Three Choices for the coaching situation

[UConn990411]

He really dominated in the NBA all-star game, didn't he?

LOL, you are truly braindead.

 

[PhilG]

I'm going with retire Blaney and move Ollie into that slot. It will give him more coaching experience until JC retires (you really got to be drunk or high or just stupid if you think UCONN would ever fire JC).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If the comment was that Robinson wasn't a great athlete, that might be arguable. I remember it being more along the lines of Robinson not being a BE caliber athlete. That is/was insane.

I said Robinson wasn't a great athlete by Big East standards. He wasn't then, and he wouldn't be if he was playing in the Big East now. Robinson was a great dunker. For 90% of the idiots on this board, that means he is a great athlete, but the reality is he was outright slow for his position and did not have great body control. Guys like Tony Robertson or Scott Burrell were great athletes. They would blow by people and could explode off the ground, in the middle of traffic, or contort themselves absurdly to make a shot or pass moving at full speed.

Robinson's go to move by his senior year was a leaning, turnaround jumper, hardly the signature of a great athlete. He had a few nice dunks in traffic, but for the most part he needed an open lane to the hoop to throw it down because he didn't have the handle or body control to avoid contact. Most importantly, every "great athlete" is at least a very good defender, because their physical superiority gives them a huge advantage on defense. Robinson was an average defender, and it wasn't from lack of effort. Robinson was a good player that worked hard and developed a nice post up game. The mythology that he was a great athlete came out of recruiting and some nice dunks. Robinson would be a great athlete if he was playing in the field house on a Saturday afternoon. Against Big East competition, he was not a great athlete.

People keep bringing this comment up from three years ago to attack me. I was right about it then, and everything that has happened since has validated by assessment. I am the one that should be saying "I told you so".

 

[HuskyBballFan]

I said Robinson wasn't a great athlete by Big East standards. He wasn't then, and he wouldn't be if he was playing in the Big East now. Robinson was a great dunker. For 90% of the idiots on this board, that means he is a great athlete, but the reality is he was outright slow for his position and did not have great body control. Guys like Tony Robertson or Scott Burrell were great athletes. They would blow by people and could explode off the ground, in the middle of traffic, or contort themselves absurdly to make a shot or pass moving at full speed.

Robinson's go to move by his senior year was a leaning, turnaround jumper, hardly the signature of a great athlete. He had a few nice dunks in traffic, but for the most part he needed an open lane to the hoop to throw it down because he didn't have the handle or body control to avoid contact. Most importantly, every "great athlete" is at least a very good defender, because their physical superiority gives them a huge advantage on defense. Robinson was an average defender, and it wasn't from lack of effort. Robinson was a good player that worked hard and developed a nice post up game. The mythology that he was a great athlete came out of recruiting and some nice dunks. Robinson would be a great athlete if he was playing in the field house on a Saturday afternoon. Against Big East competition, he was not a great athlete.

People keep bringing this comment up from three years ago to attack me. I was right about it then, and everything that has happened since has validated by assessment. I am the one that should be saying "I told you so".

Not to belabor the point, because it isn't even the point of this thread. But Stanley Robinson was a perimeter player who couldn't dribble and had a very limited basketball IQ. That he was able to average over 15 points per game his senior year is because of one thing only - his athletic ability. He scored because he jumped over people for rebounds and alley-oops or he beat other 6'9'' guys down the floor for easy baskets. Those are not functions of basketball skill, they are functions of athleticism.

 

[junglehusky]

So if I have this right, 2-3 years of poor recruiting outweighs all other considerations. Apparently if UConn has two bad years of recruiting, it would cause irreperable harm to the program that a good hire could not reverse. Thus making "Fire Calhoun" and "Fire Manuel" viable or even necessary choices if Manuel is not willing to appoint Ollie coach-in-waiting now, and forever shut the door on all other candidates.

I'm reading between the lines here, so correct me if I'm wrong because I don't want to put words in your mouth Nelson, but are you concluding that 1) there is no coach in the nation other than Kevin Ollie who can run the UConn basketball program at a successful level or 2) UConn / Manuel doesn't have the ability to find / hire such a coach?

