Thoughts on the NPOY (again) | The Boneyard

Thoughts on the NPOY (again)

oldude

oldude

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Since we have a week until the Big Dance, what better time to post another thread on NPOY. By now we all know that no freshman has ever won a NPOY award. That clearly puts Paige at a disadvantage. At the same time, it’s worth mentioning some other factors often considered by sportswriters, coaches and others when voting for these awards.

CPOY’s – While not completely out of the question, it would be extremely unlikely for any player not chosen as their respective Conference Player of the Year to win NPOY. With that said, the following players have been designated CPOY’s by each of the P-5 conferences along with the BE:
  • ACC – Dana Evans, Louisville
  • Big East – Paige Bueckers, UConn
  • Big 10 – Naz Hillmon, Michigan
  • Big 12 – NaLyssa Smith, Baylor
  • Pac 12 – Aari McDonald, Arizona
  • SEC – Rhyne Howard, Kentucky
Conference Champions – All the respective CPOY’s had great seasons, but I would make the argument that leading a conference championship team gives players a slight edge. Of the CPOY’s listed, three of their teams earned conference championships: Baylor (Smith), Louisville (Evans) and UConn (Paige). Looking a little deeper, Louisville tied for the ACC conference championship with NCSt, losing to the Wolfpack in the conference tournament. At present, only Paige’s UConn team won both the regular season outright as well as the conference tournament, although Smith and Baylor are favored to win the Big 12 conference tournament this weekend.

We’re Number 1 – If being the best player on a conference championship team gives a player an edge for NPOY, then being the best player on the consensus #1 team in the nation can’t hurt. Now who would that be?

Media Buzz – As I indicated, all the respective CPOY’s had great seasons. The people who vote on these awards no doubt take them seriously. But there is a question as to how much every voter has been able to watch every potential NPOY throughout the season. There is a momentum that builds behind a particular candidate that often follows a media narrative. Last season consensus NPOY Sabrina Ionescu strung together a series of well publicized triple-doubles for Oregon, the Pac-12 champions and one of the top teams in the country. This season, with all due respect to the other players, Paige has taken WBB by storm. Wherever WBB is covered or discussed, Paige’s exploits on the court have already become the stuff of legend, and the legend is growing.

When asked about Paige as NPOY, Geno provided an answer we have heard before, “Name one player who’s done more for their team.” I have no idea if Paige will win any of the NPOY awards this season. But I sense a building momentum behind the possibility of Paige earning one or more such award. I know she has another goal in mind, as we all do. But a couple NPOY’s on the way to a 12th banner would be a beautiful thing.
 
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Even though voters are not supposed to take into account Conference Tournaments, I think they do it subconsciously or consciously. In that event Evans hurt herself while Paige helped her case a bit. On the other hand, if Caitlin can somehow push Iowa to the Big10 championship or even just the final, that might be the deciding factor for many.

One factor I would like to add to Paige's case is that I do not think we take into account Paige's Defense enough. Not just her jumping the passing lanes but how hard she works at her overall positioning and defense. She is always moving on both sides of the court and fighting through all manner of screens and motion both on the perimeter and in the interior. And you can be sure that registers with her teammates. If your best player gives that effort on both sides, then all her team mates are pushed to do the same. And with her body type, that effort through traffic can't be easy. (Having Caitlin's Physicality would be pretty convenient) I think that is a significant reason our defense has become so strong. Stuff like that (and other intangibles) unfortunately might not be detected by the average voter but I sure see it.
 
Right On Oldude!
Well Put!
You took the words right out of my mouth!
All conference players deserve a shout-out, but PB has the most all-around game of all.....at least IMO. Her defense for me is the best of the 6 CPOY’s.
 
Easily one of the best posts I have ever read on the BY. Not bad for an Oldude.
To complete Geno's quote when asked about NPOY. "Show me a player who has done more for her team, to lead them to where they want to go. I will vote for them"
Where you want to go is the number one seed in the tournament, which Paige will most likely do.
 
oldude said:
Not usually known for being brief and to the point, I seldom if ever use fewer words....
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You seldom use fewer words and Bama fan uses unusual words. Sends me running to find a dictionary.:confused:
 
browns: Well, let’s see how they stack-up if they meet in the tournament! Just saying........
 
