Turn off the GAME clock with 4 minutes to go? interesting!

[bags27]

This was on NPR this afternoon. A really, really interesting suggestion. Hold off judgment (I didn't!) until it's over. Really provocative and a lot of fun. Highly recommended. Podcast is a lot more fun than just reading the text.

Doesn't strike me as exceptionally urgent for WCBB, and I think that 4 minutes before the end is too long (though Elam has the statistics, apparently, and I only have impressions). My gut tells me it should be with 2 minutes to go (and still the 7 point target).

A Mensa Member's Decade-Long Quest To Fix Basketball

 

[Kaizen]

I turned off the game clock with 23 mins to go in last night's NBA playoff game between Celtics and Cavaliers.

 

[Sonny44]

This was on NPR this afternoon. A really, really interesting suggestion. Hold off judgment (I didn't!) until it's over. Really provocative and a lot of fun. Highly recommended. Podcast is a lot more fun than just reading the text.

Doesn't strike me as exceptionally urgent for WCBB, and I think that 4 minutes before the end is too long (though Elam has the statistics, apparently, and I only have impressions). My gut tells me it should be with 2 minutes to go (and still the 7 point target).

A Mensa Member's Decade-Long Quest To Fix Basketball

I think it's worth a try.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I turned off the game clock with 23 mins to go in last night's NBA playoff game between Celtics and Cavaliers.

I like this---but I turn off my watching the game and it's clock!! Great, love this.

However turning off the Game Clock has merit but 4 minutes is a very long game time--I'd be happy with 2 minutes and allow the Coaching staffs to use their brains and talent to defeat the opponent---and not the clock or delaying tactics. One of my most
vehement comments at games end--is--foul after foul after foul---with a team 15 points behind and getting more behind--the fans, viewers suffer waiting for the end---. This is more an issue when they are delaying the start of the next TV game.

 

[BroadwayVa]

This was on NPR this afternoon. A really, really interesting suggestion. Hold off judgment (I didn't!) until it's over. Really provocative and a lot of fun. Highly recommended. Podcast is a lot more fun than just reading the text.

Doesn't strike me as exceptionally urgent for WCBB, and I think that 4 minutes before the end is too long (though Elam has the statistics, apparently, and I only have impressions). My gut tells me it should be with 2 minutes to go (and still the 7 point target).

A Mensa Member's Decade-Long Quest To Fix Basketball

my

Leave it to you to find a Mensa Member's Long Quest----my opinion chimes in with yours ---great find thanks.

 

[McFly]

Sounds good, and as Sonny said, it's worth a try. But I wonder if it just might move the fouling to before the clock is shut off. Might still need additional penalties as the clock is winding down. Something has to be done to improve the flow of the game.
As bags said, not exceptionally urgent for the women's game. Especially a UConn women's game: when a team is down by 25 or 30, they probably don't want to prolong the agony.

 

[UConner]

Sounds good, and as Sonny said, it's worth a try. But I wonder if it just might move the fouling to before the clock is shut off. Might still need additional penalties as the clock is winding down. Something has to be done to improve the flow of the game.
As bags said, not exceptionally urgent for the women's game. Especially a UConn women's game: when a team is down by 25 or 30, they probably don't want to prolong the agony.

I guess you all aren't old enough to remember North Carolina's 4 corner time killer with 5 minutes left and a 4 point lead. That lead to the time clock.

 

[McFly]

I guess you all aren't old enough to remember North Carolina's 4 corner time killer with 5 minutes left and a 4 point lead. That lead to the time clock.

That gave me a bit of a chuckle. Speaking just for myself, I don't remember that, but probably not because I'm not old enough. I do remember listening to Holy Cross games on the radio with my father, when Bob Cousy would "freeze" the ball for extended periods.

 

[drweo]

I like it that someone thought of this and that someone is trying it out in actual competition. The end-game option we have now is pitiful. The only surprising thing about it is that in these days of "analytics" it was someone outside of official basketball worlds who did the numbers to show that the current end-game scenario (foul-foul-foul) just doesnt work.

 

[Bliss]

I guess you all aren't old enough to remember North Carolina's 4 corner time killer with 5 minutes left and a 4 point lead. That lead to the time clock.

I remember Dean Smith's 4-corner offense. Very effective but coma inducing. Hooray for the shot clock. Now if they would only do something about end-of-game times out and fouls. It's like the NFL's remaining 2 minutes that take more like 20.

 

[JordyG]

Frankly, because most players at the college and pro level are such poor foul shooters, making a team shoot FT's instead of easy layups would be a cottage industry under these rules. I'd foul until my team limit was reached, using my bench if necessary, and make their worst foul shooters beat me to 7.

 

[BroadwayVa]

That gave me a bit of a chuckle. Speaking just for myself, I don't remember that, but probably not because I'm not old enough. I do remember listening to Holy Cross games on the radio with my father, when Bob Cousy would "freeze" the ball for extended periods.

NC

Frankly, because most players at the college and pro level are such poor foul shooters, making a team shoot FT's instead of easy layups would be a cottage industry under these rules. I'd foul until my team limit was reached, using my bench if necessary, and make their worst foul shooters beat me to 7.

