Top 5 coaches of all time. Calhoun in or out?

[uconnbill]

Coach Calhoun did more with less than any of those coaches. He has to be in. I would say third but I am bias and admit it

 

[David 76]

Coach Calhoun did more with less than any of those coaches. He has to be in. I would say third but I am bias and admit it

Bill,
Who would you put ahead of JC?
I would put Wooden and K there. I love Dean Smith the person, but his game day coaching doesn't inspire.

 

[the Q]

Please remember - Coach K built Duke also - I am far from a fan of K but you have to be fair
I place him and JC on the same level BUT put JC a step ahead because JC did it in a shorter time period and with less overall talent.
If K deserves to be in the top 5 then JC is there because he is a step ahead

Duke wasn’t close to this job though in terms of difficulty or pedigree.

K’s first year he has players on the roster who played in a final four and an elite 8.


What he did very well was leverage the power of duke’s academics in a way that Stanford and Vanderbilt have never been able to.

I don’t know if that’s on the other schools administrations or not, because considering the success of the baseball programs at those schools I’m thinking it’s less than clear.

 

[Umami Zen]

Serious question.. Not doubting anyone's answer.. What was it about Wooden's program that would suggest he was cheating or running a questionable program?? Leveraging boosters/alumni??

 

[Umami Zen]

Please remember - Coach K built Duke also - I am far from a fan of K but you have to be fair
I place him and JC on the same level BUT put JC a step ahead because JC did it in a shorter time period and with less overall talent.
If K deserves to be in the top 5 then JC is there because he is a step ahead

K did build Duke's program.. The "resources" he had available to him for that task were dramatically different than those available at UConn for JC... Nevertheless.. They were both excellent coaches and maximized the talent they had assembled on their rosters..

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I like Bob Knight with Xs and Os.

He is a terrific coach and won 2 titles. Knight also is one of the more influential coaches of all time. He was relentless teacher and camp guy.

Think about his impact from high school to college. Knight was a big camp teacher and so many coaches learned motion offense from him -- in lieu of post play -- and also the relentless need for perfect defense and no turnovers. Why do basketball coaches go nuts over a turnover? It's basketball, it happens.

Knight slowed down the game because he won with defense, execution and no turnovers. Wooden? He would play the game fast.

College basketball is still coming out of this slowdown, defense, no turnovers mindset.

Me? I am a fan of uptempo and getting more shots up. Turnovers are acceptable as a cost of increased pace. The more talented team should always increase the pace so it gets more shots to show it is better than the opponent. It's why, rarely, do big upsets happen in high scoring games.

There was an interview of Calhoun during the KEA era that always stuck with me. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that he could live with a turnover if it happened while trying to get a high percentage shot. He was talking about pushing the tempo to get dunks and layups, and I agree 100%, and adopted that approach when I coached AAU and youth. It is hard to score against a setup defense at any level, which is why transition baskets are so important.

Calhoun's press was as much about offense as it was about defense. Steals create easy baskets, so Calhoun wanted to create more steals, especially in the early days at UConn when the overall talent level wasn't great. Other coaches like Tom Davis had the same approach, which I agree with.

 

[superjohn]

I like Bob Knight with Xs and Os.

He is a terrific coach and won 2 titles. Knight also is one of the more influential coaches of all time. He was relentless teacher and camp guy.

Think about his impact from high school to college. Knight was a big camp teacher and so many coaches learned motion offense from him -- in lieu of post play -- and also the relentless need for perfect defense and no turnovers. Why do basketball coaches go nuts over a turnover? It's basketball, it happens.

Knight slowed down the game because he won with defense, execution and no turnovers. Wooden? He would play the game fast.

College basketball is still coming out of this slowdown, defense, no turnovers mindset.

Me? I am a fan of uptempo and getting more shots up. Turnovers are acceptable as a cost of increased pace. The more talented team should always increase the pace so it gets more shots to show it is better than the opponent. It's why, rarely, do big upsets happen in high scoring games.

Edit: There is a story about Knight's impact on a generation of coaches. I wish I could find it. good read where it went over a lot of the above.

Bobby Knight won 3 titles.

 

[Umami Zen]

There was an interview of Calhoun during the KEA era that always stuck with me. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that he could live with a turnover if it happened while trying to get a high percentage shot. He was talking about pushing the tempo to get dunks and layups, and I agree 100%, and adopted that approach when I coached AAU and youth. It is hard to score against a setup defense at any level, which is why transition baskets are so important.