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browns said:
Sorry that's not true..Aari McDonald was the Pac 12 DPOY..so that's not even close
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At 5’6”, McDonald is a tenacious defender to be sure, but Paige’s size gives her an advantage over McDonald when switching onto opposing Bigs. Against Stanford, McDonald was caught in switches several times against Bigs who buried her in the paint and easily scored over her.
 
oldude said:
At 5’6”, McDonald is a tenacious defender to be sure, but Paige’s size gives her an advantage over McDonald when switching onto opposing Bigs. Against Stanford, McDonald was caught in switches several times against Bigs who buried her in the paint and easily scored over her.
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That will happen in any game..happened to Mojeff when she got switched onto bigs..would you say Paige is as good a defender as Moria ? Hardly..You don't get voted DPOY in the Pac12 unless your outstanding..Paige has come a long way with her defense but she's not in the same class as McDonald..Her size gives her an advantage in switches but thats it
 
browns said:
That will happen in any game..happened to Mojeff when she got switched onto bigs..would you say Paige is as good a defender as Moria ? Hardly..You don't get voted DPOY in the Pac12 unless your outstanding..Paige has come a long way with her defense but she's not in the same class as McDonald..Her size gives her an advantage in switches but thats it
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Again, the difference between McDonald and Paige on defense is a coin toss imo. They are virtually tied in steals and rebounds. Paige has a distinct edge in blocks and is more versatile in terms of defensive matchups.
 
Your joking ,right? Was Paige even in consideration for DPOY in the Big East. No..Paige has become a decent defender,not great and certainly not elite like Aari.Heck Paige isn't even the best defender on her own team CW is.
I guess you really believed Paige when she said tongue-in -cheek to Geno that she thought she was the best defender in the nation
 
browns said:
Your joking ,right? Was Paige even in consideration for DPOY in the Big East. No..Paige has become a decent defender,not great and certainly not elite like Aari.Heck Paige isn't even the best defender on her own team CW is.
I guess you really believed Paige when she said tongue-in -cheek to Geno that she thought she was the best defender in the nation
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Someone might have told her that she leads the country in defensive win shares. Which is true. But it just means she’s played the most minutes on a top defensive team, so things like opponents points per possession while she’s on the floor are low.

However, if if gets her to take pride in her defense and go out there and try to prove it, great.
 
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Gurleyman said:
Someone might have told her that she leads the country in defensive win shares. Which is true. But it just means she’s played the most minutes on a top defensive team, so things like opponents points per possession while she’s on the floor are low.

However, if if gets her to take pride in her defense and go out there and try to prove it, great.
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I think they also said she leads in 40 minute adjusted. Not sure how that stat works but maybe it would be interesting to see how Liv and CW rate.
 
oldude said:
Since we have a week until the Big Dance, what better time to post another thread on NPOY. By now we all know that no freshman has ever won a NPOY award. That clearly puts Paige at a disadvantage. At the same time, it’s worth mentioning some other factors often considered by sportswriters, coaches and others when voting for these awards.

CPOY’s – While not completely out of the question, it would be extremely unlikely for any player not chosen as their respective Conference Player of the Year to win NPOY. With that said, the following players have been designated CPOY’s by each of the P-5 conferences along with the BE:
  • ACC – Dana Evans, Louisville
  • Big East – Paige Bueckers, UConn
  • Big 10 – Naz Hillmon, Michigan
  • Big 12 – NaLyssa Smith, Baylor
  • Pac 12 – Aari McDonald, Arizona
  • SEC – Rhyne Howard, Kentucky
Conference Champions – All the respective CPOY’s had great seasons, but I would make the argument that leading a conference championship team gives players a slight edge. Of the CPOY’s listed, three of their teams earned conference championships: Baylor (Smith), Louisville (Evans) and UConn (Paige). Looking a little deeper, Louisville tied for the ACC conference championship with NCSt, losing to the Wolfpack in the conference tournament. At present, only Paige’s UConn team won both the regular season outright as well as the conference tournament, although Smith and Baylor are favored to win the Big 12 conference tournament this weekend.

