UConn and UNLV to the Big 12?

[ZOOCONN]

Oh I see you are one of those folks who put a lot of value in regular season conference titles and shared ones at that.

I don't remember the last time the NCAA gave out a trophy to the school with the best regular season record, but hey everyone loves a good participation ribbon.

uhhhhh both our football conference titles in the big east were shared and people claim those with pride...

 

[CAHUSKY]

That is true now, but UNLV has been rapdily overtaking Reno since it separated from Reno in the sixties. Reno has been around much much longer and doesn't have as much to show for its time as UNLV.

Huh? In what universe is UNLV overtaking Nevada? Can you give an example?

 

[Ldandy]

This is absolute nonsense. By any reasonable parlance, winning your league's regular season title is a "league title." It's far more representative of a team's quality than their performance in a single-elimination tournament. An the reason the NCAA gives auto-bids for conference tournaments is because they want people to watch conference tournaments.

Yeah that's my take as well. You have a regular season champion and a conference tournament champion. If by some miracle BC won The ACC Tournament this season they would get the auto bid to the tournament. That said no one outside of Chestnut Hill would be proclaiming BC as ACC Champions. Conference Tournaments are a made for TV construct. They are a money grab. Last I checked there is already a way to determine a conference champion. its called W/L Record.

 

[NYUConn]

uhhhhh both our football conference titles in the big east were shared and people claim those with pride...

Also this is an apples and oranges argument because there was no Big East football title game. Had their been a postseason game to determine the Big East champion, regular season titles shared or otherwise would be irrelevant.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Also this is an apples and oranges argument because there was no Big East football title game. Had their been a postseason game to determine the Big East champion, regular season titles shared or otherwise would be irrelevant.

No, you're still wrong. Regular season titles are titles. The schools count them. Stop being deliberately obtuse to support your nonsense argument that Cincinnati hasn't won any league titles since 2004. You made a mistake. Man up, admit it, and stop digging.

 

[NYUConn]

No, you're still wrong. Regular season titles are titles. The schools count them. Stop being deliberately obtuse to support your nonsense argument that Cincinnati hasn't won any league titles since 2004. You made a mistake. Man up, admit it, and stop digging.

If it makes you feel better to acknowledge one single tie for first place in regular season play as a league title then congratulations, you've completely blown my argument apart. Never mind that my point in the first place was that Mick Cronin is a choke artist in March, but congrats man you won an argument on the internet!

Mick Cronin is worth every penny, guys! He once shared a league title in 10 years of coaching.

 

[CallMeBruce]

If it makes you feel better to acknowledge one single tie for first place in regular season play as a league title then congratulations, you've completely blown my argument apart. Never mind that my point in the first place was that Mick Cronin is a choke artist in March, but congrats man you won an argument on the internet!

Mick Cronin is worth every penny, guys! He once shared a league title in 10 years of coaching.

And the last resort of the idiot: bashing a strawman. Look, you made a minor factual error. It was pointed out to you. You could have said "OK, one conference title in the last 12 years, still unimpressive," and you would have been right. Instead, you decided to create this new nonsense argument where you pretend that regular season titles don't count, that everyone knows you don't really believe, because it's insane. Get it together, man.

 

[NYUConn]

And the last resort of the idiot: bashing a strawman. Look, you made a minor factual error. It was pointed out to you. You could have said "OK, one conference title in the last 12 years, still unimpressive," and you would have been right. Instead, you decided to create this new nonsense argument where you pretend that regular season titles don't count, that everyone knows you don't really believe, because it's insane. Get it together, man.

Ok, I was being a bit of a jerk there. Needed my coffee. Here's what I will say on the topic and then we can move on to talking about how insane the idea of UNLV in P5 is.

I don't believe regular season titles should count, but for the purpose of our argument I'll concede to you that most people do count them. But I don't think it's irrational or nonsensical to hold my opinion.

I get the argument that people put forward that says a league title is impressive because it means that you were able to go the distance over 2-3 months and have the best record and that teams just "get hot" and win conference tournaments.

But the inverse argument is that teams miss key players during the season and that skews their win/loss record.

Case in point: this year's UConn team. Temple beat us twice without Amida Brimah en route to a conference title.

When the tournament rolled around and UConn had a fully healthy roster we ultimately won and secured the at-large NCAA bid.

So you can make an argument both ways here and I personally believe that regular season titles don't carry much water in an era of postseason conference tournaments.

