To Those of You Who Think That Caitlin Clark Is a Selfish Shooter ...

[JoePgh]

... May I suggest that you review Paige's play at the Cayman Islands tournament?

It's instructive because for those two games, Paige was in the same situation that Caitlin is in every game -- having to assume the scoring load because of the limited offensive talents of her supporting cast. Without knowing Iowa's roster in detail, I would say that Paige was more fortunate than Caitlin because she did have one offensively talented teammate in these games -- Aubrey Griffin. I don't think Iowa has anyone like Aubrey, or for that matter anyone who can make a similar offensive contribution. For that matter, I doubt that Iowa has anyone comparable to Aaliyah Edwards, although Aaliyah was in a shooting funk during the UCLA game and was unavailable in the decisive minutes of the Kansas game because of her apparent injury.

For the two games, Paige shot 17-for-38 (9 of 23 against UCLA and 8 of 15 against Kansas). That is 44.7%. From 3-point range, she was 7-for-13 (53.8%) in the two games. That's a bit more efficient than Clark usually is, but Caitlin is just as clutch when the game is on the line as Paige. More significantly, Paige took 30.9% of UConn's shots during the two games, comparable to what Clark usually does. Never mind that one basketball-savvy Boneyarder said that he didn't think Paige "played that great" against UCLA because of her low shooting efficiency in that game.

If you think, as most of us do, that Paige did what she had to do in the Caymans tournament to put the team on her back, why won't you give credit to Caitlin Clark for doing the same thing every single time that Iowa takes the floor?

 

[uconnfan68]

... May I suggest that you review Paige's play at the Cayman Islands tournament?

It's instructive because for those two games, Paige was in the same situation that Caitlin is in every game -- having to assume the scoring load because of the limited offensive talents of her supporting cast. Without knowing Iowa's roster in detail, I would say that Paige was more fortunate than Caitlin because she did have one offensively talented teammate in these games -- Aubrey Griffin. I don't think Iowa has anyone like Aubrey, or for that matter anyone who can make a similar offensive contribution. For that matter, I doubt that Iowa has anyone comparable to Aaliyah Edwards, although Aaliyah was in a shooting funk during the UCLA game and was unavailable in the decisive minutes of the Kansas game because of her apparent injury.

For the two games, Paige shot 17-for-38 (9 of 23 against UCLA and 8 of 15 against Kansas). That is 44.7%. From 3-point range, she was 7-for-13 (53.8%) in the two games. That's a bit more efficient than Clark usually is, but Caitlin is just as clutch when the game is on the line as Paige. More significantly, Paige took 30.9% of UConn's shots during the two games, comparable to what Clark usually does. Never mind that one basketball-savvy Boneyarder said that he didn't think Paige "played that great" against UCLA because of her low shooting efficiency in that game.

If you think, as most of us do, that Paige did what she had to do in the Caymans tournament to put the team on her back, why won't you give credit to Caitlin Clark for doing the same thing every single time that Iowa takes the floor?

Both are great players, but only Caitlin launches logo 3s.

 

[topogigio]

Paige may have to be "more like Cate" if UConn's shooting woes continue!

 

[Postie]

I totally agree. Someone once said on the board that Caitlin is a volume shooter.Well for UCONN to win Paige has to do the same thing.

 

[EricSD]

Nice post Joe. It's fine if people want to compare Paige to Caitlin, but I don't get the tendency to pump one player by putting down the other. Both are great. On a team with more firepower, Paige's role may be different, but this team is now pretty much down 4 players (Jana, Yanna, Azzi, Caroline), and reliant on 4 untested freshmen.

Gonna be a long season.

 

[Gordo]

Gonna be a long season.

That's for sure.

... May I suggest that you review Paige's play at the Cayman Islands tournament?

It's instructive because for those two games, Paige was in the same situation that Caitlin is in every game -- having to assume the scoring load because of the limited offensive talents of her supporting cast. Without knowing Iowa's roster in detail, I would say that Paige was more fortunate than Caitlin because she did have one offensively talented teammate in these games -- Aubrey Griffin. I don't think Iowa has anyone like Aubrey, or for that matter anyone who can make a similar offensive contribution. For that matter, I doubt that Iowa has anyone comparable to Aaliyah Edwards, although Aaliyah was in a shooting funk during the UCLA game and was unavailable in the decisive minutes of the Kansas game because of her apparent injury.