 

[caw]

I said Robinson wasn't a great athlete by Big East standards. He wasn't then, and he wouldn't be if he was playing in the Big East now. Robinson was a great dunker. For 90% of the idiots on this board, that means he is a great athlete, but the reality is he was outright slow for his position and did not have great body control. Guys like Tony Robertson or Scott Burrell were great athletes. They would blow by people and could explode off the ground, in the middle of traffic, or contort themselves absurdly to make a shot or pass moving at full speed.

Robinson's go to move by his senior year was a leaning, turnaround jumper, hardly the signature of a great athlete. He had a few nice dunks in traffic, but for the most part he needed an open lane to the hoop to throw it down because he didn't have the handle or body control to avoid contact. Most importantly, every "great athlete" is at least a very good defender, because their physical superiority gives them a huge advantage on defense. Robinson was an average defender, and it wasn't from lack of effort. Robinson was a good player that worked hard and developed a nice post up game. The mythology that he was a great athlete came out of recruiting and some nice dunks. Robinson would be a great athlete if he was playing in the field house on a Saturday afternoon. Against Big East competition, he was not a great athlete.

People keep bringing this comment up from three years ago to attack me. I was right about it then, and everything that has happened since has validated by assessment. I am the one that should be saying "I told you so".

Rank the better athlete (not basketball player) A, B, C?

A) Max Vert, 33.5, 11'11.5", Agility 12.33, Sprint 3.45, Reach 9'2", Wingspan 7'4.75"
B) Max Vert, 37.5, 12'1", Agility 11.65, Sprint 3.23, Reach 8'11.5", Wingspan 7'0"
C) Max Vert, 40.5, 12'3.7", Agility 11.03, Sprint 3.32, Reach 8'11.2", Wingspan 7'3"


I'm not sure how you are validated by your assessment? He isn't in the NBA, true. He was drafted in the second round, indicating he was thought of as a possible NBA caliber player or NBA caliber athlete. Stanley may not be a great basketball player, but athletically he is top-notch.

Yes, he can dunk:

He had a 37.5 inch vertical, which is tied for 40th overall for SF's in the DX database.

Max Vert reach of 12'1. Of SF's tested he trails Rudy Gay (12'3.5), Kenny Gregory, Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith, Jamario Moon, and Al Thornton.

Just for fun, he ran the lane agility in 11.65. NBA players with similar lane agility: Marquis Daniels, Trevor Ariza, Jamario Moon at 11.62-11.64 or Corey Brewer, Devan Ebanks at 11.69 or Mbah a Moute at 11.70.

As for the 3/4 court sprint, Robinson ran it in 3.23. Faster than Rudy Gay, Ryan Gomes, Nick Young, Evan Turner, Trevor Ariza, Mike Dunleavy, Luol Deng, Adam Morrison, Jae Crowder, Terrence Jones, Sam Young (should I keep going?).

Those are measurements of a BE caliber athlete.

The fact of the matter is that Stanley was simply not a great basketball player, not even a very good one. He couldn't dribble and he couldn't shoot. He was such a phenomenal athlete he was able to start on a final four team and get drafted based purely on his athletic ability.

 

[Waquoit]

I think Ollie is a free option for Manuel, because you don't have to make a long-term commitment to Ollie. ... My point is, Manuel should just name Ollie CiW, no matter what Manuel really plans on doing.

This approach is way too cynical. You are asking a new AD to make a bad-faith, Machavellian hire. I don't blame him for not wanting to do it. However, you are right to allude to the fact that Calhoun will not willingly agree to anything less than total capitulation.

And I also agree that the status quo is unacceptable. Many of us know JC's coach speak by now. When he says "we have had several productive discussions" he means "we haven't had any productive discussions." If they were productive, why would they need more than one? How many items are on this agenda?

There is clearly tension between JC and Manuel. And it’s all on Calhoun. In his mind, JC refuses to admit to himself or anyone else that he did anything wrong or that he has any culpability for any of the negative things that happened to the program on his watch. He’s like Pete Rose here. Through his eyes, not getting what he wants regarding the future of the program is an insult to him and what he has achieved. He thinks he is fighting for his legacy, I’m not sure he realizes his legacy has already been written. Great but flawed coach who crossed the line once or twice along the way.

