Tim Abromaitis Commits NCAA Violation

[upstater]

I'm not saying that they should be punished for kicking kids out but for not running a program whose players contribute to the academic environment of a university. That was really a good attempt to spin words though.

As to recruiting players that are early NBA entrants, that should not be a crime, you're right. I think that a better metric than simple graduation rate or even some of the newer "progress" rates needs to be found. But if you were to remove the early entrants to the NBA draft it doesn't affect many graduation rates significantly. The NCAA is historically bad at measuring the right things. I don't know if this is still the case, but players who died, and those who transferred and graduated elsewhere used to count against a school's graduation rate.

The point is that the NCAA is really worried about minutia of rules that don't matter rather than making good rules that actually motivate outcomes that would be consistent with their stated mission.

I agree with you on the bogusity of the APR.

But you're slandering Calhoun for recruiting kids not contributing to the academic environment of the university. One such kid, a laptop kid, in this case, was the product of a two parent family, both of whom were professionals with Ivy League degrees, he was raised in the suburbs, experienced a life-threatening illness while at Uconn, overcame it, got into trouble, served his one year suspension, and then subsequently graduated.

You're saying that Calhoun should not have recruited a kid like this? Really?

 

[intlzncster]

Do you really believe that was their only involvement in the crime, and does that make them any less guilty even if you do? It's difficult to have a reasonable conversation with unreasonable people.

Are you aware of something I'm not? Why read more into a situation than is actually there? The kids were never even in possession of the laptops. Why not claim that Calhoun handed 10 grand to Nate Miles? As long as we are reading whatever we want into things. As I said, they were guilty of what they did and were punished accordingly with respect to the University's student code of conduct.

It's not a stretch in the least to say that the media often exaggerates the situation, especially with UConn (both because of ESPN's proximity and JC's intractable ways with media members--he's a polarizing figure). For example, the original Yahoo article is responsible for many of the inaccuracies in the Nate Miles investigation. Much of it was unfounded, but once it gets passed along often enough, it becomes "fact".

Being reasonable is separating yourself from media reports and investigating what is in 'official' reports, the primary sources. Most people are more interested in getting up in arms at Calhoun, rather than taking the time to investigate the facts of the matter.

 

[Walker11]

Guy, your brother is missing 4 games. It seems to me that you are overreacting. Why are you even attacking Uconn after your brother had a minor punishment for an extremely minor violation. Most Uconn fans root for your brother and wish that he could have played for us even though it was very hard to project him being such a great player.

Detroit is the only decent game that he will miss and they are going to be missing their best inside player.

 

[upstater]

Agreed that this forum can be a hornets nest, but as for who the NCAA is more unfair to, consider the outcome for UConn vs. Tim. UConn, regardless of what the transgression was, doesn't have Calhoun for three games against teams that they will kill. He can continue to coach forever. Tim loses 4 games, one of which is against a tough Detroit team that has two very good players that are going to be borderline NBA talents. He cannot suit up for ND next year. So yes, preaching to the choir, but I think if the choir were being honest with themselves, they'd recognize that they got pretty lucky relative to Tim.

You act like UConn wasn't docked multiple scholarships for something that isn't even illegal anymore.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm not saying that they should be punished for kicking kids out but for not running a program whose players contribute to the academic environment of a university. That was really a good attempt to spin words though.

As to recruiting players that are early NBA entrants, that should not be a crime, you're right. I think that a better metric than simple graduation rate or even some of the newer "progress" rates needs to be found. But if you were to remove the early entrants to the NBA draft it doesn't affect many graduation rates significantly. The NCAA is historically bad at measuring the right things. I don't know if this is still the case, but players who died, and those who transferred and graduated elsewhere used to count against a school's graduation rate.

The point is that the NCAA is really worried about minutia of rules that don't matter rather than making good rules that actually motivate outcomes that would be consistent with their stated mission.

You won't find a single person on this forum who does not agree with most of this post. The NCAA does not handle transfer situations well either, regarding APR. Upstater was referring to the fact that you brought up "kids getting kicked out" as one of you examples of Calhoun's failings. I'd say it's the right thing to do, more than anything.

 

[ctchamps]

Agreed that this forum can be a hornets nest, but as for who the NCAA is more unfair to, consider the outcome for UConn vs. Tim. UConn, regardless of what the transgression was, doesn't have Calhoun for three games against teams that they will kill. He can continue to coach forever. Tim loses 4 games, one of which is against a tough Detroit team that has two very good players that are going to be borderline NBA talents. He cannot suit up for ND next year. So yes, preaching to the choir, but I think if the choir were being honest with themselves, they'd recognize that they got pretty lucky relative to Tim.

Neither deserved the loss of any games. The issue is with the NCAA and even more importantly how college sports has evolved into big time money. You want things to improve, start a campaign to drop the contract ND has with NBC. Those type of contracts have upped the stakes for a lot of universities to go after the media $$.

I want to reiterate people are going after your assertion JC is running a dirty or undignified program. He isn't. No one is taking you to task about the NCAA.

