UConn at Baylor Jan 7th

[Zanzman]

Seems there were a few years they were favored to go to the final four and didn’t make it soft schedule helped with that I believe

 

[Carnac]

UConn had games cancelled as well, but Auriemma chose to add Louisville instead of Northwestern Oshkosh Poly-tech Institute.

Kim and Geno have different philosophies on scheduling/playing competition. Especially for getting their team ready for conference play. Being the weak AAC, Geno was forced to play a highly competitive OOC schedule. Those games are what the selection committee judged his team on. Not their victories over the weak mid-major teams he beat up on in conference play. Baylor did not/does not have that challenge, thus Kim can schedule cupcakes to begin the season and get away with it.

Allow me to pose a question here.....................If Geno scheduled cupckaes and Twinkies for preseason play like Kim does, how would that effect UConn's RPI rating and perception by the tournament selection committee? Could UConn still receive a 1 seed? Geno and Kim take different paths to the same destination, the final four. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

 

[Carnac]

Seems there were a few years they were favored to go to the final four and didn’t make it soft schedule helped with that I believe

Right. In 2015, ND sent Baylor home in the Oklahoma City regional final 77-68. UConn won the NC over ND 63-53.

In 2016, 2 seed Oregon St. upset 1 seed Baylor 60-57 in a region final. UConn's last NC over Syracuse 82-51

In 2017, giant killer 2 seed Mississippi St. knocked off 1 seed Baylor 94-85 in a regional final, then proceeded to knock off UConn in the semi-final game of the final four 66-64. We all remember that one.........William's buzzer beater. South Carolina won the NC.

In 2018, 2 seed Baylor was upset by 6 seed Oregon St. in the Lexington regional semi-finals 72-67. Notre Dame won the NC.

In 2019, Baylor was a 1 seed and won the NC (ND). UConn was a 2 seed - lost to ND 81-78 in the semi's of the FF.

 

[SECbbfan24]

In 2017, giant killer 2 seed Mississippi St. knocked off 1 seed Baylor 94-85 in a regional final, then proceeded to knock off UConn in the semi-final game of the final four 66-64. We all remember that one.........William's buzzer beater.

Sometimes you have to just tip your hat to the other team for winning instead of just saying they choked. Miss St was essentially a team of destiny that year. Baylor did come up short a few years in that elite 8 though.

Kim is a great coach and Baylor is a tremendous program. I do wish she would schedule more good teams than she does. You don't need to schedule a bunch of top 10 teams but schedule more NCAAT caliber teams or teams close to it. I understand why she does it but wish she should go a different path with her scheduling. Thats my preference at least.

 

[Alydar]

The problem I see is that a few elite level coaches like to talk about promoting wcbb but when they have the chance to schedule games with a high level of public interest they demur.

Baylor used to play in a conference that was very competitive and playing home and home padded all their RPI's and SOS's. But last season the B12 fell to the bottom of the P-5 and Baylor now is faced with playing in a conference that's little different from the BE.
And it wasn't too long ago that a weak schedule had Kim whining about her seed. She pointed to her record while everyone else pointed to her lack of any elite wins.

 

[Carnac]

Sometimes you have to just tip your hat to the other team for winning instead of just saying they choked. Miss St was essentially a team of destiny that year. Baylor did come up short a few years in that elite 8 though.

Kim is a great coach and Baylor is a tremendous program. I do wish she would schedule more good teams than she does. You don't need to schedule a bunch of top 10 teams but schedule more NCAAT caliber teams or teams close to it. I understand why she does it but wish she should go a different path with her scheduling. Thats my preference at least.

Mine too. I hope she continues to put UConn on her OOC schedule. It's good competition for both programs. (I'd also like to see UConn and Stanford resume their series. That would mean UConn would come west every other year).

She schedules all but one of her OOC games at home, and you know the outcome of those games before hand. There's no drama or mystery there. Just Baylor beating up on a cupcake much to the delight of Bear fans. Her reserves get a lot of playing time in the 2nd half.

 

[soxfan23]

Kim and Geno have different philosophies on scheduling/playing competition. Especially for getting their team ready for conference play. Being the weak AAC, Geno was forced to play a highly competitive OOC schedule. Those games are what the selection committee judged his team on. Not their victories over the weak mid-major teams he beat up on in conference play. Baylor did not/does not have that challenge, thus Kim can schedule cupcakes to begin the season and get away with it.

