Time to force feed Jana

[hoophuskee]

I think the sky is the limit for Jana. But fouls and free throws are very important. If she can't hit free throws then she can't play very much in tight big games. i expect the fouls issue to be up-and-down this year. Low Posts that are freshmen in which they are relied on a lot, I tend to think just when you believe the issue has been resolved, then expect the next game the issue to pop back up. That tends to happen with 19 yo's.

But another key factor is her f/t shooting. If she is going to shoot poorly at the free/t line, then it means she can't be relied on too much in big tight games late. We know UCONN doesn't get to the free/t line much which means the opposing Bigs can be even be more aggressive/physical late which also means they can be even more physical defending and going after rebounds etc. Until Jana shows she is a decent enough f/t shooter, then there is no reason to not give the extra minutes to Ice for example because you are still trying to win the game with players you can rely on. You can't rely on a player very often late in tight games if they can't hit their f/t's. And at least with Ice getting these extra minutes, she is getting better too, so it's not exactly a negative playing Ice. Not negative at all.

Note: I am not saying dont play her. Not one bit. They need her.

 

[BigKahuna]

Jana is an emerging star with a slightly flawed shooting stroke. She should spend 15 minutes a day alone with Azzi teaching her proper technique. Azzi’s foul shooting release is pristine. An ideal instructor for Jana.

 

[BBallF]

I think the sky is the limit for Jana. But fouls and free throws are very important. If she can't hit free throws then she can't play very much in tight big games. i expect the fouls issue to be up-and-down this year. Low Posts that are freshmen in which they are relied on a lot, I tend to think just when you believe the issue has been resolved, then expect the next game the issue to pop back up. That tends to happen with 19 yo's.

But another key factor is her f/t shooting. If she is going to shoot poorly at the free/t line, then it means she can't be relied on too much in big tight games late. We know UCONN doesn't get to the free/t line much which means the opposing Bigs can be even be more aggressive/physical late which also means they can be even more physical defending and going after rebounds etc. Until Jana shows she is a decent enough f/t shooter, then there is no reason to not give the extra minutes to Ice for example because you are still trying to win the game with players you can rely on. You can't rely on a player very often late in tight games if they can't hit their f/t's. And at least with Ice getting these extra minutes, she is getting better too, so it's not exactly a negative playing Ice. Not negative at all.

Note: I am not saying dont play her. Not one bit. They need her.

The interesting thing is that she always seems to miss her first free throw by being too long. The second is a more feathery touch and she usually makes it. She is a work in progress to be sure but she had a solid game last night against a lot older, more experienced players. She wants to be dominating and great, you can just see that in her body language. For only 6 games in, I am thrilled with her potential and I think she will develop at a double time rate because of who she will be playing against.

 

[PvP]

While I agree with you that Strong is a fantastic rebounder (and overall player), and Brady has more experience, however I am more bully on Jana than this post suggests.

There is a poster who calculates statistics for the game(s) and projects them to 40-mins, such that they are apples to apples comparable based upon minutes played. When this is completed for the season, at least so far, I believe we will see that Jana is statistically a better rebounder than Ice. I think it will prove out that she also commits fewer fouls and scores more points than Ice, “per 40-min game”. Maybe I am wrong about this, but I think it will bear that out.

There are a lot of things that are not necessarily reflective on the stats sheet. Frankly, Brady may be better in all of those, but Jana is getting to the point where she is equivalent to, or surpassing Ice in many ways, and perhaps overall.

I completely agree. Jana already, based on "40 minute" comparisons, is ahead of Ice in rebounding and scoring. Jana, like Strong, stuffs the stat sheet, while Ice, not so much.

I think it was telling that at the end of the game yesterday, it was Jana and Sarah on the floor and Ice on the bench (with 4 fouls). Jana also had more minutes than Ice which I foresee as becoming the norm, which was my point in starting this thread in the first place.

 

[Dugway]

As I had guessed in Post #57, statistically Jana is very good in several areas. @JRRRJ has completed a statistical analysis and is available in a separate thread.

Averages “per 40-min”:

Scoring: Jana is second highest on the team, actually ahead of Sarah Strong.​

​

Rebounding: Jana leads the team by a huge margin! She grabbed a bunch of her own misses at point blank range, so discount that and look at Defense Rebounds only, and she still is our best, Ahead of Sarah Strong and about double the number that Ice pulls down.​

​

Free Throws: at 5 for 14, Jana is the lowest on the team! As others have pointed out, in a close game, particularly as time is running out, opponents may begin to play “Hack the Shaq”!​

​

Fouls: 3.79 per a 40-min game; not great but certainly not fouling out! For a freshman of her size, she is not a huge liability here.​

​

Turn Overs; 3.37 per a 40-min game; not great but she is not a huge liability there either.​

​

There is a lot to like about the way she is handling herself so far. I am not opposed to starting Brady over El Alfy. I believe she has earned it, but statistically Jana is right there and frankly better (on paper).

