UConn 2024 vs UConn 2004

[Mr. French]

I don't think people are forgetting it. I think people have a healthy respect for that team, which was clearly among the best 4 or 5 in the history of the program. And when they were cooking they were scary. But people also had concerns about whether Gordon could be "the guy" as late as the BET that year when Okafor was having back issues. Calhoun was still playing mind games with him through the media. There were 5 or 6 teams thought to have a better shot at winning the whole thing when the tournament started. I think you have to consider the dominance of last year's team, who dogwalked everyone in their path, to the point that some Northwestern alums at our house a few weeks after the tournament were bragging that they only lost by 17 in a game that was 40-18 at halftime.

Totally agree with most of what you said. And I would say definitively that 2024 was more consistent and locked in, and that combined with their dominance gives them the upper hand. But the consensus always seemed to be 04 was the most dominant and talented team ever, just inconsistent. It seems people are losing that mindset the further away it gets.

That team was loaded, it was just more up and down with injuries, etc. Losing Okafor was like 24 losing Clingan plus another starter. Other than Duke in the F4, 04 killed everyone in that tourney. Duke was LOADED beyond anything this years team played. I think overall teams’ talent levels were stronger in 2004.

I’d probably choose 2024 in a series, but I also think there’s recency bias on the board and a bit of young people thinking the athletes were that different 20 years ago. Sophomore Clingan and frosh Castle were incredible, but Okafor was the best player in the country. Ben Gordon was the 3rd overall pick and an instant high level scorer in the NBA. That team was loaded with NBA talent into the bench.

Neither team is smacking the other, in my opinion.

 

[ucp990411]

He was tossed multiple times, Including from a BET game.

When?

 

[Hogoff]

Modern athleticism? 2004 was more athletic and physically stronger than 2024. 2024 was the better team.

Yeah. That was Chat GPT.

 

[Scoe]

2004 wasn’t ancient history don’t try to make me feel old, I’m 41. They would be the 2nd best team in 2024 I’ll give them that. I say the double digit streak does end but maybe not.

 

[Excalibur]

When?

1991 vs. Georgetown.

A quick search also reveals ejections in 1995 vs. Miami, 2002 vs SJU, and 2007 vs. Northeastern.

 

[Excalibur]

Modern athleticism? 2004 was more athletic and physically stronger than 2024. 2024 was the better team.

Castle would probably the the best overall athlete on the floor, but spots 2-4 (at least) go to 2004.

 

[Excalibur]

Also worthy of note, the "23 nor '24 Teams faced a team during their runs as good as the Duke Team the '04 team defeated in the FF.

That team didn't have much shooting outside of Redick. I think you're overrating them.

 

[nomar]

Until this season, 2004 was the best UConn team in my book. I think 2024 was better but I also think people are overlooking the substantial differences in the level of competition the two teams faced.

The starting 5 for the 2004 Duke team we beat in the Final 4:

-Redick
-Deng
-Ewing
-S. Williams
-Duhon

All 5 guys went on to play in the NBA.

As to Excalibur's comment, Ewing and Deng both shot well from the outside. They weren't elite from 3, but they were a very good offensive team. They made 7.1 3/g on 36.4% shooting. This year's UConn team made 8.5 3/g on 35.8% shooting. (2003-04 UConn made 6.4 on 40.2% shooting.)

Who did the 2024 team play with a lineup like that?

 

[OceanDoggie]

That team didn't have much shooting outside of Redick. I think you're overrating them.

Reddick and Daniel Ewing were both better or as good shooting 3's as Cam Spencer.

Loul Deng was not a bad shooter either, and would probably be the best player in that game, if both Teams could play.

 

[yungdowork]

This idea is so crazy. I love Clingan, but the truth is He is no more dominant a defender than Thabeet was. No one thought Thatbeet would shutdown Okafor.

Before you trash Thabeet, 1) National Defensive Player of the Year, 2) #2 NBA Draft pick overall, in a much tougher Draft 3) 7"3" 260lb.

I loved Thabeet because I was huge on us being a premier shot blocking school after Okafor, Boone, Villanueva, Hilton, etc. He really was an elite shot blocker, but he was just an okay rebounder given his size, and really hadn't been refined offensively at all. It's too bad Memphis way overdrafted him, especially considering the roster they had at the time, because I think his draft status made people think he was a bust when in reality he still had a ton to learn about the game of basketball and there was always a decent chance he didn't develop fast enough.