Allow me to pose a question here.....................If Geno scheduled cupckaes and Twinkies for preseason play like Kim does, how would that effect UConn's RPI rating and perception by the tournament selection committee? Could UConn still receive a 1 seed? Geno and Kim take different paths to the same destination, the final four. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

Maybe if Mulkey scheduled a tougher OOC schedule she would have more than 4 Final Four trips and 3 National Championships? 20 Final Fours and 11 NCs > 4 Final Fours and 3 NCs is also a fact.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Kim and Geno have different philosophies on scheduling/playing competition. Especially for getting their team ready for conference play. Being the weak AAC, Geno was forced to play a highly competitive OOC schedule. Those games are what the selection committee judged his team on. Not their victories over the weak mid-major teams he beat up on in conference play. Baylor did not/does not have that challenge, thus Kim can schedule cupcakes to begin the season and get away with it.

Allow me to pose a question here.....................If Geno scheduled cupckaes and Twinkies for preseason play like Kim does, how would that effect UConn's RPI rating and perception by the tournament selection committee? Could UConn still receive a 1 seed? Geno and Kim take different paths to the same destination, the final four. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

Clarify for me the tough conference games that Baylor has to play. The Big 12 has become a weak conference with the fall of Texas and Oklahoma. Sorry, can't endorse Kim's cynicism.

 

[Carnac]

Clarify for me the tough conference games that Baylor has to play. The Big 12 has become a weak conference with the fall of Texas and Oklahoma. Sorry, can't endorse Kim's cynicism.

Jonathan, I agree that the BIG 12 has fallen on hard times, but, the fact remains she continues to get a much desired 1 seed, and her teams are usually ready for that final run through the tournament. Baylor is still feared and respected.

No teams want to be in their bracket (no teams will want to be in UConn's bracket this year either). I'm not saying it's fair, but it's real. Whether you endorse it or not, she's getting away with it. If nothing else, the committee respects the fact that Baylor plays in a P-5 conference comprised of 10 major programs.

To answer your question, I believe Texas and TCU are the two programs that will pose the most resistance this season. It’s not their fault that the other conference schools have failed to rise to Baylor’s level.

That alone carries some weight. All Kim wants to do every year is to go undefeated through the conference tournament, then get a 1 seed. Lately, that's what she's been doing. I understand that you disapprove of her methods, but it's working for her. I think Baylor will at least make the regional finals this year. After that, ?1?

I think Texas is on the rebound quickly. Vic Schaefer is putting together a power house squad in Austin. He's doing very well on the recruiting trail, but needs one more year to get "his" players in there. Texas signed 3 elite standouts over the summer: Lauren Ebo, DeYona Gaston and Kyra Lambert. I expect the Longhorns to give Baylor some very real and "stiff" competition beginning next year. This year, TCU and Texas appear to be Baylor's only real competition. Oklahoma continues to under achieve and remains a non factor in the BIG 12. They finished 5-13 in conference play last year.

 

[Carnac]

Maybe if Mulkey scheduled a tougher OOC schedule she would have more than 4 Final Four trips and 3 National Championships? 20 Final Fours and 11 NCs > 4 Final Fours and 3 NCs is also a fact.

Yeah, maybe. You think she'll do it? There are more elite teams now that have a real legitimate chance of reaching the final four. Not just the usual 4-5. That must be taken into account. All a team needs to do is get hot/lucky those last 4 games, and wind up in the finals. Then there's old dreaded "dark horse" that always pops up at the last minute, unannounced as always to throw some crap into the tournament like Oregon St and Syracuse did recently. Remember the year that UConn was the only 1 seed to make the final 4? It can happen again. I think this year's national champion will come from the teams listed below.

 

[Adriacus]

FYI.....Baylor was likely the WBB program most impacted by the PAC-12’s decision to play 22 conference games. Lost home games against Stanford and Arizona St. and a neutral court game against Oregon. 4 cupcake games isn’t ideal this season, but contractual obligations were tough. The cost of postponing/cancelling existing “pay to play” games was simply too high in the COVID economy. The budget for the team [like most teams at most schools] took a hit this year. Hopefully the budget constraints won’t roll too far into the future. Expecting at least 2 more years of tight budgets to make up the lost revenue from this year. The Baylor “sports rainy day fund” is taking a huge hit ‘even with generous donor giving].

 

[JonathanXIV]

Jonathan, I agree that the BIG 12 has fallen on hard times, but, the fact remains she continues to get a much desired 1 seed, and her teams are usually ready for that final run through the tournament. Baylor is still feared and respected. No teams want to be in their bracket (no teams will want to be in UConn's bracket this year either). I'm not saying it's fair, but it's real. Whether you endorse it or not, she's getting away with it. If nothing else, the committee respects the fact that Baylor plays in a P-5 conference comprised of 10 major programs.

