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I had not seen Coach Diaco's recruiting philosophy. "Fortune favors the bold!" If you are good enough, they will come!
Tuberville wants home and home to play Crimson tide
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FfldCntyFan
Texas: Property of UConn Men's Basketball program
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You missed the point of my post entirely.
The advantage of the fertile recruiting ground is that it is an incentive for a name school (Oklahoma for example) to visit a school they normally would not comsider (Cincinnati in this case as Stoops stated a major reason for the visit was that up to that point he had done little recruiting in him home state and the program could benefit if they did start recruiting there).
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If I'm Warde Manuel, I take one game a year on the road against a top school like Alabama, in exchange for (a) $2 million plus (b) TV rights in New England and New York. I use the $2 million to buy a home game from a MAC school, or Stony Brook, or UMass. I sell the TV rights through SNY, or to national broadcasters if they pick up the game. We get people in our footprint seeing us play top national teams, we make some money, and we still have 6 home games a year. And it is giving us a chance to start knocking off top ten teams.
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Conference rights are sold in advance, but out of conference rights are generally not sold in advance; many are sold regionally with reservations in case the game is picked up nationally. If Alabama-UConn is picked up nationally, then UConn gets a share in exchange for the NY-NE market value; if it is not, Alabama sells theirs regionally and UConn sells in its region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_on_CBS "Today CBS airs the top SEC weekly in-conference games as well as rivalry games with various other conferences when the SEC team is the home team. The network shares the rights to SEC conference games with the ESPN family of networks, which also airs the interconference rivalry games when the SEC team is not the home team (with the exception of Notre Dame), as well as all Pacific-12-SEC regular season games." Nothing here about Alabama having pre-sold an Alabama-UConn game that has not yet been scheduled and is not a rivalry game.
As for why they would pay, they make a lot more than that from home attendance, and they are having trouble getting a home only game against an attractive school. UConn for $2 mn and some out of region TV rights is a better game than Savannah State for $1.5 mn.
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whaler11
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You are grossly misinterpreting how the television contracts work. ESPN and CBS own all the SEC home games, not just in-conference matchups. Alabama has no television rights to assign to anyone, they don't own them.
I hope Warde saw your post though. I'm sure demanding 2+ million dollars would go over well.
Ohio State spent 2 million for three games this season. Cinci gets 900k from the Buckeyes.
Nobody is getting 2+ million one off guarantees.
These are the SEC television deals:
The SEC has a network TV contract with CBS, a national cable deal with ESPN Networks and a new conference branded network called the SEC Network, which is completely owned by ESPN.
CBS has the rights to 12-15 regular season games and the conference championship. Up to two of those games can be non-conference games. CBS will always have the top choice of SEC games on a weekly basis. When CBS does a doubleheader that includes a primetime game, CBS can choose the top two games on a given weekend. When they do a doubleheader that includes a 12pm game, it must allow ESPN to reserve two games before selecting their next game. In 2014, CBS will no longer retain exclusivity in their telecast windows. The SEC Network will be allowed to air a game concurrently with CBS.
ESPN Networks has the rights to remaining SEC home games, primarily prime time telecasts. A content board will be established to determine which games will air on ESPN and the SEC Network. The plan is to air a tripleheader of games every week. It is not yet known whether there will overflow or alternate feeds of the network to allow for multiple games to air in a single telecast window.
FOX Sports Net will carry eight games in 2014. Their sublicense deal ends after the 2014-2015 athletic year and will not be renewed.
whaler11
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If you are impressed by completely wrong then sure. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Aresco didn't know either.
whaler11
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In case you were wondering about the American it boils down to this:
The American Athletic Conference has a contract with ESPN Networks for all of their football television rights. ABC/ESPN will guarantee the conference a minimum of 28 games to air on ABC, ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU. Games may also appear on ESPNEWS and ESPN3.
ESPN has elected to sublicense 13-15 games per year to CBS Sports Network.
The contract with ESPN, along with ESPN's sublicense agreement with CBS Sports Network, end after the 2019-2020 athletic year.