 

[Conndog]

The interesting thing is that she always seems to miss her first free throw by being too long. The second is a more feathery touch and she usually makes it. She is a work in progress to be sure but she had a solid game last night against a lot older, more experienced players. She wants to be dominating and great, you can just see that in her body language. For only 6 games in, I am thrilled with her potential and I think she will develop at a double time rate because of who she will be playing against.

Donovan Clingan was the same with 1st free throw being too strong but then making the 2nd. He improved and so will she.

 

[BBallF]

Donovan Clingan was the same with 1st free throw being too strong but then making the 2nd. He improved and so will she.

Absolutely. She will also improve on her footwork which will improve her fouling. When she is called for a foul lately it's because her footwork is either too slow or she doesn't move them and even though her arms are raised vertically, her body is hitting the shooter.

 

[oldhusky]

As I had guessed in Post #57, statistically Jana is very good in several areas. @JRRRJ has completed a statistical analysis and is available in a separate thread.

Averages “per 40-min”:

Scoring: Jana is second highest on the team, actually ahead of Sarah Strong.​

​

Rebounding: Jana leads the team by a huge margin! She grabbed a bunch of her own misses at point blank range, so discount that and look at Defense Rebounds only, and she still is our best, Ahead of Sarah Strong and about double the number that Ice pulls down.​

​

Free Throws: at 5 for 14, Jana is the lowest on the team! As others have pointed out, in a close game, particularly as time is running out, opponents may begin to play “Hack the Shaq”!​

​

Fouls: 3.79 per a 40-min game; not great but certainly not fouling out! For a freshman of her size, she is not a huge liability here.​

​

Turn Overs; 3.37 per a 40-min game; not great but she is not a huge liability there either.​

​

There is a lot to like about the way she is handling herself so far. I am not opposed to starting Brady over El Alfy. I believe she has earned it, but statistically Jana is right there and frankly better (on paper).

I appreciate the statistical comparisons. From almost any analysis of overall statistics, Jana has been clearly superior to Ice. Does she make more mistakes and sometimes force things or try to do too much? Absolutely, and that is mainly what keeps her behind Ice thus far.

Geno uses playing time to teach and weed out bad habits, but it is noteworthy in the last game against a very good opponent Jana played two more minutes than Ice. Of course Ole Miss was killing us on offensive boards, so Jana was the obvious solution. There are two areas where I think Jana has a big edge over Ice and it shows in the stats. The most obvious is rebounding, where the difference is huge. The other is volume scoring. Ice can be a pretty efficient scorer but doesn't seek out the ball in the post much. Jana wants the ball down low and has a much higher usage rate.

If Jana reduces the mistakes even just a little, she will be the obvious choice to start because she has so much more upside. The same is true for Azzi as she seems ready to join the starting lineup soon as well. In time I think the main question will be who the 5th starter will be between Kaitlin, Ashlynn, KK and Ice, with Aubrey being a possibility too when she returns.

 

[Lambeau]

Put simply, Jana has twice the scoring and twice the rebounds over Ice on a per 40 min basis.

 

[donalddoowop]

Put simply, Jana has twice the scoring and twice the rebounds over Ice on a per 40 min basis.

And twice the height.

 

[PJCLaw]

Ice and particularly Strong, are the two best rebounders on the team. While Jana takes up space, both Ice and Strong are always moving to the ball and both, Strong in particular, have great hands. If they touch it, its theirs. As we saw with G. Williams (listed at 5'11") and Collier (listed at 6'1"), height doesn't always equal strong rebounding.

Statistics disagree with your assessment that Ice and Strong are the two best rebounders on the team. In fact, while Sarah leads the team in rebounding (7.7 per game), Jana averages two more rebounds per game than Ice (6.3 to 4.3) in 7 less minutes played per game (22 to 15 mins). Jana doesn't just take up space she actively goes after the ball, like taping it to herself or aggressively taking ahold of the ball. The three of them average over 18 boards a game, which is a good number at this point in the season, but I think in the long run, Jana will average close to 10 rebounds a game.