Calhoun's press was as much about offense as it was about defense. Steals create easy baskets, so Calhoun wanted to create more steals, especially in the early days at UConn when the overall talent level wasn't great. Other coaches like Tom Davis had the same approach, which I agree with.

Agree with this coaching philosophy.. As talented as our PGs have been over the years.. Always enjoyed Nadav playing Point Forward ..Starting the break with his precise down court passing to teammates for the easy buckets.. BTW..Looks like Dan Hurley finally has a roster that could implement this strategy very effectively.. 2020 team has the athleticism to be an excellent pressing/fast break team..

 

[Ewekon]

With admitted bias, Who do I want coaching my team in the last 10 minutes of a see saw game that has such variables as foul management, possible fatigue issues, one on one matchups, pace of game/clock management?

I take JC. A number of CBB talking heads agree. And ask just K.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

With admitted bias, Who do I want coaching my team in the last 10 minutes of a see saw game that has such variables as foul management, possible fatigue issues, one on one matchups, pace of game/clock management?

I take JC. A number of CBB talking heads agree. And ask just K.

I wouldn't say Calhoun is the greatest game coach of all time. He is very good, but I think there are better coaches in a 2 point game with 10 minutes left.

If I had to pick any coach on that list in their mid 40's to build a program, Calhoun is the easy choice.

 

[businesslawyer]

Serious question.. Not doubting anyone's answer.. What was it about Wooden's program that would suggest he was cheating or running a questionable program?? Leveraging boosters/alumni??

UCLA's boosters provided all sorts of benefits to Wooden's recruits that were not within NCAA rules. That has been shown over time. Not clear how much Wooden participated in it, but he was playing with a stacked deck.

 

[borninansonia]

UCLA's boosters provided all sorts of benefits to Wooden's recruits that were not within NCAA rules. That has been shown over time. Not clear how much Wooden participated in it, but he was playing with a stacked deck.

Yes, but John Wooden produced great basketball players who were, for the most part, good, hard working people. Kareen is the perfect example. So is Bill Walton, even though many do not like him announcing games. The only exceptions I can think of were Sidney Rowe and one other player whose name I can't come up with, Wicks?, who were not well-behaved professional players.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Bobby Knight won 3 titles.

Forgot. Isaiah Thomas team, right?

 

[JohnFSilver]

There was an interview of Calhoun during the KEA era that always stuck with me. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that he could live with a turnover if it happened while trying to get a high percentage shot. He was talking about pushing the tempo to get dunks and layups, and I agree 100%, and adopted that approach when I coached AAU and youth. It is hard to score against a setup defense at any level, which is why transition baskets are so important.

Calhoun's press was as much about offense as it was about defense. Steals create easy baskets, so Calhoun wanted to create more steals, especially in the early days at UConn when the overall talent level wasn't great. Other coaches like Tom Davis had the same approach, which I agree with.

I think we are all disciples of Calhoun. I like players who run fast and get up and down. I also like tenacious individual defenders who are tough and have a high motor.

 

[JohnFSilver]

BTW, as an aside, Dan Hurley a really good in-game coach.

 

[SubbaBub]

Surprised some national media troll didn’t come on here and mention Izzo. They love Izzo, and he has 1 title and I just

Anyhow,

let’s do coaches and eliminate wooden and Rupp and James Naismith and Fogg. Different eras.

Let’s take the mid 1970s on. Starts with Bob Knight, dean smith, boeheim, Coach K, Calhoun...

I can make Calhoun a top 5 case. He is certainly had the most difficult job of all.

roy Williams majorly overrated for me .

Underrated?
Jay Wright
Billy Donovan

Feel better about Donovan if he had more longevity. Feel better about Wright if he did anything before the heavy hitters in the BE left town. Both are HoF college coaches, Top 5 might be a bit of a stretch.

 

[superjohn]

Surprised some national media troll didn’t come on here and mention Izzo. They love Izzo, and he has 1 title and I just

Anyhow,

let’s do coaches and eliminate wooden and Rupp and James Naismith and Fogg. Different eras.

Let’s take the mid 1970s on. Starts with Bob Knight, dean smith, boeheim, Coach K, Calhoun...