Manuel sees the situation through a different set of eyes. He sees an Athletic Department that is fighting for its future. He sees a basketball program on probation, down scholarships and banned from the post-season led by a head coach in complete denial. He knows what happened to the last AD who ended up on the wrong side of JC and that guy let Calhoun do whatever he wanted. Manual also knows that the future of UConn athletics is bigger than one man’s self-perceived legacy. But he’s still the new guy, a Michigan man. He doesn’t want to act rashly, he’s not going to push JC now; but he doesn’t want to capitulate. Why should he? He’ll wait until this turd of a season is over.

What I wish would happen: Calhoun sees the light, realizes that no good is coming from his approach, stops worrying about things he can’t control and works with the rest of the department to restore UConn’s luster. A win-win.

What just might happen: The impasse continues and JC retires just before the season due to health issues. Manuel is forced to name an interim coach from within, all of whom are from the Calhoun “tree”. That way if the Napier-led team surpasses expectations, the new coach gets the interim title removed and the JC legacy continues. Mission accomplished.

What I hope doesn't happen: Neither side budges, the “rock-star” AD gets the support of the President and JC gets eased out. JC doesn’t go quietly. A lose-lose. All things end badly, if they didn’t they wouldn’t end.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Naming Ollie CiW is not cynical, it lets Manuel test drive him before he has to make a final decision. Can Ollie recruit kids to play for him? How does he handle game situations when Calhoun is absent? Manuel can learn a lot about an unknown quality with low risk. If, in March 2014, Ollie isn't getting it done on the recruiting trail and the program seems to be in a decline, Manuel just says that Ollie did not meet expectations and is gone. Ollie won't have much of a basis for complaining about it if he is canned at that point, because if he couldn't get it done with Calhoun there, how would things be better when Calhoun wasn't there?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Rank the better athlete (not basketball player) A, B, C?

A) Max Vert, 33.5, 11'11.5", Agility 12.33, Sprint 3.45, Reach 9'2", Wingspan 7'4.75"
B) Max Vert, 37.5, 12'1", Agility 11.65, Sprint 3.23, Reach 8'11.5", Wingspan 7'0"
C) Max Vert, 40.5, 12'3.7", Agility 11.03, Sprint 3.32, Reach 8'11.2", Wingspan 7'3"


I'm not sure how you are validated by your assessment? He isn't in the NBA, true. He was drafted in the second round, indicating he was thought of as a possible NBA caliber player or NBA caliber athlete. Stanley may not be a great basketball player, but athletically he is top-notch.

Yes, he can dunk:

He had a 37.5 inch vertical, which is tied for 40th overall for SF's in the DX database.

Max Vert reach of 12'1. Of SF's tested he trails Rudy Gay (12'3.5), Kenny Gregory, Hakim Warrick, Josh Smith, Jamario Moon, and Al Thornton.

Just for fun, he ran the lane agility in 11.65. NBA players with similar lane agility: Marquis Daniels, Trevor Ariza, Jamario Moon at 11.62-11.64 or Corey Brewer, Devan Ebanks at 11.69 or Mbah a Moute at 11.70.

As for the 3/4 court sprint, Robinson ran it in 3.23. Faster than Rudy Gay, Ryan Gomes, Nick Young, Evan Turner, Trevor Ariza, Mike Dunleavy, Luol Deng, Adam Morrison, Jae Crowder, Terrence Jones, Sam Young (should I keep going?).

Those are measurements of a BE caliber athlete.

The fact of the matter is that Stanley was simply not a great basketball player, not even a very good one. He couldn't dribble and he couldn't shoot. He was such a phenomenal athlete he was able to start on a final four team and get drafted based purely on his athletic ability.

So what? Watch the games. Robinson couldn't get by people and lots of people got by him. Because someone with a stop watch gave Robinson some nice measurements doesn't make him a great athlete. Rudy Gay was effortless when he would go to the hoop or defend someone. Rudy Gay was by no means a great player when he left UConn, but his athleticism carried the day in college and made him into a very good NBA player. Why didn't Robinson's athleticism carry the day in the League if he is so good?