 

[Jonathan14]

I think the sky is the limit for Jana. But fouls and free throws are very important. If she can't hit free throws then she can't play very much in tight big games. i expect the fouls issue to be up-and-down this year. Low Posts that are freshmen in which they are relied on a lot, I tend to think just when you believe the issue has been resolved, then expect the next game the issue to pop back up. That tends to happen with 19 yo's.

But another key factor is her f/t shooting. If she is going to shoot poorly at the free/t line, then it means she can't be relied on too much in big tight games late. We know UCONN doesn't get to the free/t line much which means the opposing Bigs can be even be more aggressive/physical late which also means they can be even more physical defending and going after rebounds etc. Until Jana shows she is a decent enough f/t shooter, then there is no reason to not give the extra minutes to Ice for example because you are still trying to win the game with players you can rely on. You can't rely on a player very often late in tight games if they can't hit their f/t's. And at least with Ice getting these extra minutes, she is getting better too, so it's not exactly a negative playing Ice. Not negative at all.

Note: I am not saying dont play her. Not one bit. They need her.

What’s especially frustrating to me about the fouls situation is that it’s so dependent on the team of referees calling the game or even from one play to the next. The team in the Ole Miss game was especially poor in calling fouls consistently.

 

[Jonathan14]

I agree that Jana has tremendous upside and a high ceiling. She was a game-changer for us on Wednesday night. She’s also a stat sheet stuffer, as we can see in @JRRRJ ’s analysis.

To me, there are two areas where I think Geno might see Ice with an advantage and they don’t show up in the box score. Even though she’s only a sophomore, that year of experience—especially playing in the Big East Tournament when Aaliyah was out—gave her reps with Paige and time under the lights, in front of the crowds, etc. She’s also a very good passer for a big and Geno loves a post who can feed into and out of the low post. (That’s not to say Jana can’t pass well; I just haven’t noticed it as much yet!)

I say: we’re very fortunate to have them both!

 

[my2cents]

When these posts discuss individual players they always go off the rails.
Geno will always assign more or less playing time based on one thing;
Who is making plays, baskets and defense. Do those things, you get minutes.
You don't , you sit. Simple.

 

[HopJim]

As I had guessed in Post #57, statistically Jana is very good in several areas. @JRRRJ has completed a statistical analysis and is available in a separate thread.

Averages “per 40-min”:

Scoring: Jana is second highest on the team, actually ahead of Sarah Strong.​

​

Rebounding: Jana leads the team by a huge margin! She grabbed a bunch of her own misses at point blank range, so discount that and look at Defense Rebounds only, and she still is our best, Ahead of Sarah Strong and about double the number that Ice pulls down.​

​

Free Throws: at 5 for 14, Jana is the lowest on the team! As others have pointed out, in a close game, particularly as time is running out, opponents may begin to play “Hack the Shaq”!​

​

Fouls: 3.79 per a 40-min game; not great but certainly not fouling out! For a freshman of her size, she is not a huge liability here.​

​

Turn Overs; 3.37 per a 40-min game; not great but she is not a huge liability there either.​

​

There is a lot to like about the way she is handling herself so far. I am not opposed to starting Brady over El Alfy. I believe she has earned it, but statistically Jana is right there and frankly better (on paper).

 

[HopJim]

Particularly in close games, teams need strong foul shooters and defenders that won't foul. While not surprising that a 6'5" frosh coming off an injury has issues with both, suspect Geno will want to see improvement before he trusts Jana in all game situations.

 

[CL82]

If Jana would slam dunk a few, that would take the pressure off her, and solve the frustration of missing the point blank shots...

I blame the point guards. Not one of them have ever thrown an ally-oop to her.

 

[boontonbomber]

When these posts discuss individual players they always go off the rails.
Geno will always assign more or less playing time based on one thing;
Who is making plays, baskets and defense. Do those things, you get minutes.
You don't , you sit. Simple.

Off what rails? I think the discussion has been very illuminating, especially re the comparative stats of Ice and Jana.

 

[my2cents]

Off what rails? I think the discussion has been very illuminating, especially re the comparative stats of Ice and Jana.

Ok, I will try again.
Geno is making decisions in the present. In the game he is in. Who is playing and contributing in that game. He doesn't give a rat's ass of who may have better stats before that game.

 

[boontonbomber]

Ok, I will try again.
Geno is making decisions in the present. In the game he is in. Who is playing and contributing in that game. He doesn't give a rat's ass of who may have better stats before that game.

Now who's off the rails?

