuition?

I always appreciate your expertise and wealth of information on this subject.

Out-of-state tuition is different at every school, but for the vast majority of publics, it far exceeds expenditures, especially foreign student tuition. Those students are big profit sources for the university.

The discount rate at state universities is really low compared to private schools. At private schools, you can expect on average a 40% discount. At state schools, it's less than 10%. And probably a lot less at many schools with low/free tuition programs, as in our NY state system, where programs like TAP and Excelsior provide all the funding for needy students. (& of course the SUNY Presidents were shocked to find out that a program like Excelsior [free tuition if you follow a rigid state created curriculum] could be passed but the state did not fully fund it [ie. they expected the schools to kick in for it]).

 

[huskeynut]

This cutting is coming to most colleges/ universities. There are those who have already cut up to 10% on salaries. Nobody should be surprised by any cuts the athletic department must make as well as the academic programs.

Cancelling the NCAA tournaments was a massive financial loss. Every university/ college is affected by this.

As to UConn football, I am not a fan of Edsel. His return plus 3 bad coaches prior have pretty much killed the football program. Let's see what happens this year with an indy schedule. If Edsel can't produce at least a 500 team this coming season, he needs to go.

 

[CL82]

Out-of-state tuition is different at every school, but for the vast majority of publics, it far exceeds expenditures, especially foreign student tuition. Those students are big profit sources for the university.

This is my point precisely. If the charge back for scholarship students is the full out of state rate it does not reflect the actual cost of education (including housing) of the student. Instead it is an idealized and typically unrealized number that reflect a disproportionate profit component. The cost of education piece would seem to be a more appropriate number as the inter-department charge-back.

Again, I always appreciate your insight on this stuff. I learn something pretty much every time you share it.

 

[BlueMAB]

*Edsall

 

[Waquoit]

I think the entire UConn workforce (minus the people that seem to do most of the actual teaching) is paid at the top of the market. If they were paid less would the quality of the UConn experience be any less? But that's not how the game works.

 

[Get a Job]

This cutting is coming to most colleges/ universities. There are those who have already cut up to 10% on salaries. Nobody should be surprised by any cuts the athletic department must make as well as the academic programs.

Cancelling the NCAA tournaments was a massive financial loss. Every university/ college is affected by this.

As to UConn football, I am not a fan of Edsel. His return plus 3 bad coaches prior have pretty much killed the football program. Let's see what happens this year with an indy schedule. If Edsel can't produce at least a 500 team this coming season, he needs to go.

.500?! .500?! We can't even win a game! You're talking about .500?!

 

[upstater]

This is my point precisely. If the charge back for scholarship students is the full out of state rate it does not reflect the actual cost of education (including housing) of the student. Instead it is an idealized and typically unrealized number that reflect a disproportionate profit component. The cost of education piece would seem to be a more appropriate number as the inter-department charge-back.

Again, I always appreciate your insight on this stuff. I learn something pretty much every time you share it.

I see what you are saying. It's an excellent point. But it all depends on the actual price charged for out of state.

Some school's OOS tuition is still below the expenditure per student.

It varies widely.

But again you're going to run into the initial problem I laid out. All other units account for it in the same way. When my department brings in an out-of-state Masters student who pays far more for tuition than we spend on him/her, we don't keep the profit. The college does. It would be nice if we did!

& then, some states have a hard cap on the number of out of state students allowed. They preserve seats for in-staters by law. This means that, if athletic departments did not reimburse the academic side fully, every out-of-state athlete on scholarship is essentially a missed opportunity to profit from a a student willing to pay 50k.

And then, there's the final consideration. The academic side in the vast vast majority of cases subsidizes the entire athletic department, which makes this conversation moot.

Check this out:

University of Michigan OOS tuition: 49,350
University of Connecticut OOS tuition: 38,098
UConn students from New England: 23,424
USF: 17,324
UCF: 20,980
Florida St.: 21,683

 

[Kenny11]

Most of the other sports really don’t cost much. Football Costs a lot. I’m not saying to cut football but you can’t have a conversation about cutting sports without football being the first choice. I don’t want to cut any sport. Being a college athlete, especially at the division 1 level is a special thing and takes so much dedication. I would actually be in favor of adding sports if it was possible.