For the two games, Paige shot 17-for-38 (9 of 23 against UCLA and 8 of 15 against Kansas). That is 44.7%. From 3-point range, she was 7-for-13 (53.8%) in the two games. That's a bit more efficient than Clark usually is, but Caitlin is just as clutch when the game is on the line as Paige. More significantly, Paige took 30.9% of UConn's shots during the two games, comparable to what Clark usually does. Never mind that one basketball-savvy Boneyarder said that he didn't think Paige "played that great" against UCLA because of her low shooting efficiency in that game.

If you think, as most of us do, that Paige did what she had to do in the Caymans tournament to put the team on her back, why won't you give credit to Caitlin Clark for doing the same thing every single time that Iowa takes the floor?

Why do we really need to care what Caitlin Clark does? She's a great player, that's a given. But, she doesn't play for UConn.

 

[CajunHusky]

... May I suggest that you review Paige's play at the Cayman Islands tournament?

If you think, as most of us do, that Paige did what she had to do in the Caymans tournament to put the team on her back, why won't you give credit to Caitlin Clark for doing the same thing every single time that Iowa takes the floor?

I have sung Clark's praises for three years. I know CC is a great player. And your numbers work to make your point yet its not the same thing ....

Paige ain't putting up logo 3 pointers for the hell of it and Paige ain't pushing players to the floor.

I suggest people WATCH Clark play and not just make observations based on statistics then make up your own mind.

 

[Charliebball]

... May I suggest that you review Paige's play at the Cayman Islands tournament?

It's instructive because for those two games, Paige was in the same situation that Caitlin is in every game -- having to assume the scoring load because of the limited offensive talents of her supporting cast. Without knowing Iowa's roster in detail, I would say that Paige was more fortunate than Caitlin because she did have one offensively talented teammate in these games -- Aubrey Griffin. I don't think Iowa has anyone like Aubrey, or for that matter anyone who can make a similar offensive contribution. For that matter, I doubt that Iowa has anyone comparable to Aaliyah Edwards, although Aaliyah was in a shooting funk during the UCLA game and was unavailable in the decisive minutes of the Kansas game because of her apparent injury.

For the two games, Paige shot 17-for-38 (9 of 23 against UCLA and 8 of 15 against Kansas). That is 44.7%. From 3-point range, she was 7-for-13 (53.8%) in the two games. That's a bit more efficient than Clark usually is, but Caitlin is just as clutch when the game is on the line as Paige. More significantly, Paige took 30.9% of UConn's shots during the two games, comparable to what Clark usually does. Never mind that one basketball-savvy Boneyarder said that he didn't think Paige "played that great" against UCLA because of her low shooting efficiency in that game.

If you think, as most of us do, that Paige did what she had to do in the Caymans tournament to put the team on her back, why won't you give credit to Caitlin Clark for doing the same thing every single time that Iowa takes the floor?

I appreciate your point but Clark is simply a great shooter who often thinks shot before she thinks pass while Paige has historically been a pass-first kind of player who's still working on becoming more of a me-first shooter............despite what Geno has said, I don't think Paige is 100% back yet so I'm not ready to compare any stats with Clark.........Paige is also feeling her way back into playing with four other starters after a season off while Clark has had the opportunity to play with the majority of her teammates for multiple seasons.........Marshall and Martin have been pretty good three points shooters over the past few years so it's not like Clark is being forced to take every outside shot.......

 

[The deacon]

I have sung Clark's praises for three years. I know CC is a great player. And your numbers work to make your point yet its not the same thing ....

Paige ain't putting up logo 3 pointers for the hell of it and Paige ain't pushing players to the floor.

I suggest people WATCH Clark play and not just make observations based on statistics then make up your own mind.

Paige might not be pushing players to the floor but she did score a pretty impressive takedown of Maryland's Sellers just recently...

Players such as Paige and Caitlin occasionally need to show they can defend themselves in one way or another.

 

[Bigboote]

Two things to note: In the two games thus far this weekend, Iowa has had six players besides Clark score in double figures, so it's hardly like she had no help offensively. Also Iowa won one game by 39 and the other by 38, and scored 100 points in one game and 98 in the other. So saying Paige had a teammate helping carry the scoring load and Caitlin didn't seems baffling to me.