That alone carries some weight. All Kim wants to do every year is to go undefeated through the conference tournament, then get a 1 seed. Lately, that's what she's been doing. I understand that you disapprove of her methods, but it's working for her. I think Baylor will at least make the regional finals this year. After that, ?1?

I think Texas is on the rebound quickly. Vic Schaefer is putting together a power house squad in Austin. He's doing very well on the recruiting trail, but needs one more year to get "his" players in there. Texas signed 3 elite standouts over the summer: Lauren Ebo, DeYona Gaston and Kyra Lambert. I expect the Longhorns to give Baylor some very real and "stiff" competition beginning next year. This year, TCU and Texas appear to be Baylor's only real competition. Oklahoma continues to under achieve and remains a non factor in the BIG 12. They finished 5-13 in conference play last year.

I don't want to beat this dead horse much longer. Again, I get why Kim does what she does. An argument can be made that it ensures her the best result (although an argument that it handicaps her program and leaves her little margin for error in obtaining a #1 seed can also be made). But my position is that her obligation should not be limited to advancing her own program, but furthering the sport. If she felt an obligation to advancing WCBB she would actively and aggressively seek out games against top opponents. You know, like that program in Storrs does. And no, UConn doesn't do that because it's in a weak conference, because it did that when it played in the toughest conference in the country. I have some criticisms of Summitt and her program, but she never ducked a tough opponent. Baylor, and the sport, would be better off if Kim didn't either.

 

[Carnac]

I don't want to beat this dead horse much longer. Again, I get why Kim does what she does. An argument can be made that it ensures her the best result (although an argument that it handicaps her program and leaves her little margin for error in obtaining a #1 seed can also be made). But my position is that her obligation should not be limited to advancing her own program, but furthering the sport. If she felt an obligation to advancing WCBB she would actively and aggressively seek out games against top opponents. You know, like that program in Storrs does. And no, UConn doesn't do that because it's in a weak conference, because it did that when it played in the toughest conference in the country. I have some criticisms of Summitt and her program, but she never ducked a tough opponent. Baylor, and the sport, would be better off if Kim didn't either.

Touche' Jonathan. That was good Jonathan. I'm going to go outside now and wash some cars.

 

[DEpup]

How about them Cowboys?!? [2nd place in the division @ 2-5 - may make the playoffs at 5-11]

I am looking forward to this game to see how much ONO and Aubrey have improved and what Aaliyah is made of...

 

[JonathanXIV]

Touche' Jonathan. That was good Jonathan. I'm going to go outside now and wash some cars.

No touche. Just stating opposite sides of the same coin. Next couple years of UConn-Baylor should be interesting. And by "interesting" I mean UConn wins (for some reason I find UConn wins so much more interesting than losses).

 

[Carnac]

I am looking forward to this game to see how much ONO and Aubrey have improved and what Aaliyah is made of...

We get to see our girls twice in two days. I expect Miss St. to give UConn the tougher game. Quinnipiac should be in the game for about 5 minutes before UConn begins to pull away. Don’t be surprised if UConn is up by double digits at the first break.

 

[southie]

In 2018, 2 seed Baylor was upset by 6 seed Oregon St. in the Lexington regional semi-finals 72-67. Notre Dame won the NC.

In 2019, Baylor was a 1 seed and won the NC (ND). UConn was a 2 seed - lost to ND 81-78 in the semi's of the FF.

I believe it was 2018 where many (including Creme) believed Baylor would receive a #1 national seed based on just a couple of losses; but, their atrocious SOS had others expecting the committee to knock Baylor down to a #2 seed, and that's how it ended up.

 

[WiseOne]

Smith is going to be a problem for UConn. ONO can’t guard Smith and Egbo alone.

Why would she guard them alone?

 

[Husky fanatic]

Yeah, maybe. You think she'll do it? There are more elite teams now that have a real legitimate chance of reaching the final four. Not just the usual 4-5. That must be taken into account. All a team needs to do is get hot/lucky those last 4 games, and wind up in the finals. Then there's old dreaded "dark horse" that always pops up at the last minute, unannounced as always to throw some crap into the tournament like Oregon St and Syracuse did recently. Remember the year that UConn was the only 1 seed to make the final 4? It can happen again. I think this year's national champion will come from the teams listed below.