Thabeet had really good timing for a guy his size and probably a better shot blocker at the college level, but Clingan has a more well-rounded defensive game in my personal opinion. Regardless, I think they'd probably leave Clingan on an island vs Okafor just like they did vs Edey. If Okafor went 2004 Final Four on him, what can ya do, it's Emeka.

 

[RuffRuff]

As awesome as Hurley is, Calhoun to me is the best single game coach of all time.
Calhoun is the only coach I can think of that got the better of Coach K.
One game, it's 2004. But 10? I take 2024.
Also, 2006 and any of the 1994-1996 teams would win at least a couple against either. And of course 1999 could be better than both.

Different era. JC ran a star driven iso offense, and taught his kids to be defensive dogs. Master motivator. Offensive genius he was not.

I personally think Danny’s system would run circles around it. It’s a much mote evolved concept. He gets all the same things out of his kids, but with a much more intricate ball sharing, movement offense. JCs teams had to grind for points. Danny’s wears you down and makes it look easy.

 

[giddyup]

No parents in the crowd. Right answer is I love of my kids the same, but 2024 is better

 

[HooperScooper]

He really was an elite shot blocker, but he was just an okay rebounder given his size, and really hadn't been refined offensively at all.

While I wouldn't really argue with any of that, he did average 10.8 rebounds his junior year. Have any UConn players beat that or come close since?

 

[OceanDoggie]

While I wouldn't really argue with any of that, he did average 10.8 rebounds his junior year. Have any UConn players beat that or come close since?

Just Emeka, Art Quimby, and Toby Kimbal (lol).

 

[Excalibur]

Reddick and Daniel Ewing were both better or as good shooting 3's as Cam Spencer.

Loul Deng was not a bad shooter either, and would probably be the best player in that game, if both Teams could play.

I already conceded Redick. Ewing shot a lower % on fewer attempts than Spencer did this year. The following season, when his attempts increased, his % was around 30.

Deng shot 36% on 3 attempts per game.

In general, I think that today’s players are more skilled across the board due to improved instruction at earlier ages. The teams back then were probably better overall, mainly due to the continuity that the portal has now eliminated. We have been an enormous exception to that second trend.

 

[yungdowork]

While I wouldn't really argue with any of that, he did average 10.8 rebounds his junior year. Have any UConn players beat that or come close since?

Him and Emeka are the only ones post like 1975 or something who have top 10 rebounding seasons in UConn history I believe. A lot of our best rebounders in the last 25 years guys left early and generally played less than 30 minutes (Clingan, Villanueva, Boone, Drummond). He grabbed a lot of boards, but he wasn't great at boxing out (DeJuan Blair gave him fits) and didn't have the same nose for the ball as some other guys. He did have 3 of the top 7 seasons in blocks for us too though.

Thabeet had a great career here, no doubt about that, as well as having one of the funniest tweets in UConn basketball twitter history.

 

[OceanDoggie]

I'm probably in the minority here, but when the '23 Team started clicking on all cylinders down the stretch, I think they take the '24 Team in a 7 game series. They really only struggled in Big East play and the Players, Hurley and Staff learned from that experience for the following year.

 

[huskyfever34]

Different era. JC ran a star driven iso offense, and taught his kids to be defensive dogs. Master motivator. Offensive genius he was not.

I personally think Danny’s system would run circles around it. It’s a much mote evolved concept. He gets all the same things out of his kids, but with a much more intricate ball sharing, movement offense. JCs teams had to grind for points. Danny’s wears you down and makes it look easy.

I wouldn't say JC's teams usually had to grind. We were usually great in transition and got some easy hoops. He was good out of timeouts too. 04' averaged 78.8ppg (17th in nation) despite Okafor missing games. This year's team 81.4ppg (23rd in nation). The idea that 04' wasn't that good offensively is wrong. I do agree, though, that Uconn offense has NEVER looked better to me than Danny’s motion offense this season. If 24' were to win I think it would be bc of that.

 

[OceanDoggie]

He grabbed a lot of boards, but he wasn't great at boxing out (DeJuan Blair gave him fits) and didn't have the same nose for the ball as some other guys. He did have 3 of the top 7 seasons in blocks for us too though.