I'm with the others, I think Caitlin is a wonderful player who's bringing in fans. I hope she and Paige have a healthy rivalry for years to come in the WNBA.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I know, teams play at different tempos, and with different systems, etc. But I keep wondering how Clark has averaged nearly 8 assists/game for her career and should easily end up well over 1000 if she's such a selfish, shoot first player. It makes ZERO sense.

 

[The deacon]

Two things to note: In the two games thus far this weekend, Iowa has had six players besides Clark score in double figures, so it's hardly like she had no help offensively. Also Iowa won one game by 39 and the other by 38, and scored 100 points in one game and 98 in the other. So saying Paige had a teammate helping carry the scoring load and Caitlin didn't seems baffling to me.

I'm with the others, I think Caitlin is a wonderful player who's bringing in fans. I hope she and Paige have a healthy rivalry for years to come in the WNBA.

Well said, Bigboote. During those two games against overmatched opponents, Caitlin apparently didn't give in to the temptation to pad her stats: she made a cumulative 15 of 27 field goal attempts for the two games, including 10 of 17 from beyond the arc... I don't know how many were logo attempts. She scored just 29 and 21, respectively, while playing just over half of each game.

Iowa will face a much more challenging game this evening. It again plays unbeaten and defensive-minded Kansas State, which beat the Hawkeyes just 10 days ago when Caitlin experienced a dreadful shooting performance.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Two games doesn't exactly make a pattern but.....

I posted a few months ago some fans on this board are, in my opinion, overly critical of volume shooters. Yes there are plenty who take far more shots than are needed but I suspect that in most cases, these players were given the green light in order for their teams to be competitive. I say that Kelsey Mitchel, Plum, and Arike were all told they had permission to fire away to give their teams a chance to win. Clark is more well rounded than the 3 I mentioned but still has drawn criticism.

To be fair I've never seen PB take a wreckless shot while the others have been guilty for sure but she may be called on to shoot more this year without Fudd and potentially CD.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Clark is a volume shooter, she also takes some awful shots. With that being said, I doubt Paige could handle Clark’s workload without sustaining further injuries.

 

[Aluminny69]

I rarely make predictions, but, barring injuries, Clark will be NPOY at the end of the season.

 

[Bone Dog]

Ok, before we rush to canonize Caitlin and Iowa, they’ve had one impressive win over VT, an embarrassing loss to K-St, and an unimpressive win over Drake. I’ll admit they’re better than I expected after losing Czinano and Warnock. But I don’t think they’ve proven their ranking by any means, and Caitlin’s heroics are also questionable… so far. I imagine she’ll prove herself as the season goes on. Maybe the rematch against K-St this evening will give her that chance.

As for the rest, in my view Caitlin has had a cakewalk for three years, while Paige has had to hold up the sky for UConn. Caitlin scores a lot. I wouldn’t want her on my team before Paige.

 

[IArick]

I appreciate your point but Clark is simply a great shooter who often thinks shot before she thinks pass while Paige has historically been a pass-first kind of player who's still working on becoming more of a me-first shooter............despite what Geno has said, I don't think Paige is 100% back yet so I'm not ready to compare any stats with Clark.........Paige is also feeling her way back into playing with four other starters after a season off while Clark has had the opportunity to play with the majority of her teammates for multiple seasons.........Marshall and Martin have been pretty good three points shooters over the past few years so it's not like Clark is being forced to take every outside shot.......

Clark has a higher assist ratings than Paige as well as rebounding. Not sure, someone (Clark) who has been at or near the top in assists throughout her career should just be considered a me first shooter.

 

[AgStatesman]

Clark has 2 offensive rebounds the entire year and averages 0.1 block per game. Doesn't that really tell us all we need to know?

 

[ctkaiser]

I have sung Clark's praises for three years. I know CC is a great player. And your numbers work to make your point yet its not the same thing ....

Paige ain't putting up logo 3 pointers for the hell of it and Paige ain't pushing players to the floor.

I suggest people WATCH Clark play and not just make observations based on statistics then make up your own mind.

I've watched Clark play often. Great player. Had an off game vs Kansas St a couple of weeks ago. They play again tonight in a tournament. Be interested to see how she does. K St has a great player in Lee. They need to make a better effort to get her the ball more often. They went about 9 mins without scoring vs Iowa and managed to win.