View attachment 60337

. No crystal ball required here!

 

[Steelerone]

Soxfan, I gave you a like, and agree with you 1000%. However, in fairness, I must share two observations here.
1. Most of the low/mid-major programs Kim schedules receive a "cash" stipend for playing them. Most of those schools can really use the money, as their entire athletic program does not generate nearly enough revenue to balance their books at the end of the athletic school year. Some of theses schools are HBCU's. You could say Kim is giving back to the smaller programs that really need the $$$, and are glad to go on a road trip to Waco to get it. For many of these programs, the Farrell Center is the largest arena they will play in all year, and the largest crowd they will play in front of all year. Those programs see it as a win-win. It's the same when UConn plays exhibition games against Division 2/3/NAIA programs to begin the season. I had that same mind-set until a poster set me straight. Now, I'm cool with their preseason schedule.

2. Kim has been playing this type of "soft" schedule for years. It HAS NOT hurt her program yet come March when the tournament selection committee chooses the seeds. If Baylor handles their business during the regular season, they get a 1 seed, just like they did two years ago when they won it all. So I don't look for her to change her M.O. any time soon. Now that I understand the method of her madness, I applaud her for it.

Again, a hundred per cent on, Carnac. Unless I misread the schedule of football games we were to play this year Uconn was to go up against some powerhouse teams and it wasn't to enhance our record - it was about the payoff. So as long as we play Quinnipiac (?) and some other teams that Geno schedules as favors to their coach's I don't think that castigating Kim is fair.

 

[Alydar]

The question to ask Kim is what is the best way to enhance wcbb, to throw some money at a handful of weak programs every year or to schedule competitve games with a national interest that enhances every program's image?

 

[Carnac]

The problem I see is that a few elite level coaches like to talk about promoting wcbb but when they have the chance to schedule games with a high level of public interest they demur.

Baylor used to play in a conference that was very competitive and playing home and home padded all their RPI's and SOS's. But last season the B12 fell to the bottom of the P-5 and Baylor now is faced with playing in a conference that's little different from the BE.
And it wasn't too long ago that a weak schedule had Kim whining about her seed. She pointed to her record while everyone else pointed to her lack of any elite wins.

Check and double check Alydar. We hear coaches all the time talk about how they want WCBB to grow and become more popular across the sports landscape. But here's the thing, They think like coaches, we think like fans. We have no skin in the game when it comes to them keeping their jobs or not. We do not, and have never looked at the game through the same lens as they do. They deal with a lot of challenges from above (administration/AD) and below asst coaches/players, parents, media) that we never hear about. We only see them pacing the side lines during their games, and at pressers afterwards.

Query: (this is a rhetorical question) What do you think "the average coach" would do given two choices here?
If a any WCBB D-1 coach had the choice of winning the national championship, or............building and popularizing the sport and trying to attract new fans to WBB, which do you believe they would choose? Remember, they can only choose one of these two options.

That's right!!! winning the championship EVERY TIME! It puts your program on the map if it's not already there, It's great for recruiting, free nationwide advertising by the TV news media, it increases interest in YOUR potential fan base (everyone likes a winner, and wants to be part of one), It increases your salary because of built in performance clauses, it increases your stature in the coach's fraternity among other things.

So when you hear coaches say they want or would like to see an increase in interest in WCBB, it makes you wonder to what lengths they are willing to go to achieve that end. Especially (as you said) they have the chance to schedule games with a high level of public interest.

Scheduling weak teams will never increase fan interest. Playing as many competitive games as you can schedule will increase fan interest. That's why UConn's AAC conference games didn't draw more fans.
A true "die-hard" UConn fan will go to all the games, regardless. While others don't want to spend the time and/or money to go to Gampel watch them beat up on a fledgling mid-major that can't even break .500 in the their won-loss record. Mediocrity never is fun or exciting to watch. Note the attendance when an "elite" top 5 program comes to town, the place is sold out.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Check and double check Aldar. We hear coaches all the time talk about how they want WCBB to grow and become more popular across the sports landscape. But here's the thing, They think like coaches, we think like fans. We have no skin in the game when it comes to them keeping their jobs or not. We do not, and have never looked at the game through the same lens as they do. They deal with a lot of challenges from above (administration/AD) and below asst coaches/players, parents, media) that we never hear about. We only see them pacing the side lines during their games, and at pressers afterwards.

