Tyler Polley vs. Vance Jackson

[intlzncster]

Vance is an objectively better player than Polley once you take jilted lover emotions out of the equation. However, intangibles matter.

Very true. My above two posts looked at Vance in a vacuum. Intangible factor is key. I don't have a good enough handle on the situation to determine how it would have shaken out of 4 years.

 

[tzznandrew]

Yeah, but Larrier (3) and Vance (4) would be a far better combo than either of those.

Sure, but a lineup of AG-JA-MAL-TL and some center would probably be better than any lineup with TL and VJ.

We'll see. As I said, in the abstract I'd much prefer to have VJ. If there were locker-room issues, though, there's a chance we might come out better for this.

 

[intlzncster]

He was the worst defensive player I can recall at UConn.

He didn't average 4 RPG on a terrible team
in a terrible conference, that is hugely overrated with him.

Hell, he wasn't even the worst defender on his own team. Enoch was atrocious at that end of the court.

One thing is for certain. We lost nothing defensively with these two leaving. It's probably one of those rare addition by subtraction from a defensive standpoint. The caveat to that is we lose Enoch's five fouls.

 

[intlzncster]

Sure, but a lineup of AG-JA-MAL-TL and some center would probably be better than any lineup with TL and VJ.

We'll see. As I said, in the abstract I'd much prefer to have VJ. If there were locker-room issues, though, there's a chance we might come out better for this.

In a vacuum, you are probably right. But we could really use MAL and Vital as back ups to the guards, and rotational at the 3 when Larrier comes out. Remember, we are talking about post ACL Larrier, and post shoulder Gilbert. These guys aren't 35+ minute players this year.

I just think TL is a bit light to defend the four at this point. Maybe not, jmo. He might be able to get to a Daniels stage at some point, but I don't think he's there yet.

 

[intlzncster]

JUCO or postgrad big could help with that, though, if the chemistry can be worked out.

Juco's and post grads are fine chemistry-wise imo. Worked out great with Kromah. It even worked with Gibbs and Miller, just not as well as we hoped. I submit it's because Gibbs was not the player we needed him to be, not from an overall talent standpoint, more from the point of what he was able to do. Ideally, he was a catch and shoot 2 guard vs the run-the-offense, drive and dish PG we needed.

 

[Mooch82]

In a vacuum, you are probably right. But we could really use MAL and Vital as back ups to the guards, and rotational at the 3 when Larrier comes out. Remember, we are talking about post ACL Larrier, and post shoulder Gilbert. These guys aren't 35+ minute players this year.

I just think TL is a bit light to defend the four at this point. Maybe not, jmo. He might be able to get to a Daniels stage at some point, but I don't think he's there yet.

Let's get Blake Harris and then have another backup G for the 3 guard lineup...

 

[JSM1970]

There isn't a single 2018 draft board that has Adams anywhere on it.

I know there is huge bias here, but unless he goes crazy next year I think he's here for 4. Not sure in Larrier. Depends on this upcoming season.

The main issue in the Polley vs. Jackson debate isn't their career talents, it's the "championship window". Our best players, Adams and Larrier, have 2, possibly 1 years left. Ideally, we'd want to be peaking as a team during this year. Resetting the clock with the position (freshman Polley) hurts that, even if he is a better athlete or whatever, unless he's a day 1 stud. Same goes with replacing Enoch with a freshman. Need to have our talent on the same window.

JUCO or postgrad big could help with that, though, if the chemistry can be worked out.

 

[JSM1970]

How do we know yet on Polley vs. Vance? Vance might have been the worst defensive player at UConn in the last 10 years or more.

Yeah, but Larrier (3) and Vance (4) would be a far better combo than either of those.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

How do we know yet on Polley vs. Vance? Vance might have been the worst defensive player at UConn in the last 10 years or more.

Please just stop with this absurd point. He wasn't the worst defensive player at UConn in the past one year.

 

[intlzncster]

How do we know yet on Polley vs. Vance? Vance might have been the worst defensive player at UConn in the last 10 years or more.

Again, not even on his own team. Enoch was far, far worse.

 

[auror]

There isn't a single 2018 draft board that has Adams anywhere on it.

I know there is huge bias here, but unless he goes crazy next year I think he's here for 4. Not sure in Larrier. Depends on this upcoming season.

Yeah I put 1-2 years because of the uncertainty. Not being on draftboards now doesn't really matter, especially if the team is much improved (like we hope, although who knows). Devonte Graham, Thornwell, Monte Morris, Jawun Evans, Jordan Bell, Semi Ojeleye weren't on draftboards last year but they're late 1st, high to mid 2nds now. If Adams feels the push from below, he may bolt either way, even if he's not ensured a pick.

 

[intlzncster]

There isn't a single 2018 draft board that has Adams anywhere on it.

I know there is huge bias here, but unless he goes crazy next year I think he's here for 4. Not sure in Larrier. Depends on this upcoming season.

That's because we finished 16-17, and was still getting his legs as team leader. Wait til he blows up.

You're in a cohort of posters on this board who often look at things as static, not as they could or will be.

 

[pj]

That's because we finished 16-17, and was still getting his legs as team leader. Wait til he blows up.