 

[diggerfoot]

... May I suggest that you review Paige's play at the Cayman Islands tournament?

It's instructive because for those two games, Paige was in the same situation that Caitlin is in every game -- having to assume the scoring load because of the limited offensive talents of her supporting cast. Without knowing Iowa's roster in detail, I would say that Paige was more fortunate than Caitlin because she did have one offensively talented teammate in these games -- Aubrey Griffin. I don't think Iowa has anyone like Aubrey, or for that matter anyone who can make a similar offensive contribution. For that matter, I doubt that Iowa has anyone comparable to Aaliyah Edwards, although Aaliyah was in a shooting funk during the UCLA game and was unavailable in the decisive minutes of the Kansas game because of her apparent injury.

For the two games, Paige shot 17-for-38 (9 of 23 against UCLA and 8 of 15 against Kansas). That is 44.7%. From 3-point range, she was 7-for-13 (53.8%) in the two games. That's a bit more efficient than Clark usually is, but Caitlin is just as clutch when the game is on the line as Paige. More significantly, Paige took 30.9% of UConn's shots during the two games, comparable to what Clark usually does. Never mind that one basketball-savvy Boneyarder said that he didn't think Paige "played that great" against UCLA because of her low shooting efficiency in that game.

If you think, as most of us do, that Paige did what she had to do in the Caymans tournament to put the team on her back, why won't you give credit to Caitlin Clark for doing the same thing every single time that Iowa takes the floor?

Actually, I think it’s worse for UConn that Bueckers shoots as much as she did against UCLA, and the results support that. UConn does not recruit for that to happen with their offense. If her teammates are not getting more shots there is something wrong with how the offense as intended is running.

I assume Clark is shooting as much as is expected of her in the design of the Iowa offense, so I have no complaint about that. My complaint is how we denigrate the rest of the Iowa offense by saying Clark is putting them on her back, over and over again. Good Lord, last year her teammates collectively shot better than Clark in the majority of their games, including the win against USC.

They are able to do that because Clark takes a lot of pressure off them, but also because they were good shooters that played together for three years, a luxury far beyond what UConn has experienced lately. A mutual benefit happened in the Iowa offense last year, with Clark’s volume balanced by her teammates’ efficiency. That does not happen when Bueckers has to take over games. Making it sound like Clark’s teammates are a greater handicap because they were not as highly rated as UConn players is the opposite of the truth.

 

[Charliebball]

Clark has a higher assist ratings than Paige as well as rebounding. Not sure, someone (Clark) who has been at or near the top in assists throughout her career should just be considered a me first shooter.

I'm not sure that it's fair to compare the two of them statistically at this point based on Paige's injuries/missed time............let's look at her numbers at the end of this season to get a better sense of their play in comparison.......I wonder if anybody has ever clocked how many minutes a game Clark actually has the ball in her hands...........it's a lot.........you know that's not how UConn's offense works.........if you remember her freshman season, Paige's ability to score, pass the ball, defend, rebound and simply make everyone on her team better was what gained her so many accolades..........I haven't seen that very same Paige yet but I'm sure she'll get back to that level if she stays injury-free..........I think that Clark has certainly proved to be the far more durable player and that's an important part of the game...

 

[Plebe]

As for the rest, in my view Caitlin has had a cakewalk for three years, while Paige has had to hold up the sky for UConn.

Please explain to me the cakewalk comment. How exactly has Caitlin had a "cakewalk" for three years?

 

[The deacon]

Ok, before we rush to canonize Caitlin and Iowa, they’ve had one impressive win over VT, an embarrassing loss to K-St, and an unimpressive win over Drake. I’ll admit they’re better than I expected after losing Czinano and Warnock. But I don’t think they’ve proven their ranking by any means, and Caitlin’s heroics are also questionable… so far. I imagine she’ll prove herself as the season goes on. Maybe the rematch against K-St this evening will give her that chance.

As for the rest, in my view Caitlin has had a cakewalk for three years, while Paige has had to hold up the sky for UConn. Caitlin scores a lot. I wouldn’t want her on my team before Paige.

Please explain to me the cakewalk comment. How exactly has Caitlin had a "cakewalk" for three years?