I can make Calhoun a top 5 case. He is certainly had the most difficult job of all.

roy Williams majorly overrated for me .

Underrated?
Jay Wright
Billy Donovan

Bulls signed Billy Donovan, love the hire.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Bulls signed Billy Donovan, love the hire.

Me too. Surprised he wasn't the Sixers' guy. Really good coach in the NBA and NCAA.

 

[the Q]

Bulls signed Billy Donovan, love the hire.

I’m kind of surprised he took that job.

He could easily have done the analyst job for a year and gotten any college gig He wanted.

Or waited out Philly.

 

[Umami Zen]

UCLA's boosters provided all sorts of benefits to Wooden's recruits that were not within NCAA rules. That has been shown over time. Not clear how much Wooden participated in it, but he was playing with a stacked deck.

Thanks for clarification.. Wanted to understand what the characterization was based on.. Seems like this describes many D1 FB/BB Programs of today.. Had heard that USC FB did similar things starting in the mid to late 60"s..Have a friend whose cousin(played FB at USC/future NFL Player) who benefitted from such arrangements.. Back to Top 5..

 

[husky429]

BTW, as an aside, Dan Hurley a really good in-game coach.

I actually have thought game day was his relative weakness (not that it is terrible or anything). I think partly because he wants to set a high standard early, he has been pretty rigid defensively... like forcing Carlton to double the perimeter. Obviously a stupid idea, but hes probably sticking with it just because it's better in the long term for Josh and the program.

Offensively, I like that he incorporates some principles from the NBA with handoffs and an emphasis on 3s. It is definitely a bland offense so far. But we've had a really young team or offensively one dimensional players... I expect this season we'll see some more unique play calls and an emphasis on ball screens

Personally, I've been impressed with his talent development, recruiting, and program management most. I especially like how he leans on assistants and let's them utilize their strengths.

 

[CL82]

Roy Williams is a very good coach. At some point, your resume speaks for itself. 9 Final Fours, 3 National Championships, and 900 wins is a legendary career.

Well it helps if your players aren't distracted by trivial things like actually going to classes...

 

[CL82]

BTW, as an aside, Dan Hurley a really good in-game coach.

We'll see this year. His first two years were hampered by bench depth.

 

[Brochacho]

Calhoun had the best program build of all time . Unsure if that puts him in the top 5 but definitely in the top 10.

 

[The Funster]

Wooden
K
Calhoun

What Wooden did was amazing. Yes, there was some shadiness but still it was an amazing dynasty

K just edges Calhoun, IMO

Calhoun built a program. Maybe only K could have done what JC did.

 

[Palatine]

K is a great recruiter. But is is a great coach or very good coach who was an unbelievable recruiter.

If you look at that list. Calhoun is probably the worst recruiter which probably makes him the best coach of the group.

With K's talent on the squad, JC probably wins ten NCs.

 

[Improviser]

Wooden
K
Calhoun

What Wooden did was amazing. Yes, there was some shadiness but still it was an amazing dynasty

K just edges Calhoun, IMO

Calhoun built a program. Maybe only K could have done what JC did.

Without giving a specific numerical rating for Calhoun, except that he should be in the top 5, another positive metric for him was his postseason record. As I recall, he had a high winning percentage once the team got to the NCAA.
However, and I have not researched this, I think I also once read that his record against top 50 teams for his coaching years, during the regular season was around 500.

Maybe the statisticians out there can verify and quantify my assumptions.

The fact is that he took over a mediocre team to great heights in a highly competitive league, the Big East , with 3 national championships to boot plus his post-season games were always competitive with the team never being blown out in a loss.

 

[Zissou]

1. K (5)
2. Wooden* (10)
3. Calhoon (3)
4. Knight (3)
5. Smith (2)
6. Williams* (3)
7. Pitino* (2)
8. Crum (2)
9. Wright (2)
10. Izzo (1)
11. Olson (1)

Rupp - too ancient

Give Wright another 10 years to move up the list

 

[dennismenace]

JC was the greatest overall due to the hand he was dealt and despite that never stopped believing that this team could win. Neither would he let others believe otherwise as well. Jim had character and the perserverance to accomplish all this. I think his early career relationship to Red Aurbach and studying under him gave him the belief that he could succeed no matter what. That and his younger days of rock fights.