A few points...

• Blair gave him fits the same way lower based guys gave Clingan and sometimes Emeka trouble. It's physiological--think of Hilton and Boone getting killed vs George Mason, while Adrien perfomed very well. Calhoun made Nelson play the last 7 or so minutes after figuring it out .
• Thabeet was a really stiff Guy. It was almost as if he had a spinal fusion on a few discs in childhood. L
• He had a long kneck that didn't turn from the direction of his back. I think he had the "nose" for the ball, but was limited in his agility.
• Agility aside, 'DaBeet was very athletic. If you watch some of his highlight clips back in college you will see he could rim very mucg like Clingan in His freshman year, better than Sonogo and Okafor could.

 

[yungdowork]

A few points...

• Blair gave him fits the same way lower based guys gave Clingan and sometimes Emeka trouble. It's physiological--think of Hilton and Boone getting killed vs George Mason, while Adrien perfomed very well. Calhoun made Nelson play the last 7 or so minutes after figuring it out .
• Thabeet was a really stiff Guy. It was almost as if he had a spinal fusion on a few discs in childhood. L
• He had a long kneck that didn't turn from the direction of his back. I think he had the "nose" for the ball, but was limited in his agility.
• Agility aside, 'DaBeet was very athletic. If you watch some of his highlight clips back in college you will see he could rim very mucg like Clingan in His freshman year, better than Sonogo and Okafor could.

Yeah but if you watched those Pittsburgh games, you saw a lot of Thabeet's issues in real time. In the game in Hartford in 2009, Thabeet got his lunch money stolen by Blair, no doubt about it. Going into the game, it was kinda touted as a great matchup between two of the Big East's premier bigs. Thabeet ended up fouling out with 5 points and 4 rebounds while Blair put up 22 and 23.

I actually think on the flip side, as he grew up a soccer player, his agility was fairly good but it seemed like he never got used to the physicality of guys like Blair. And in 2009, just about every NBA team had a guy like that on their roster.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I already conceded Redick. Ewing shot a lower % on fewer attempts than Spencer did this year. The following season, when his attempts increased, his % was around 30.

Deng shot 36% on 3 attempts per game.

In general, I think that today’s players are more skilled across the board due to improved instruction at earlier ages. The teams back then were probably better overall, mainly due to the continuity that the portal has now eliminated. We have been an enormous exception to that second trend.

I have a working theory that the skills players are learning today aren’t actually making them better players lol.

The individual talent in college basketball the last few years have not been as impressive as it was in the early-mid 2010s and the 2000s.

Same with USA basketball talent in general. This upcoming generation of Edwards, Tatum, and Booker is no where close to the Bron, Kobe, Wade, Carmelo, and KDs. I’m not sure what’s happened to where there’s been this big fall off in American hoopers.

I don’t think anyone on this team as an individual offensive talent was better than any of our players pre-2015 (Ryan Boatright and I’m going to go ahead and not make an argument for JA). Cam Spencer is the best offensive player from this past team I’d probably stack others up with.

 

[Mr. French]

I have a working theory that the skills players are learning today aren’t actually making them better players lol.

The individual talent in college basketball the last few years have not been as impressive as it was in the early-mid 2010s and the 2000s.

Same with USA basketball talent in general. This upcoming generation of Edwards, Tatum, and Booker is no where close to the Bron, Kobe, Wade, Carmelo, and KDs. I’m not sure what’s happened to where there’s been this big fall off in American hoopers.

I don’t think anyone on this team as an individual offensive talent was better than any of our players pre-2015 (Ryan Boatright and I’m going to go ahead and not make an argument for JA). Cam Spencer is the best offensive player from this past team I’d probably stack others up with.

You could get on a soapbox on this topic, and note that all this individual work on moves and dribbling combos isn’t as important as playing ball with high level competition and learning how to play.

I’m not one of these old head types, I’m on board with individual skills training…but I think there’s some truth to that old school mentality and knowing HOW to play that’s been missing.

 

[Deleted at users request]

You could get on a soapbox on this topic, and note that all this individual work on moves and dribbling combos isn’t as important as playing ball with high level competition and learning how to play.

I’m not one of these old head types, I’m on board with individual skills training…but I think there’s some truth to that old school mentality and knowing HOW to play that’s been missing.