Plebe, Bone Dog is simply unrelenting, criticizing Clark every chance available, and then even when it's not available... it's perplexing given Bone Dog's otherwise balanced and wise posts.

 

[Bone Dog]

Please explain to me the cakewalk comment. How exactly has Caitlin had a "cakewalk" for three years?

As @diggerfoot pointed out above, Iowa has not been plagued by injury. For Caitlin’s first three years she played with the same starting five every game. Also, the offense at Iowa is designed around her getting lots of shots. This means her stats will always be skewed upwards. Lisa Bluder probably hopes she’ll take the pressure off her teammates this way, and she has largely been proven right. But this doesn’t mean Caitlin doesn’t overdo the shot-hogging from time to time. Nor does it mean they couldn’t have become an even better team if Caitlin had played a little more off the ball.

I think we’ve seen intimations of this better team on defense when her teammates carry the load with really high energy play and challenging every 50-50 ball. Use that same energy on offense and Caitlin’s numbers might shrink, but the others would step it up.

Finally, just to return the favor, @The deacon regularly abandons his sober intelligence whenever he sees a chance to accuse others of unfairly critiquing Caitlin. The only player who merits that sort of defender on a UConn board is Paige. ‘Nuff said.

 

[The deacon]

As @diggerfoot pointed out above, Iowa has not been plagued by injury. For Caitlin’s first three years she played with the same starting five every game. Also, the offense at Iowa is designed around her getting lots of shots. This means her stats will always be skewed upwards. Lisa Bluder probably hopes she’ll take the pressure off her teammates this way, and she has largely been proven right. But this doesn’t mean Caitlin doesn’t overdo the shot-hogging from time to time. Nor does it mean they couldn’t have become an even better team if Caitlin had played a little more off the ball.

I think we’ve seen intimations of this better team on defense when her teammates carry the load with really high energy play and challenging every 50-50 ball. Use that same energy on offense and Caitlin’s numbers might shrink, but the others would step it up.

Finally, just to return the favor, @The deacon regularly abandons his sober intelligence whenever he sees a chance to accuse others of unfairly critiquing Caitlin. The only player who merits that sort of defender on a UConn board is Paige. ‘Nuff said.

Until the next time, my friend...

 

[Bone Dog]

I’ll add one last thing about Iowa. They avenged the loss to K-St this evening and Caitlin played okay, though she went 10-25. Fortunately she shot better from 3. But the players who’ve really impressed me this season have been Molly Davis and Sharon Goodman. They are good solid players who now regularly start. And, of course, I always have a warm spot in my heart for Gabby Marshall, even though she shot poorly tonight. But she does all the little things, the mischievous things that keep an opponent off balance. You gotta love kids like that.

 

[Majic Hands]

Why a thread about Iowa?

The season has started.

I believe there is a general basketball thread for Iowa.

I'll now put this thread on Ignore since there any useful UConn information.

Have a nice day.

 

[Plebe]

As @diggerfoot pointed out above, Iowa has not been plagued by injury. For Caitlin’s first three years she played with the same starting five every game. Also, the offense at Iowa is designed around her getting lots of shots. This means her stats will always be skewed upwards. Lisa Bluder probably hopes she’ll take the pressure off her teammates this way, and she has largely been proven right. But this doesn’t mean Caitlin doesn’t overdo the shot-hogging from time to time. Nor does it mean they couldn’t have become an even better team if Caitlin had played a little more off the ball.

Then you and I have very different understandings of the word "cakewalk." If anything, by your own description, it's Caitlin who has "held up the sky" for Iowa for three seasons and counting.

If we entertain your thesis that coach Bluder has executed a devious coaching conspiracy to "skew" Clark's scoring stats upward, she must also be commended for doing similarly with her assists — since Clark led the country in assists per game in each of the past two years (and was 3rd in her freshman year).

What a cakewalk! Why, with such deceitful coaching as that, any ol' player could just waltz out there and lead the country in points and assists while surrounded by much lesser talent.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Please explain to me the cakewalk comment. How exactly has Caitlin had a "cakewalk" for three years?

The Big Ten is hardly a top WBB conference.

 

[Plebe]

The Big Ten is hardly a top WBB conference.

Good point. I guess that's why Caitlin played so poorly against the SEC champions in the national semifinal.