Same goes for football. Winning the old 8-team Big East with a shared title was an acceptable definition of winning the league because there was no other way determining who the true champion was (though I would argue that in 2007 our 'shared' title with WVU was kind of BS since they beat us head-to-head).

But nobody would claim that the 6-6 Georgia Tech football team that lost the ACC title game to Florida State in 2012 were "League Champions" just because they won their division.

So why should we give Temple the honor of "League Champs" when they immediately lost in the conference tournament and had to rely on an at-large bid?

It doesn't make sense to me. You can be a great regular season team, but the beauty of sports is that if you can't get it done in the postseason when it matters, then nobody will remember you.

One Love.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Huh? In what universe is UNLV overtaking Nevada? Can you give an example?

Should everything move to a P4 arrangement with 16 to 20 schools per conference, I think UNLV has a shot at being part of the PAC, especially if they can only grab 2 or fewer XII schools. There are simply not that many available markets for the PAC to expand into (excluding cities in Texas, San Diego is the largest market left to the PAC followed by Vegas) and while Nevada (Reno) is the better school overall, Las Vegas is the country's 42nd largest TV market and adds all of the glitz that Vegas carriers while Reno is not even in the top 100 (#106).

 

[CAHUSKY]

Should everything move to a P4 arrangement with 16 to 20 schools per conference, I think UNLV has a shot at being part of the PAC, especially if they can only grab 2 or fewer XII schools. There are simply not that many available markets for the PAC to expand into (excluding cities in Texas, San Diego is the largest market left to the PAC followed by Vegas) and while Nevada (Reno) is the better school overall, Las Vegas is the country's 42nd largest TV market and adds all of the glitz that Vegas carriers while Reno is not even in the top 100 (#106).

He was talking about the university, not TV markets as far as I could tell. If his point was Vegas has more people than Reno...........great observation.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

With unbalanced schedules in large conferences the regular season title loses some luster because it's an unfair evaluation.
We played all the top teams home and away ,if we had the best record I would have considered it a significant achievement.

 

[DudeOfCT]

Huh? In what universe is UNLV overtaking Nevada? Can you give an example?

Enrollment?
How about a $200MM endowment after 50 years versus a $300MM endowment after 100?
When UNLV was separated from Reno, Reno wasn't even asked its opinion.

 

[TruthNnumbers]

Ok, I was being a bit of a jerk there. Needed my coffee. Here's what I will say on the topic and then we can move on to talking about how insane the idea of UNLV in P5 is.

I don't believe regular season titles should count, but for the purpose of our argument I'll concede to you that most people do count them. But I don't think it's irrational or nonsensical to hold my opinion.

I get the argument that people put forward that says a league title is impressive because it means that you were able to go the distance over 2-3 months and have the best record and that teams just "get hot" and win conference tournaments.

But the inverse argument is that teams miss key players during the season and that skews their win/loss record.

Case in point: this year's UConn team. Temple beat us twice without Amida Brimah en route to a conference title.

When the tournament rolled around and UConn had a fully healthy roster we ultimately won and secured the at-large NCAA bid.

So you can make an argument both ways here and I personally believe that regular season titles don't carry much water in an era of postseason conference tournaments.

Same goes for football. Winning the old 8-team Big East with a shared title was an acceptable definition of winning the league because there was no other way determining who the true champion was (though I would argue that in 2007 our 'shared' title with WVU was kind of BS since they beat us head-to-head).

But nobody would claim that the 6-6 Georgia Tech football team that lost the ACC title game to Florida State in 2012 were "League Champions" just because they won their division.

So why should we give Temple the honor of "League Champs" when they immediately lost in the conference tournament and had to rely on an at-large bid?

It doesn't make sense to me. You can be a great regular season team, but the beauty of sports is that if you can't get it done in the postseason when it matters, then nobody will remember you.

One Love.

I don’t know why I’m getting involved in this or keeping it alive as you are allowed an opinion just like the rest of us. Anyway to your point about injuries; the opposite is just as likely, that a team could have a healthy regular season and then lose a star for the tournament. Neither invalidates or diminishes the title for the team that wins IMO. Also I find it interesting that you give credit to regular season divisional titles but not regular season conference titles or co-titles. Seems they would be the same from your point of view. “But nobody would claim that the 6-6 Georgia Tech football team that lost the ACC title game to Florida State in 2012 were "League Champions" just because they won their division.” : )

 

[31GuardTrap]

Welcome to the Land of Make Believe.

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