Yeah I can write paragraphs on my issues with the things kids are learning these days.

Completely agree with the how to play part. There was a time where every PG who came through our doors was put on the same development plan to become elite decision makers and leaders on a team. The biggest example being Boatright, who was so raw as a PG when he first came in we got moments like this:



To a guy who could win you a game by himself just because he was that good at running the show. Like his predecessors.

I’m going to stop here before I get into things that would involve eye rolls from the board but yeah, the kids are not alright these days.

 

[Scottobot]

This idea is so crazy. I love Clingan, but the truth is He is no more dominant a defender than Thabeet was. No one thought Thatbeet would shutdown Okafor.

Before you trash Thabeet, 1) National Defensive Player of the Year, 2) #2 NBA Draft pick overall, in a much tougher Draft 3) 7"3" 260lb.

Thabeet would have caused problems for Okafor too, but that 2008 team didn’t have the great shooters and offense. Dyson was their best perimeter defender. They might have won a title if he didn’t get hurt.
I think Clingan is better than Thabeet. Clingan moves better, and seems to understand the game better. He is a better screener and passer.

 

[Scottobot]

Different era. JC ran a star driven iso offense, and taught his kids to be defensive dogs. Master motivator. Offensive genius he was not.

I personally think Danny’s system would run circles around it. It’s a much mote evolved concept. He gets all the same things out of his kids, but with a much more intricate ball sharing, movement offense. JCs teams had to grind for points. Danny’s wears you down and makes it look easy.

UConn’s offense scheme the last 2 years is about as good as any I have ever seen. The passing, cuts, assists have just been incredible.

 

[OceanDoggie]

Thabeet would have caused problems for Okafor too, but that 2008 team didn’t have the great shooters and offense. Dyson was their best perimeter defender. They might have won a title if he didn’t get hurt.
I think Clingan is better than Thabeet. Clingan moves better, and seems to understand the game better. He is a better screener and passer.

Being a better player was never a question. Keeping the goalposts at defense, Okafor would not have been shutdown by either player, and Thabeet was the superior Defender and rebounder.

Regarding Clingan's screening and passing, every non-Guard on Hurley's Team will be better screeners and passers than every non-Guard on Calhoun's Team.

What I'd like to see is how well all that screening performs in the half court set when Jim Calhoun calls his 2-2-1 press from the jump, with the newer 30 second shot clock, and time has eaten up.

 

[Five Tooles]

I'll settle it: 5-5.

 

[TheChamps990411]

What’s the opening line?

Best of 10?

Emeka
Taliek
Rashad
Gordon
Charlie

vs

Cam
Newt
Castle
Karaban
Clingan
(System)

I have my opinion, but need some healthy opinions from the crowd to support an argument with a friend.

I want to fight you just for making me think about it

 

[Mr. French]

Being a better player was never a question. Keeping the goalposts at defense, Okafor would not have been shutdown by either player, and Thabeet was the superior Defender and rebounder.

Regarding Clingan's screening and passing, every non-Guard on Hurley's Team will be better screeners and passers than every non-Guard on Calhoun's Team.

What I'd like to see is how well all that screening performs in the half court set when Jim Calhoun calls his 2-2-1 press from the jump, with the newer 30 second shot clock, and time has eaten up.

People should watch these highlights…and some Emeka junior year juuuust in case they forgot how good these guys were…

25, 20 and 9!!! Versus Seton Hall. Every game he had 6 and 7 blocks.

 

[superjohn]

I have a working theory that the skills players are learning today aren’t actually making them better players lol.

The individual talent in college basketball the last few years have not been as impressive as it was in the early-mid 2010s and the 2000s.

Same with USA basketball talent in general. This upcoming generation of Edwards, Tatum, and Booker is no where close to the Bron, Kobe, Wade, Carmelo, and KDs. I’m not sure what’s happened to where there’s been this big fall off in American hoopers.

I don’t think anyone on this team as an individual offensive talent was better than any of our players pre-2015 (Ryan Boatright and I’m going to go ahead and not make an argument for JA). Cam Spencer is the best offensive player from this past team I’d probably stack others up with.

And Michael, Magic, Larry were better than Lebron, Kobe, Wade.

You lost me with nobody on this team as an individual offensive talent was better than any of our players pre-2015. You can't possibly believe that.