The American Athletic Conference has a contract with ESPN Networks for all of their football television rights. ABC/ESPN will guarantee the conference a minimum of 28 games to air on ABC, ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU. Games may also appear on ESPNEWS and ESPN3.
ESPN has elected to sublicense 13-15 games per year to CBS Sports Network.
The contract with ESPN, along with ESPN's sublicense agreement with CBS Sports Network, end after the 2019-2020 athletic year.
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You are correct. I totally missed the point. This thread is about either Cincy or UCONN, two teams that would give their first borns to get into a Power 5 conference. Why? because they both believe they are worthy. If I hear you right, you are communicating that the North East is not very fertile recruiting ground for an SEC or Big 12 team? Who gives a rats a** Excuse me for sounding clueless but I have no idea what that has to do with UCONN or Cincy playing Alabama. I have a pretty good feeling that Alabama has zero recruiting issues. At the end of the day an Alabama UCONN game, no matter where it is would raise keen awareness for our program similar to when we played Notre Dame and Michigan. To say nothing of the revenue this game would produce for UCONN! The only downside of playing Bama is that it is almost and automatic loss on the schedule. So a cost-benefit analysis would have to be performed to weigh the value of playing Alabama!
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You are definitely smarter than a fifth grader! But Mike Aresco, I don't think so!
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I appreciate your enthusiasm and optimism but you're being too much of a homer to get to the reality of the situation.
Yes, UConn would love to play Bama.
Reality: there's nothing in it for Bama. Yes, playing LA-Monroe makes much more sense. It makes no sense for them to come north. They don't need the mythical "NYC exposure" for their football program. They don't recruit the Northeast (and yes, that matters when you schedule road games OOC). And if you think the football team is going to play us because of the popularity and success of our hoops program, well I don't know what to tell you.
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5 years ago, guarantee games were routinely in the $550k to $700k range for lower tier schools like Delaware State, Western Kentucky, and Montana State, and Charleston Southern, and $1 million for schools like Navy (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2009-09-02-smallschool_payoffs_N.htm). Payouts have inflated significantly since along with the rise in TV rights. In 2012 UMass -- UMass! -- which was not even bowl eligible yet during its upgrade from FCS, got over $1 mn each for two one-off guarantee games (http://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/index.ssf/2012/04/umass_football_in_line_for_mor.html). UConn is worth significantly more, and here time is very short, there are few options for Alabama (or UConn for the other half of the deal), so this particular deal will command a premium. But, if my numbers were off, then just scale everything down. The point is that UConn can get more from Alabama than it would cost to buy a home opponent. Buy UMass for $1 mn and get $1.5 mn from Alabama. We make a profit and have the same number of home games.
Re TV rights, maybe Alabama has sold all their OOC home games even before scheduling them. If so, this proposal wouldn't work, at least not with the terms I outlined, unless ESPN and CBS agreed. But I haven't seen any stories stating that that is the case; and that is not the normal way TV contracts work. Usually networks find out what the matchup is before buying rights. Maybe in the conference network era things are changing.
Regardless, you are rude and present no evidence for your assertions, which are essentially wrong. In business, there is always a way to get a deal done, if it makes sense.
My proposal does make sense, because college football is splitting into tiers, with bigger gaps between the tiers. Instead of home-and-homes (which are relationships of equals), we will see more guarantee games so that top-tier schools can get their $3-5 mn per home game ($20-40 mn per 8 game home schedule) from the networks, and they can afford to buy schools at the G5 level now with that money. In turn G5 schools with revenue picked up from guarantee games can buy guarantee games from lower-level FCS or G5 schools. I predict you'll see a lot of these deals going forward. UConn might as well get it started. At least it has a chance to get on national TV playing Alabama, and maybe pull off an upset.
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whaler11
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Ask for TV rights? Can't do it. Literally everyone but you gets this because you are misinterpreting a poorly worded wikipedia page.
Ask for 2+ million? Cincinnati is getting 900k from Ohio St. Nobody has gotten anything near 2 million. The highest amount I can find for anyone is a million. So yes, the market has yielded more - but you are calling for a 100+% increase on top of your mythical television rights.
You've invented some value for UConn to Alabama that doesn't exist. To Alabama playing UConn is no different than playing Louisiana-Monroe. Just another road apple.