Jordy--Didn't Uconn men do that to Kentucky in the NCAA's within the last 10 years? Put them on the line--and beat their big line up

McFly---Dean Smith came up with 4 corners --used usually in the last 5 minutes of a tight game--and stalled--no clock--begging the opponents to foul them- It worked too well--and unfortunately (my opinion) the clock was mandated. Uconn Men playing URI for the Yankee Conf, undermanned, used the stall and beat URI for the Yankee Conf title--Score at half time was (I think) 7 to 5---I loved the game-listened to it on radio WTIC---the tension was--who would screw up first--and it wasn't UConn.

 

[Zorro]

Sounds like a good idea. Alternatively, treat those deliberate fouls as deliberate fouls and give the fouled team two shots and the ball.

 

[Woof 101]

I get the Mensa thing and this is an interesting thread (should it have a song? ) All fun aside, I have begged for years to have officials solve the problem they have created. Twice the article states what the problem is and it has nothing to do with the clock. "The team trailing fouls on purpose" and "maybe the penalties should be harsher for deliberate fouls."

It is obvious to every set of eyes on the game that someone is intentionally fouling the officials have to start calling it. Players running after and bear hugging the opponent is an intentional foul almost never called. When a team knows they are going to give up not only foul shots but also the ball it will stop. No rocket science needed on this one.
It does not take a high IQ to solve this problem just officials with basketballs to make the calls they should. If most fouls witnessed in the last two minutes of any basketball game men's or woman's were committed in the first 38 minutes a flagrant or intentional foul would be called.

Governing bodies of the sport could bail out the officials by calling all fouls in the last two minutes intentional, but that would be as silly as having the clock rendered meaningless at the end of a game. That and discredit an honest defensive effort. Officials have to simply start calling defensive players chasing offensive players flailing at them with no intention of getting near the ball / bear hugging what it is...... Intentional.
My two cents ....

 

[Roger G]

Interesting, yes. I'll be looking forward to watching this play out on the court in June. The fact that the intentional fouling at the end of the game only works one percent of the time really caught my attention. Yet we all sit there like dolts hoping our team will come back once it has started.

 

[jimazee]

It is worth a try.

It may need tinkering at various levels of competition (exhibition, youth, HS/college/pro, playoffs, tourneys, etc) and types of games...but the "model" enables that. Things such as different duration, points, other tweaks can be selectively applied...even temporarily.

Interesting at least but potentially "revolutionary" at most...

 

[oldude]

Agree that the end of many MBB games are painfully ugly to watch. Suggestions are all very interesting but the simple solution is hiding in plain sight in the difference between the men's & women's game. In WBB when you reach the foul limit, you get 2 shots, not 1&1. There is a completely different dynamic in play when you give a player 2 chances to hit a foul shot. Even a bad shooter will almost always make 1 out of 2.

IMO, coaches would be far less inclined to have their teams foul at the end of games if the other team is guaranteed 2 shots on every foul over the limit.

 

[jimazee]

Agree that the end of many MBB games are painfully ugly to watch. Suggestions are all very interesting but the simple solution is hiding in plain sight in the difference between the men's & women's game. In WBB when you reach the foul limit, you get 2 shots, not 1&1. There is a completely different dynamic in play when you give a player 2 chances to hit a foul shot. Even a bad shooter will almost always make 1 out of 2.

IMO, coaches would be far less inclined to have their teams foul at the end of games if the other team is guaranteed 2 shots on every foul over the limit.

True...it (as the notion of calling more deliberates, which might be more effective) would improve the current situation, but not as dramatically as variations on the OP.

I'm curious which approaches would result in more interesting games...and I haven't tried to think it through too much...I'd like to see variations on the OP stuff tried and tweaked (e.g. maybe 2 minutes is better than 4 or maybe it's 3) in things like this tourney before the national championship to see the results.

Again, it could be interesting...

 

[BroadwayVa]

I get the Mensa thing and this is an interesting thread (should it have a song? ) All fun aside, I have begged for years to have officials solve the problem they have created. Twice the article states what the problem is and it has nothing to do with the clock. "The team trailing fouls on purpose" and "maybe the penalties should be harsher for deliberate fouls."

It is obvious to every set of eyes on the game that someone is intentionally fouling the officials have to start calling it. Players running after and bear hugging the opponent is an intentional foul almost never called. When a team knows they are going to give up not only foul shots but also the ball it will stop. No rocket science needed on this one.
It does not take a high IQ to solve this problem just officials with basketballs to make the calls they should. If most fouls witnessed in the last two minutes of any basketball game men's or woman's were committed in the first 38 minutes a flagrant or intentional foul would be called.

Governing bodies of the sport could bail out the officials by calling all fouls in the last two minutes intentional, but that would be as silly as having the clock rendered meaningless at the end of a game. That and discredit an honest defensive effort. Officials have to simply start calling defensive players chasing offensive players flailing at them with no intention of getting near the ball / bear hugging what it is. Intentional.
My two cents ....

your two cent are worth millions if you can get the leagues/NCAA to dictate that the refs must enforce those rules already in the books. Intentional fouls are exactly what is occurring at games end and slowing the end from coming. There is no other words for many of the fouls that are committed--INTENTIONAL.
FULL AGREEMENT---now how to get it done?? The problem in getting this accomplished is the Coaching staffs that want to foul in hopes of misses and thereby overtaking the then winning team. I believe enforce rules or remove them---having them without enforcement--is frustrating for those who know the rules--or sending a wrong message-you don't have to live by the rules.