I think it is telling you have to keep recharacterizing what I said in this debate. I didn't say he wasn't a Big East caliber athlete. I said he wasn't a great athlete by Big East standards. If someone is a GREAT athlete by Big East standards, they are one of the 2-3 best athletes at their position during their time at college. Robinson just wasn't there.

 

[freescooter]

This approach is way too cynical. You are asking a new AD to make a bad-faith, Machavellian hire. I don't blame him for not wanting to do it. However, you are right to allude to the fact that Calhoun will not willingly agree to anything less than total capitulation.

And I also agree that the status quo is unacceptable. Many of us know JC's coach speak by now. When he says "we have had several productive discussions" he means "we haven't had any productive discussions." If they were productive, why would they need more than one? How many items are on this agenda?

There is clearly tension between JC and Manuel. And it’s all on Calhoun. In his mind, JC refuses to admit to himself or anyone else that he did anything wrong or that he has any culpability for any of the negative things that happened to the program on his watch. He’s like Pete Rose here. Through his eyes, not getting what he wants regarding the future of the program is an insult to him and what he has achieved. He thinks he is fighting for his legacy, I’m not sure he realizes his legacy has already been written. Great but flawed coach who crossed the line once or twice along the way.

Manuel sees the situation through a different set of eyes. He sees an Athletic Department that is fighting for its future. He sees a basketball program on probation, down scholarships and banned from the post-season led by a head coach in complete denial. He knows what happened to the last AD who ended up on the wrong side of JC and that guy let Calhoun do whatever he wanted. Manual also knows that the future of UConn athletics is bigger than one man’s self-perceived legacy. But he’s still the new guy, a Michigan man. He doesn’t want to act rashly, he’s not going to push JC now; but he doesn’t want to capitulate. Why should he? He’ll wait until this turd of a season is over.

What I wish would happen: Calhoun sees the light, realizes that no good is coming from his approach, stops worrying about things he can’t control and works with the rest of the department to restore UConn’s luster. A win-win.

What just might happen: The impasse continues and JC retires just before the season due to health issues. Manuel is forced to name an interim coach from within, all of whom are from the Calhoun “tree”. That way if the Napier-led team surpasses expectations, the new coach gets the interim title removed and the JC legacy continues. Mission accomplished.

What I hope doesn't happen: Neither side budges, the “rock-star” AD gets the support of the President and JC gets eased out. JC doesn’t go quietly. A lose-lose. All things end badly, if they didn’t they wouldn’t end.

You read this the same way I read this situation. And your possible outcomes are similar to mine, too. The only kicker in this is in your second option, I'm not sure you account for the possiblity that Blaney, as Associate head Coach gets named to the interim slot on the theory that "its a wasted season anyway, and we will be hiring a new coach next year.

 

[Waquoit]

I'm not sure you account for the possiblity that Blaney, ....

Just can't see Manual giving the keys to Blaney after last season's less than impressive stint filling in.

 

[Kitaman]

I just wish that when posters have a brain fart it isn't smelly or long lasting.

 

[johnhuskies95]

So what? Watch the games. Robinson couldn't get by people and lots of people got by him. Because someone with a stop watch gave Robinson some nice measurements doesn't make him a great athlete. Rudy Gay was effortless when he would go to the hoop or defend someone. Rudy Gay was by no means a great player when he left UConn, but his athleticism carried the day in college and made him into a very good NBA player. Why didn't Robinson's athleticism carry the day in the League if he is so good?

I think it is telling you have to keep recharacterizing what I said in this debate. I didn't say he wasn't a Big East caliber athlete. I said he wasn't a great athlete by Big East standards. If someone is a GREAT athlete by Big East standards, they are one of the 2-3 best athletes at their position during their time at college. Robinson just wasn't there.

Have you ever thought that the reason he couldn't get by people "effortlessly"(I'm not exactly sure how the hell you can say that somebody did something "effortlessly" when you've never done it yourself, but that is besides the point) is because he struggled to dribble?