The P5 isn't going through the trouble of taking all the money from the G5 to then redistribute it through guarantee games. They are going out of their way to make SOS a huge part of the playoff selection and require their conferences to play the other P5 conference.
They are clearly trying to reduce the cost of those games - because there will be fewer dates and less demand and the G5/FCS schools provide more than enough supply.
So if pointing out that your 'business' assumptions are 100% totally and completely wrong is rude - I'll have to live with that. You don't even get the simple mechanics of television rights - so why would anything else you dream up have any basis in reality?
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With the introduction of the SEC network, Alabama and the SEC have Millions of reasons to consider playing UCONN and gaining exposure in the Northeast/NY area.
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...st-lucrative-sports-network-in-country-072214
So for that reason alone Alabama and the exposure for the SEC network has value. Sports fans across the USA know who UCONN is especially after two more National Champships this year. UCONN is a hot commodity. Successful hoops helps the UCONN brand and let's face it, hoops success propelled UCONN into D-1 football a little over a decade ago. UCONN is a National brand!
The question is, if Ward Manual made the call to Bill Battle, would Alabama want to discuss playing UCONN? I believe Alabama would consider it. Why? Simply stated, UCONN's brand has value. They are kicking at the door of a P-5 conference. Frank the Tank wrote about various teams overall brand value for the Big 12 to consider for expansion purposes. UCONN ranked right up their in the upper quadrant. As far as the Big 12 was concerned, obviously Cincinnati was considered to have the highest brand value for the Big 12. So IF Bama is looking to take on a OOC opponent and Tubberville says NO, then perhaps UCONN should enter into discussions. For Bama, I agree that Cincy and Tuberville would be a better choice but UCONN would be a credible 2nd choice.
CONNECTICUT
Football Brand Value – 20
National TV Value – 10
Local TV Value – 7
Demographics/Recruiting Value – 0
Academics – 5
Basketball Value – 5
Geographic Fit/Need – 0
Tremendous Upside Potential/Monopoly Power – 10
Total: 57
Overview: In a vacuum, UConn is arguably the most power conference-like school that isn’t in a power conference today. If this were an ACC Expansion Index, then UConn would be close to a perfect score. Frankly, there’s still a part of me that’s surprised that UConn isn’t in the ACC already, but I perfectly understand why Louisville got the nod last year. The problem with the prospect of UConn going to the Big 12 is that it’s not a good fit for what the conference is seeking in expansion. UConn has actually performed aptly in football over the past decade outside of the last couple of years, yet the New England region is a black hole when it comes for football recruiting (particularly considering how it’s a high population area) and the school’s men’s and women’s basketball prowess probably has the least value to the Big 12 out of any of the power conferences (as hoops mainly benefit conferences that either have networks like the Big Ten has or strong basketball syndication deals like the ACC). Now, UConn’s Big East pedigree and relatively strong brand name means that the school has a large amount of upside, but it may not matter to the Big 12 with Connecticut being so far geographically from the conference’s core.
With the advent of the SEC network, a UCONN-Alabama basketball series could have considerable monetary value. Recruiting as is the case with the B12 would be more important in a conference situation than a one off game.
CINCINNATI
Football Brand Value – 30
National TV Value – 15
Local TV Value – 7
Demographics/Recruiting Value – 20
Academics – 3
Basketball Value – 5
Geographic Fit/Need – 5
Tremendous Upside Potential/Monopoly Power – 5
Total: 90
Overview: I’ve been mentioning Cincinnati as a strong Big 12 expansion candidate for awhile, but it wasn’t until constructing this index did I see how the school really does hit virtually every metric that the conference should be seeking. Among the Group of Five schools, its Football Brand Value is strong with multiple BCS bowl appearances and consistent performances over the past several years despite a number of coaching changes. The state of Ohio is a football recruiting powerhouse with only one in-state power conference competitor (albeit a massive one in the form of Ohio State). The school’s academics are solid, it has a great basketball history and its location is in a major market with probably the best geographic bridge to West Virginia of any viable candidate. The only question with Cincinnati is whether it can really perform any better on-the-field that it already has in football during the past few years. Still, that’s a minor issue compared to how the school has created a consistently competitive football program.