Query: (this is a rhetorical question) What do you think "the average coach" would do given two choices here?
If a any WCBB D-1 coach had the choice of winning the national championship, or............building and popularizing the sport and trying to attract new fans to WBB, which do you believe they would choose? Remember, they can only choose one of these two options.

That's right!!! winning the championship EVERY TIME! It puts your program on the map if it's not already there, It's great for recruiting, free nationwide advertising by the TV news media, it increases interest in YOUR potential fan base (everyone likes a winner, and wants to be part of one), It increases your salary because of built in performance clauses, it increases your stature in the coach's fraternity among other things.

So when you hear coaches say they want or would like to see an increase in interest in WCBB, it makes you wonder to what lengths they are willing to go to achieve that end. Especially (as you said) they have the chance to schedule games with a high level of public interest.

Scheduling weak teams will never increase fan interest. Playing as many competitive games as you can schedule will increase fan interest. That's why UConn's AAC conference games didn't draw more fans.
A true "die-hard" UConn fan will go to all the games, regardless. While others don't want to spend the time and/or money to go to Gampel watch them beat up on a fledgling mid-major that can't even break .500 in the their won-loss record. Mediocrity never is fun or exciting to watch. Note the attendance when an "elite" top 5 program comes to town, the place is sold out.

You present this as an either/or. There's no reason a coach can't choose both. Seriously, do you think Kim is in any danger of losing her job? Ever? A couple of competitive games, instead of scheduling a serious of "Sister of the Poor" home games, is not going to cost Baylor a shot at the championship. Even if they lose those games, they're still going into the tournament as a 2 seed. Geno chose both. Pat chose both. Kim can chose both.

 

[Carnac]

You present this as an either/or. There's no reason a coach can't choose both. Seriously, do you think Kim is in any danger of losing her job? Ever? A couple of competitive games, instead of scheduling a serious of "Sister of the Poor" home games, is not going to cost Baylor a shot at the championship. Even if they lose those games, they're still going into the tournament as a 2 seed. Geno chose both. Pat chose both. Kim can chose both.

My reply was to Alydar's query about a few elite coaches: "The problem I see is that a few elite level coaches like to talk about promoting wcbb but when they have the chance to schedule games with a high level of public interest they demur", not necessarily Kim. But if the shoe fits.................

Of course Kim is not in jeopardy of losing her job. She just won a natty. She's good for another 6-10 years. My narrative asked the question about THE AVERAGE COACH". I did not mention Kim. You're right, there is no reason a coach can't do both, but do they? I don't make their schedules. they do!! Ask them why they don't.

It is what it is!! Kim habitually schedules "soft" non-competitive teams she knows her teams can beat, so that Baylor can begin each season with a 10-13/0 record. It's no accident. She's done that for years. So do other coaches. Maybe to the extent she does, but they do.

Coaches lose their jobs every year because they don't win enough games to keep the AD and the administration happy. Again, I did not say or suggest that Mulkey was in danger of losing her job. I used the term "coaches" in a general sense. Somehow you read it differently. I don't think you will be as offended by my post if you read it in the context it was written in.

Finally..........allow me to be crystal clear, I absolutely positively have no issue with Kim Mulkey, Baylor or any of its players. I don't have anything for or against Kim or her program. I don't follow Baylor WBB. I'm a UConn WBB fan........period!!! In Geno I trust!! I don't follow/care about any other WCBB team.

 

[Adriacus]

Not certain why people push the myth that Baylor plays no one of merit in OOC......agendas likely vary.

Here are examples from last 10 years:

2010/11: UConn, Mich. St., NotreDame, Minnesota, Tennessee, Syracuse
2011/12: UCLA, NotreDame, Tennessee, Minnesota, UConn, Missouri
2012/13: Kentucky, Stanford, NotreDame, Tennessee
2013/14: Kentucky, Ole Miss, UConn, Tennessee
2014/15: Kentucky, Ole Miss, Syracuse, Mich. St.
2015/16: USF, DePaul, Michigan St., Miami
2016/17: UCLA, UConn, DePaul, Ohio St., Tennessee
2017/18: UCLA, Mo St., Ga. Tech, Kentucky, Stanford
2018/19: Ariz. St., South Carolina, Stanford, UConn
2019/20: USF, Indiana, South Carolina, UConn

Plus 18 Power 5 Conference Games each year.

Not always great, but better than average. Some seasons, lost games against elite programs because those programs lost in early rounds of exempt tourneys.

Have no idea why UConn fans would want to denigrate Baylor......doesn’t that mean your wins against Baylor have less value and losses against Baylor become more problematic?