 

[huskymedic]

>>“One thing that was not discussed (publicly) is the conversation I’ve had with the university leadership and the board is it’s not a 25 percent reduction starting July 1,” Benedict said. “It’s getting to 25 percent over the next three years. However, you’re going to have that plan in place on how you’re going to get there in Year 1, Year 2, Year 3.”<<

 

[The Viking]

Go back to the 90s. Make all cuts in education so people like me can get back into the college again. In fact cut an extra 10 million from academics and add it to the AD.
We are not getting into the Big 10 time to stop acting like it.

 

[David 76]

Devaluing the cost of an athletic scholarship to an in -state scholarship does nothing to help UConn's financials problems. It would look better for th Athletic but it is a shell game.
colleges are the only business that have far outpaced medical care in inflation over the past 50 years. Something like 1400%.
And while medicine looks entirely different from 50 years ago, college does not.
i love UConn and value education but a reckoning is coming, especially for private colleges without the highest prestige. I hope UConn adapts. They have gotten away with too much. Covid is accelerating the college crisis.

 

[Fatroony5]

>>“One thing that was not discussed (publicly) is the conversation I’ve had with the university leadership and the board is it’s not a 25 percent reduction starting July 1,” Benedict said. “It’s getting to 25 percent over the next three years. However, you’re going to have that plan in place on how you’re going to get there in Year 1, Year 2, Year 3.”<<

“Football lost $13.3 million last year.” Yikes.... doesn’t take a genius to see that’s not sustainable. I get the independent route, buy games, new TV contract etc to make that gap up. I just still wonder what the end goal is and how they close the gap. People who follow football more than me, can you outline how they get into the green again? Or at least break even? And is basketball currently going to be the only non revenue generating sport? It’s just staggering to see the numbers actually outlined. Somethings gotta give at some point.

 

[huskymedic]

“Football lost $13.3 million last year.” Yikes.... doesn’t take a genius to see that’s not sustainable. I get the independent route, buy games, new TV contract etc to make that gap up. I just still wonder what the end goal is and how they close the gap. People who follow football more than me, can you outline how they get into the green again? Or at least break even? And is basketball currently going to be the only non revenue generating sport? It’s just staggering to see the numbers actually outlined. Somethings gotta give at some point.

Here’s some background if you haven’t seen it before:

 

[huskymedic]

 

[BlueDogs]

The football experiment has clearly failed. Let's admit it, and move on. That's a quarter of the deficit right there.

To call it an experiment is a disservice to the many kids that have played and fans that have paid. The real cost is the massive employee payroll and bloated benefits that make the sports programs look like peanuts. .

 

[Bobol]

We are not cutting football. Why do people keep bringing this up?....

Caronimo ...... aren’t you one of the many posters that said UConn would never move to the Big East ?

The reality is that football provides a terrible return on the University’s investment, and impairs its image.

The many- many millions of dollars used to subsidize UConn football could be used to expand financial aid to UConn students, offer merit scholarships for exemplary students, or a number of other ways to expand the academic footprint of UConn.

 

[CL82]

Some school's OOS tuition is still below the expenditure per student.

Where does there operating budget come from then. Does the legislature subsidize OOS tuition as well as in state?

All other units account for it in the same way. When my department brings in an out-of-state Masters student who pays far more for tuition than we spend on him/her, we don't keep the profit.

True but are you charged more than the student brings in?

some states have a hard cap on the number of out of state students allowed. They preserve seats for in-staters by law. This means that, if athletic departments did not reimburse the academic side fully, every out-of-state athlete is essentially a missed opportunity to profit from a a student willing to pay 50k.

Or alternatively, the school could simply not count athletes toward the OOS cap.

The academic side in the vast vast majority of cases subsidizes the entire athletic department, which makes this conversation moot.

Sort of, but the paper inflation of the cost of tuition for an athlete is net nothing to the extent it actually exceeds the actual education cost.

I'm just not a fan of inflated inter-department charges. It is, in my view deceptive accounting. I feel the same way about the cost to UConn for the use of the Rent or the XL Center.

 

[CL82]

Caronimo ...... aren’t you one of the many posters that said UConn would never move to the Big East ?

The reality is that football provides a terrible return on the University’s investment, and impairs its image.

The many- many millions of dollars used to subsidize UConn football could be used to expand financial aid to UConn students, offer merit scholarships for exemplary students, or a number of other ways to expand the academic footprint of UConn.

True, so could the millions spent on basketball, and every other sport though. So could cost of other non-sports extra curricular activities. The student rec center has a very low ROI as well.... well only if don't count it as making the college experience more attractive. Hey wait a minute that logic applies to sports as well, doesn't it?