Certain Division Ia schools have a better position of taking kids into their program with "better backgrounds" and less of a chance in getting into trouble. They are ND, Stanford and Duke. And even these schools have their share of problems. The rest of the major schools are in the same position with who they are recruiting and its not surprising they have similar problems. I would argue that many of these schools have done a better job concealing their problems than UConn whose AD was adversarial to the coach instead of supportive. That is only provable if all the programs can be properly investigated and not on just a tip here or there. The NCAA does not have the resources or the backing of the universities to take this on.

That doesn't make this whole mess right. It is the nature of the beast and finger pointing at one coach or program doesn't accomplish anything. I would argue that JC has stretched the rules at times. But relative to his accomplishments it is hard to substantiate he has be egregious of major infractions. Even with this third NC, UConn still struggle in head to head battles for recruits against other major programs with less success. So something isn't adding up for JC to be considered dirty. What adds up is he is not charismatic or polished as other coaches. And that makes him a target.

 

[intlzncster]

Agreed that this forum can be a hornets nest, but as for who the NCAA is more unfair to, consider the outcome for UConn vs. Tim. UConn, regardless of what the transgression was, doesn't have Calhoun for three games against teams that they will kill. He can continue to coach forever. Tim loses 4 games, one of which is against a tough Detroit team that has two very good players that are going to be borderline NBA talents. He cannot suit up for ND next year. So yes, preaching to the choir, but I think if the choir were being honest with themselves, they'd recognize that they got pretty lucky relative to Tim.

Of course it hurts the player more, given that they have a limited college career. We had similar things happen with players before, Charlie Villenueva coming to mind.

The suspension for JC more of a token gesture, appearingto be more about NCAA PR than anything else. The real punishment came with the docking of scholarships.

 

[Waquoit]

The punishment does not fit the crime because there was no crime. What exactly was Tim supposed to have done differently? "Coach, I don't think I should go in for the last ~8 minutes of these scrimmages that don't count because you might come to me in a week and ask me to redshirt."

Players get 4 years to play. It goes by way too fast. For the NCAA to steal 4 games from him is a sin. What harm did he cause anyone, and how does the punishment fit the NCAA's mission of keeping the "experience of the stuident-athlete paramount"?

Here is the real sin - Jim Calhoun gets a 3 game suspension for "failing to create an atmosphere of compliance" and he can coach until he is 100 (and very likely may). Tim gets about 120-130 chances to suit up, and he loses 4 of them because of a technicality. Way to go NCAA - always looking out for the kids.

I guess rules are rules unless it's a Notre Dame player. He should be gone by rule. Instead he's getting over and we got some guy whining about the slap on the wrist. It must be great living a life of of unearned priviledge.

 

[pepband99]

Exactly, this is why this guy's BS on Calhoun rings so hollow. If Calhoun did this with one of our players, he would add it as another "point" in his string of BS - "tried to sneak a player in for an exhibition game - what a scumbag!"

 

[HuskyCarlJ]

Agreed that this forum can be a hornets nest, but as for who the NCAA is more unfair to, consider the outcome for UConn vs. Tim. UConn, regardless of what the transgression was, doesn't have Calhoun for three games against teams that they will kill. He can continue to coach forever. Tim loses 4 games, one of which is against a tough Detroit team that has two very good players that are going to be borderline NBA talents. He cannot suit up for ND next year. So yes, preaching to the choir, but I think if the choir were being honest with themselves, they'd recognize that they got pretty lucky relative to Tim.

I think this explains why equivocating this two suspensions is not fair. Abromitis' violation is minor, hence his suspension for 4 regular season games (Mississippi Valley State, Detroit, Sam Houston State, and Delaware State--all home). Calhoun's is for 3 Big East games, and was for 3 Big East games before the schedule was decided. The argument here is that its more lenient because the games are: @South Florida, St. John's (home), @Seton Hall. That the poster thinks that these are "teams [UConn] will kill" while at the same time fearing a matchup with Detroit is kind of funny.

 

[Burnsbros23]

This happened to Marcus Johnson. He played two exhibition games before transferring and they counted that as a full year. He had to appeal after his senior year at USC to get his fifth year. He was suspended two games.

 

[Scot-e]

Cry me a river. I think the NCAA- (considering they screw up 80% of everything they touch) did a fine job of not over penalizing the kid. He will miss a few games- he will live.
It's almost a non-story- but there is only so many times you can post "pitt is scum" when there is no news.

 

[Kitaman]

Why the hell do they include exhibition games anyway? Amazing how the only thing those games count for are NCAA violations. This should be changed and allow exhibition games to be used for player evaluation (including potential medical redshirts). Or is that too logical.

 

[UconnDon]

I can't remember a staff (a) not understanding how a year of eligibility works and (b) the NCAA saying "it's cool, just sit out 4 games".

http://www.und.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/101111aaa.html

I think ND deserves some penalty or award for stupidity as that English in the subject NCAA by-law is pretty straight forward. It is not the usuall legalese and mumbo jumbo language.

Certainly the player should not take the fall for a de minimis violation when HE is the one charged with not understanding the rules.

Also, if telephone calls to recruits are now somewhat permissible, where's our buddy, Sampson? That was the offense for which he was ejected from Okla., or was it denying the offense to the administration??? Memory eludes me occasionally.

 

[Waquoit]

Props to Jason for using his real name , BTW.