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Whaler,
The link I gave you showed that UMass is getting $1.25 million from Florida for a guarantee game. UConn is worth more. Period. I don't care what the precise number is, and it's not relevant to my proposal since whatever it is, UConn could get a guarantee game opponent for less.
As it happens, there have been $2 million payouts. Nebraska paid $2.1 million to move a game with Southern Mississippi to Lincoln.
You are wrong on the goals of P5 schools: increasing the number of home games through guarantee games is a major strategic goal. Michigan increased its home schedule to 8 games for that reason. Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm...-valuable-teams-texas-longhorns-still-on-top/) has written:
The P5 is out to maximize revenue, but redistributing a bit of it through guarantee games is the way to do it. They gain over $6 mn from an additional home game even before television rights are considered, so a $2 mn guarantee game payout is a cheap way to add well over $4 mn to income.
You are wrong on the television rights. Regional distribution through the distribution channels of both home and visiting team is routine on games that are not picked up nationally. You have claimed that all Alabama games are picked up nationally regardless of opponent, but offered no evidence of that statement. You have claimed that UConn is no more valuable an opponent than Louisiana-Monroe, again with no evidence. If that is true, then if any game would not be picked up nationally, the UConn game would not, therefore it would likely be distributed regionally in the northeast via SNY or local channels.
The link I gave you showed that UMass is getting $1.25 million from Florida for a guarantee game. UConn is worth more. Period. I don't care what the precise number is, and it's not relevant to my proposal since whatever it is, UConn could get a guarantee game opponent for less.
As it happens, there have been $2 million payouts. Nebraska paid $2.1 million to move a game with Southern Mississippi to Lincoln.
You are wrong on the goals of P5 schools: increasing the number of home games through guarantee games is a major strategic goal. Michigan increased its home schedule to 8 games for that reason. Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm...-valuable-teams-texas-longhorns-still-on-top/) has written:
Home games are the lifeblood of college football’s most financially successful teams. Almost every school-specific revenue stream – ticket sales, contributions, sponsorships, merchandise – is at least partly influenced by a team’s number of home games.... Michigan has unseated Notre Dame for the No. 2 spot on our list thanks to a 28% increase in value. The Wolverines, now worth $120 million, were one of just three teams on our list to play eight home games last season (the others being No. 9 Tennessee and No. 15 Oregon). That eighth game alone generated more than $6 million for Michigan’s football coffers.... Oregon went from six home games in 2010 to eight last season, surging up to No. 15 on our list with a value of $74 million.
The P5 is out to maximize revenue, but redistributing a bit of it through guarantee games is the way to do it. They gain over $6 mn from an additional home game even before television rights are considered, so a $2 mn guarantee game payout is a cheap way to add well over $4 mn to income.
You are wrong on the television rights. Regional distribution through the distribution channels of both home and visiting team is routine on games that are not picked up nationally. You have claimed that all Alabama games are picked up nationally regardless of opponent, but offered no evidence of that statement. You have claimed that UConn is no more valuable an opponent than Louisiana-Monroe, again with no evidence. If that is true, then if any game would not be picked up nationally, the UConn game would not, therefore it would likely be distributed regionally in the northeast via SNY or local channels.
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And ... more on the importance of home games from kyleslamb, http://the-boneyard.com/threads/det...governance-proposal.62383/page-2#post-1019984:
I.e., they need guarantee games with non-power schools. Since that's what they're seeking, why not figure out an advantageous way to sell it to them?
"[the P5 have] ditched the additional subdivision (for now) because the power schools decided they wanted to keep 7-8 home games a year and needed the non-power schools to make that work"
I.e., they need guarantee games with non-power schools. Since that's what they're seeking, why not figure out an advantageous way to sell it to them?
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CL82
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They can have Gino as long we keep Geno.
I doubt this guy has any idea how much Auriemma is paid or what a sweet deal it is coaching WBB at Storrs.
whaler11
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Of course you can sell them games, but UConn isn't going to get double what everyone else gets. To Alabama they are no different from 40 other schools.