 

[Alydar]

On the other hand, you know what they say… You can't teach height!

I think a lot of the preference for Jana is due to how good she looked before she got injured last summer and the tendency to assume that untried players will be able to play flawlessly. That happens pretty frequently on this board, and pretty much every other board. I think it's a human nature thing.

I feel like the lightbulb has gone on a little bit for Ice. She seems like she's playing more confidently, aggressive and physical, this year. Some of that no doubt is due to maturity and experience, but, I'm inclined to believe that some of it is also due to banging against Jana in practice.

Regardless "steel sharpens steel." I expect both of them to look pretty good by the end of the year.

Brady struggled last season coming off injury. El Alfy is coming off injury this season and some are just as impatiently unhappy with her play as they were with Brady last year.
It's more than 2 or 3 inches difference. ElAlfy isn't just tall like ONO, she's wide and strong. A mountain. She has soft hands and runs the floor better than what I saw from Betts. She is also adapting to US officiating.
Right now, if Geno started El Alfy, we'd see a repeat of Dolson's freshman (and sophomore) seasons where it seemed she picked up 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes game after game and sat a great deal. But Geno didn't want to mess with her aggressive attitude. She would miss a shot and then foul the player who got the rebound with a stupid reach-around foul. I think El Alfy is much better than Dolson was as a freshman. And having El Alfy in the 4th period against Miss was huge. The Miss. inside players couldn't move her. UConn hasn't had one of that type in a long time. She, Brady and Strong along with Malou-Mamel will dominate the paint for UConn for at least another 2 years.

Instead of listing her flaws I want to kiss the ground that she is at UConn.

 

[Alydar]

I disagree with the obsession being a guy thg bcus women obsess abt being a 6 or 12 In a pants suit or dress size. no offense....but I digress...I totally agree height doesn't really make you a great rebounder it's abt position and desire, a great example is Aneesah Morrow, who as a listed 6'1-6'2 player has never averaged less thn 10 rebounds per game with her highest average being 14 rbs per game and Dennis Rodman who at 6'7 led the NBA 7 straight years with desire and positioning.

True. Rebounding and height are only vaguely related. But when you are defending a top level player who is 6'6 your size (height/weight) becomes very related to your chances of success defending them. If UConn had a 6'3 post in 2000 against Tenn those 10* blocks would not have happened.

* my count

 

[Cuango]

Jana and Sarah have already changed this team’s former weakness in rebounding to, perhaps not a strength yet, but certainly much less of a weakness! Even Ice is rebounding better! When Yanna and Aubrey return to full strength we may actually become a good rebounding team! I believe Jana especially, has the potential of becoming a top tier rebounder. I do hope she can become a better free throw shooter as I see a lot of fouls in her future!

 

[CL82]

Ok, I will try again.
Geno is making decisions in the present. In the game he is in. Who is playing and contributing in that game. He doesn't give a rat's ass of who may have better stats before that game.

So the starting lineup is entirely random?

 

[Dogstar]

True. Rebounding and height are only vaguely related. But when you are defending a top level player who is 6'6 your size (height/weight) becomes very related to your chances of success defending them. If UConn had a 6'3 post in 2000 against Tenn those 10* blocks would not have happened.

* my count

Ahhhh...Kelly and Big Rig !!!

 

[my2cents]

So the starting lineup is entirely random?

The amount of time in the game is based on contributions during that game. A concept that is not hard to understand.

 

[Crossover]

Ok, I will try again.
Geno is making decisions in the present. In the game he is in. Who is playing and contributing in that game. He doesn't give a rat's ass of who may have better stats before that game.

Or who has a higher ceiling.

 

[CL82]

The amount of time in the game is based on contributions during that game. A concept that is not hard to understand.

But you said Geno didn't pay any attention to stats before the game and now you're saying, he assigns times solely based upon the performance in the game, so my question remains, under your theory how does he choose the starters?

 

[ConnecticutBB]

Having watched UCLA dominate SC, without having to rely very heavily on Betts, I believe Geno needs to force feed minutes for Jana as it doesn't seem, to me, that Ice can't be expected to give up 4 inches to a player like Betts as skilled as she is on both ends of the court.

Jana not only has more height. It seems to me, that with enough game action, the rust of 18 months will dissipate and her natural aggressiveness will result in both more points, rebounds and blocks.

With games with UCLA and USC forthcoming, I think the time has come for Jana's minutes to increase substantially.

She needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble..

 

[ConnecticutBB]

She needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble..

Plus she needs to be more proficient with her hook shot.