We’re Number 1 – If being the best player on a conference championship team gives a player an edge for NPOY, then being the best player on the consensus #1 team in the nation can’t hurt. Now who would that be?

Media Buzz – As I indicated, all the respective CPOY’s had great seasons. The people who vote on these awards no doubt take them seriously. But there is a question as to how much every voter has been able to watch every potential NPOY throughout the season. There is a momentum that builds behind a particular candidate that often follows a media narrative. Last season consensus NPOY Sabrina Ionescu strung together a series of well publicized triple-doubles for Oregon, the Pac-12 champions and one of the top teams in the country. This season, with all due respect to the other players, Paige has taken WBB by storm. Wherever WBB is covered or discussed, Paige’s exploits on the court have already become the stuff of legend, and the legend is growing.

When asked about Paige as NPOY, Geno provided an answer we have heard before, “Name one player who’s done more for their team.” I have no idea if Paige will win any of the NPOY awards this season. But I sense a building momentum behind the possibility of Paige earning one or more such award. I know she has another goal in mind, as we all do. But a couple NPOY’s on the way to a 12th banner would be a beautiful thing.
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Obviously, she's one of 5. Hard to be NPOY without being 1st team all-American. I say IMO, throw out the Baylor player and the NC State center (all due respect) That leaves 3. Boston, Paige, and Evans.
Now, PLEASE SOMEONE definitively announce how the voting for this award goes. When does voting start? When does voting conclude? I read that voting is open until the conclusion of the semi-final games. Please correct me!!!
Frankly, how can we intellectually discuss this topic without highlighting the rules of the vote. (sorry, I love ya oldude)
Again frankly, this award ain't worth the metal it was molded out of, if voters aren't allowed to see the players perform on the biggest stage. If I find something to be senseless or meaningless, I ignore it. Even at work. This award HAS TO include the tournament.
BTW I feel something epic rumbling in the ground!! (knock on wood)
 
browns said:
Your joking ,right? Was Paige even in consideration for DPOY in the Big East. No..Paige has become a decent defender,not great and certainly not elite like Aari.Heck Paige isn't even the best defender on her own team CW is.
I guess you really believed Paige when she said tongue-in -cheek to Geno that she thought she was the best defender in the nation
Expand ...
No, I am not joking. Paige is an excellent defender. We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue.
 
browns said:
Your joking ,right? Was Paige even in consideration for DPOY in the Big East. No..Paige has become a decent defender,not great and certainly not elite like Aari.Heck Paige isn't even the best defender on her own team CW is.
I guess you really believed Paige when she said tongue-in -cheek to Geno that she thought she was the best defender in the nation
Expand ...
OMG I hereby proclaim it to be sacrilege to mention Paige and Aari in the same sentence. Are you watching?
Are you seeing Paige's improvement as far as getting in the passing lanes. 1-2 break away steals per game. (pick 6 as they call it). See her get in front of the high post and deflect the pass vs Marquette. Defensive rebounding- very underrated. I guess you're talking about on-the-ball pressure defense. I'll give you that one! Firstly, we have Nika for that. Secondly, Aari is what 5'8" tops and Paige is ....well Paige. There are 6 or 7 basic aspects of team defense, 5 or 6 Paige is better than Aari, 1 in which Aari is better than Paige. Out
 
hart2hart said:
Right On Oldude!
Well Put!
You took the words right out of my mouth!
All conference players deserve a shout-out, but PB has the most all-around game of all.....at least IMO. Her defense for me is the best of the 6 CPOY’s.
Expand ...
I wouldn't vote for Aari McDonald as National POY, but Aari has twice been named PAC-12 Defensive POY, or, co-defensive POY in PAC-12.
 