Selling games gives you fewer games to have at home, and if you sell games to teams you lose to 90% of the time it makes going bowling that much more difficult. When you have a season that is FCS/MAC/4 AAC home games good luck with selling tickets to that.
I'm not sure what you think would be accomplished. UConn goes to Alabama and gets their a**es handed to them. They get some money for their trouble - is the goal to run a MEAC basketball program?
UConn is 13-23 the last three seasons. They have more pressing matters than what CFB superpower they can auction themselves to.
Warde's spot in football scheduling is very difficult. Don't help anyone's SOS, no national interest or tradition, don't have fertile recruiting grounds and the P5 tie up their schedules with FCS and other P5 games.
A school like Alabama is going to play 8 SEC, FCS, 1-2 home buy games 1 or 2 P5 interconference game every year. The demand for G5 schools to sell games is not nearly as big as you think.
This year Alabama bought FAU and Southern Miss. To Alabama those schools are no different than UConn.
Here is what Southern Miss gets for showing up for the slaughter:
Nebraska in 2015 will pay $700,000; a game at LSU in 2016 will pay $950,000; and the 2017 season opener in Knoxville will net the Golden Eagles another $850,000.
whaler11
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The SEC does not have a single game that is going to be distributed regionally beyond the 8 games that are already sublet to FSN.
The whole thing is already sold.
ESPN owns everything beyond the CBS games. If they didn't put a game on the SEC network and it was distributed regionally that would be ESPN selling the rights not the schools. Guess what they are never going to do.
In the Big East there were Tier 3 games that the schools retained the rights to. No school in the Pac 12, Big 10, ACC or SEC has that situation today.
The Big 12 might still have a handful of games they can sell. But they are bottom of the barrel games and would never be games against P5 schools.
The whole thing is already sold.
ESPN owns everything beyond the CBS games. If they didn't put a game on the SEC network and it was distributed regionally that would be ESPN selling the rights not the schools. Guess what they are never going to do.
In the Big East there were Tier 3 games that the schools retained the rights to. No school in the Pac 12, Big 10, ACC or SEC has that situation today.
The Big 12 might still have a handful of games they can sell. But they are bottom of the barrel games and would never be games against P5 schools.
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Tier 3 is a reference to conference media contracts, not school contracts. They are conference games whose rights the conference cedes back to the school. There are no Tier 3 out of conference games only because they are all already Tier 3 -- the school owns the games.
Now, maybe Alabama has pre-sold its out of conference games, even ones that haven't yet been scheduled. But you present no evidence for it. Instead you keep telling me about the SEC in-conference games that have been sold to ESPN and CBS. A UConn game would not be one of those games.
Now, maybe Alabama has pre-sold its out of conference games, even ones that haven't yet been scheduled. But you present no evidence for it. Instead you keep telling me about the SEC in-conference games that have been sold to ESPN and CBS. A UConn game would not be one of those games.
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whaler11
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The entire SEC has sold all their rights beyond the CBS contact to ESPN. This is why the SEC network exists. That you need more evidence than every single SEC game will be on CBS, the SEC net and ESPN except for the 8 games sublet to FSN from an old contact that expires this year seems impossible - but you can't accept reality.
It is all right here in black and white:
http://mattsarzsports.com/Contract/GameList?year=2014&conference=SEC#.U9F2Xym9LCQ
What don't you get?
whaler11
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Now read the Big 12 and follow closely. They get to keep one game each:
http://mattsarzsports.com/Contract/GameList?year=2014&conference=Big12#.U9F6Bim9LCQ
These super valuable assets end up places like:
WVU's game on Root Pittsburgh.
Iowa State and Kansas St have webcasts.
Oklahoma put their game on Fox PPV.
The Big 12 is the only P5 conference where the schools retain any rights. The AAC schools have none either.
http://mattsarzsports.com/Contract/GameList?year=2014&conference=Big12#.U9F6Bim9LCQ
These super valuable assets end up places like:
WVU's game on Root Pittsburgh.
Iowa State and Kansas St have webcasts.
Oklahoma put their game on Fox PPV.
The Big 12 is the only P5 conference where the schools retain any rights. The AAC schools have none either.
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Yes.
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