You're in a cohort of posters on this board who often look at things as static, not as they could or will be.

Jalen got a lot of assists for a guy playing with poor shooting, turnover prone teammates. Playing with a more talented group next year, he'll shine. Winning makes everyone look better. It wouldn't hurt if Jalen got his body more NBA-ready.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

The main issue in the Polley vs. Jackson debate isn't their career talents, it's the "championship window".

I doubt anyone other than the most optimistic starry-eyed believers would think "championship window" for next year. And that would be true even with Jackson. I'd be pleased as punch if we could threaten, but I'm not holding my breath. This is about bringing in the right kids, with the right skills and the right attitude, and developing those skills while playing UConn hoop. You know, the kind where teams get so frustrated on their offensive end that they throw up unanswered prayers at the end of the shot clock, and on the other end their big problem is who should take the ball out of the basket after another make.

Can't tread water. Show me 22 or more wins with a top 2-3 league finish and a win or two in the NCAA tournament and that's the progress I want to see. More = better, and I'll love it if I get it.

 

[Dogbreath2U]

Vance has some good skills and certainly could have been a real asset. As the season wound down, I was concerned that Vance's ceiling was significantly limited by his lack of quickness and lift. Polley seems more athletic and quicker, but who knows what kind of BBIQ he has. We obviously need both smarts and athletic talent and I'm not sure that Vance can significantly improve his quickness.

 

[uconn1999]

Again, not even on his own team. Enoch was far, far worse.

Ok, he was the worst defender that played significant minutes. Enoch was such a train wreck, he was largely kept on the bench

 

[Dove]

Vance Jackson. Who is Vance Jackson?

 

[Coach J]

I posted this the other day on a different thread, but here you go: I'd say ultimately VJ and TP will have similar production - However, TP seems to fit more of the skill-set of the prototypical 3/4 UConn has been able to feature over the years with much success then VJ. He will probably need a year to grow into that ceiling though - think Deandre Daniel's career arc.

Some good video of the 3 new incoming freshmen here: A look at the UConn men’s basketball recruiting class: 2017-18

My take for anyone who cares: Disclaimer if you don't care and fancy yourself as an expert on everything just move on and save yourself the time in analyzing how of-base my analysis is.

MAL - Will be a good 15-20 minute guy keeping both AG and JA fresh next year with little drop-off when they hit the bench or get in foul trouble a big plus over the options KO was left with in such situations this year.

Polley - I've heard some DHam- Deandre Daniels comparisons, but as I watched the video I kept getting flashbacks to Rip Hamilton particularly the way he smoothly finishes at the rim on the break. Not enough video of him shooting to see if his touch and off the ball movement is close to Rip's, but physically and how he finishes he's very similar. I was pleasantly surprised - my guess is he will force himself into getting some major minutes and have some nice scoring games for us.

Carlton - Not a lot of video, but some good points can be drawn from it. He clearly has some understanding of offensive positioning, he has good hands for a big (always a plus), he has good body control attacking the rim, it's unclear how well he boxes out or protects the rim, but he's aggressive to the ball. My guess he will be a useful interior presence next year and not just by default. The soundness of the fundamentals I could pick up on seem to indicate he will be more then adequate in filling minutes for us at the 5 or 4.

Cobb - Not on video in the link above, but I've watched him play and supposedly he has slimmed down some but I think the number one thing he will bring to us is some interior toughness - how many productive minutes he will be able to give us per night playing with 4 jets most of the time remains to be seem, but he is a necessary piece we have been lacking the last several years.

Hopefully more to come, now that Chillious is on board!

 

[tzznandrew]

Juco's and post grads are fine chemistry-wise imo. Worked out great with Kromah. It even worked with Gibbs and Miller, just not as well as we hoped. I submit it's because Gibbs was not the player we needed him to be, not from an overall talent standpoint, more from the point of what he was able to do. Ideally, he was a catch and shoot 2 guard vs the run-the-offense, drive and dish PG we needed.

If Gibbs played beside a player like Shabazz, we'd love him here. As it was, he was a strong shooter, strong mentor, and loved the university. I have nothing but love for Miller and Gibbs.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Sure, but a lineup of AG-JA-MAL-TL and some center would probably be better than any lineup with TL and VJ.

Aside from the fact that none of those guys can shoot.

The loss of Jackson takes away the one element we can't easily replace with the returning guys.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Juco's and post grads are fine chemistry-wise imo. Worked out great with Kromah. It even worked with Gibbs and Miller, just not as well as we hoped. I submit it's because Gibbs was not the player we needed him to be, not from an overall talent standpoint, more from the point of what he was able to do. Ideally, he was a catch and shoot 2 guard vs the run-the-offense, drive and dish PG we needed.

On Gibbs you're absolutely right.

The problem was it took KO 30 games to see something the rest of us could diagnose in 10. Adams should have been the primary PG, with Gibbs/Purvis/Hamilton at the 2/3.

Between Adams/Gibbs/Purvis/Hamilton/Miller, our talent at the 1-4 was exceptional. That team should have been so much better.

 

[tzznandrew]

Aside from the fact that none of those guys can shoot.