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MD#12Fan said:
OMG I hereby proclaim it to be sacrilege to mention Paige and Aari in the same sentence. Are you watching?
Are you seeing Paige's improvement as far as getting in the passing lanes. 1-2 break away steals per game. (pick 6 as they call it). See her get in front of the high post and deflect the pass vs Marquette. Defensive rebounding- very underrated. I guess you're talking about on-the-ball pressure defense. I'll give you that one! Firstly, we have Nika for that. Secondly, Aari is what 5'8" tops and Paige is ....well Paige. There are 6 or 7 basic aspects of team defense, 5 or 6 Paige is better than Aari, 1 in which Aari is better than Paige. Out
Expand ...
Yes I'm talking about 1 on1 defense.I've seen countless times Paige is beaten and the player takes it to the basket. I'm not talking about team defense.Paige probably is better in the whole frame of team defense but this is about stopping the player your guarding and disrupting the offense..I mean there is a reason Ari has been named 2x DPOY or CO-DPOY in the pac-12..let me know when Paige ever reaches that status(and I hope she does) but for now let's be realistic..MoJeff was arguably the best defensive player in Uconn history but it sure helped having Stewie back there to bail her out so she could take chances..And I agree Paige all around is definitly better than Ari I never said she wasn't
 
Compared with other competitors, Paige has a really consistent performance in the tournament vs her regular season. I think it will add bonus point. And she will have a great chance to get her first NPOY in college.
 
Last edited:
MD#12Fan said:
Obviously, she's one of 5. Hard to be NPOY without being 1st team all-American. I say IMO, throw out the Baylor player and the NC State center (all due respect) That leaves 3. Boston, Paige, and Evans.
Now, PLEASE SOMEONE definitively announce how the voting for this award goes. When does voting start? When does voting conclude? I read that voting is open until the conclusion of the semi-final games. Please correct me!!!
Frankly, how can we intellectually discuss this topic without highlighting the rules of the vote. (sorry, I love ya oldude)
Again frankly, this award ain't worth the metal it was molded out of, if voters aren't allowed to see the players perform on the biggest stage. If I find something to be senseless or meaningless, I ignore it. Even at work. This award HAS TO include the tournament.
BTW I feel something epic rumbling in the ground!! (knock on wood)
Expand ...
As I see it,
MD#12Fan said:
Obviously, she's one of 5. Hard to be NPOY without being 1st team all-American. I say IMO, throw out the Baylor player and the NC State center (all due respect) That leaves 3. Boston, Paige, and Evans.
Now, PLEASE SOMEONE definitively announce how the voting for this award goes. When does voting start? When does voting conclude? I read that voting is open until the conclusion of the semi-final games. Please correct me!!!
Frankly, how can we intellectually discuss this topic without highlighting the rules of the vote. (sorry, I love ya oldude)
Again frankly, this award ain't worth the metal it was molded out of, if voters aren't allowed to see the players perform on the biggest stage. If I find something to be senseless or meaningless, I ignore it. Even at work. This award HAS TO include the tournament.
BTW I feel something epic rumbling in the ground!! (knock on wood)
Expand ...
Why would you throw out Cunane when her numbers are clearly better than Boston? ( except for rebounds and blocks) Also, it looks like the Baylor girl has at least comparable numbers as well! I guess playing for SC somehow gives you extra credit.
 
LoTrader said:
I wouldn't vote for Aari McDonald as National POY, but Aari has twice been named PAC-12 Defensive POY, or, co-defensive POY in PAC-12.
Expand ...
Agreed! Paige has made huge progress and I wouldn’t trade her for three McDonald’s but claiming that she’s a better defensive player than a two time PAC 12 defensive player of the year is two or three bridges too far!
 
chrissaran said:
Aari McDonald shoots less than 40% from the floor and less than 30% from 3. Great defense, but not a balanced player. Paige may not be a great defensive player, but her overall game is superior to Aari's.
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Is anyone arguing against that?
 
Cuango said:
Agreed! Paige has made huge progress and I wouldn’t trade her for three McDonald’s but claiming that she’s a better defensive player than a two time PAC 12 defensive player of the year is two or three bridges too far!
Expand ...
You are 100% correct!!
 
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