The loss of Jackson takes away the one element we can't easily replace with the returning guys.

Gilbert was known as a shooter in high school, IIRC, and I'm not going to read much into his shooting in 3 games to start the year.

Adams shot 35% from 3 despite being exhausted the whole year and taking a ton of bail out shots.

Larrier, from the 4, wouldn't need to shoot a ton, but I'm not going to read too much into his 4 games here. He shot very poorly his freshman year at VCU, to be sure, but most players don't shoot well as freshmen, even players who turn into fantastic shooters.

MAL hasn't played a game yet, so I'm not going to say he can't shoot. Seems silly to go there. Also, replace one of the three guards with CV and my point still stands.

 

[tzznandrew]

On Gibbs you're absolutely right.

The problem was it took KO 30 games to see something the rest of us could diagnose in 10. Adams should have been the primary PG, with Gibbs/Purvis/Hamilton at the 2/3.

Between Adams/Gibbs/Purvis/Hamilton/Miller, our talent at the 1-4 was exceptional. That team should have been so much better.

Yeah, I think he got stuck both overestimating Gibbs' ability to take defenders off the dribble and wanting to ease Jalen in off the bench.

I understand both of them, and Jalen wasn't a perfect point guard, but the lineups of Adams-Gibbs at the 1-2 and then some combination of Purvis/Hamilton/Miller/Brimah were the best, and he was too stuck in his idea of the team to focus on the actual reality.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Gilbert was known as a shooter in high school, IIRC, and I'm not going to read much into his shooting in 3 games to start the year.

Adams shot 35% from 3 despite being exhausted the whole year and taking a ton of bail out shots.

Larrier, from the 4, wouldn't need to shoot a ton, but I'm not going to read too much into his 4 games here. He shot very poorly his freshman year at VCU, to be sure, but most players don't shoot well as freshmen, even players who turn into fantastic shooters.

MAL hasn't played a game yet, so I'm not going to say he can't shoot. Seems silly to go there. Also, replace one of the three guards with CV and my point still stands.

Vital helps, for sure. But everyone else is a drive-first guard or wing. Too many of those and you just invite the defense to pack it in a tight zone and dare us to shoot over them. Jackson could have done that.

 

[intlzncster]

On Gibbs you're absolutely right.

The problem was it took KO 30 games to see something the rest of us could diagnose in 10. Adams should have been the primary PG, with Gibbs/Purvis/Hamilton at the 2/3.

Between Adams/Gibbs/Purvis/Hamilton/Miller, our talent at the 1-4 was exceptional. That team should have been so much better.

Yes, I think this was a young coach mistake here. Hoping Ollie acknowledges (to himself) and learns from this sort of thing. This off season is showing that he does have the ability to change course, even if it requires hard choices. I'm hoping this carries over to game situations as well. Guy has plenty of room to grow.

 

[tzznandrew]

Vital helps, for sure. But everyone else is a drive-first guard or wing. Too many of those and you just invite the defense to pack it in a tight zone and dare us to shoot over them. Jackson could have done that.

Adams shot 35%. He'll likely get better, especially if he has more options.

Gilbert/MAL/TL are small (to no) sample size at the moment. I'm not writing any of them off as shooters, especially when one (Gilbert) came in with a rep as a good shooter.

I liked Jackson, but I'm not as high on him as some others, it seems. You are right, though. He would certainly be a slam dunk as a kick-out in a 3 guard lineup. Yet, given what has been expressed, his camp would prefer him to be the one initiating offense.

 

[intlzncster]

He would certainly be a slam dunk as a kick-out in a 3 guard lineup. Yet, given what has been expressed, his camp would prefer him to be the one initiating offense.

Ah, the dreaded point forward. Errybody wanna be LeBron. Only guy I remember really pulling it off recently was that kid from Iowa State who was injured against us in 2014. Niang or something like that.

 

[tzznandrew]

Ah, the dreaded point forward. Errybody wanna be LeBron. Only guy I remember really pulling it off recently was that kid from Iowa State who was injured against us in 2014. Niang or something like that.

Giannis Atemdlafkjsdfajgasmpko does that for Milwaukee, in a way. Huge dude, on D works the post, runs the O on offense.

I was at the Milwaukee-Boston game Wednesday (sans Dre, Chief and b¡thces, to be clear) and he was stunning in person. Did everything.

 

[intlzncster]

Giannis Atemdlafkjsdfajgasmpko does that for Milwaukee, in a way. Huge dude, on D works the post, runs the O on offense.

I was at the Milwaukee-Boston game Wednesday (sans Dre, Chief and b¡thces, to be clear) and he was stunning in person. Did everything.

Yep, was just thinking of college. I'm not extremely knowledgeable about the NBA (I watch some), so I don't usually comment on it. The games are so different anyway.

Those guys aren't a dime a dozen, that's for sure.

 

[BUConn10]

The biggest loss from the Vance transfer despite how you feel about all of the drama surrounding it is that we just lost our arguably most reliable spot up 3pt shooter, leaving us with little very reliable outside shooting on an offensive system that is predicated on having reliable shooters from deep, not like we are going inside very often.