This is not good.

[hoophuskee]

I appreciate your post a lot.
Pressing is more akin to Baskin and Robbins 31 flavors, rather than chocolate and vanilla like you are intimating. I'm not going to go into the annals and mention the great college basketball teams historically that pressed. And with a variety of types of players. Crystal would be wonderful in a press. She can get into passing lanes, pressure ball handlers, and trap, even at her diminutive size. Anna is tall, rangy, and she has the basketball sense to anticipate. Yes I do think enough of Aubrey that a change could help her and the team. Do you think she's going to be a star? I do and I want to see her unleashed.
The court is 92 feet and I would like to see us utilize the whole court to our advantage. Remember UConn players traditionally are smart and savvy.
Back to the many flavors: Pressing does not by definition give up layups. The tactic can be used just to speed up the other team. Baylor- yes, they need to be sped up.
BTW Don't tell me you're right and I'm wrong. That's the stuff I'm talking about. You have an opinion and I have an opinion. I do not need a lecture about the historical success of UConn. I've been an avid fan since D. I think UConn women's basketball is one of the wonders of the world. I'd also like to see them press some. Out

As a reply to more of the basketball issues--
When you mentioned in your post of other teams that have pressed and were successful and your post that UCONN is smart and savvy – those comments mean nothing to me in relation to the argument we have had. We’re not the only team that is smart and savvy. And just because some teams have been great pressing doesn’t mean all teams are. Otherwise everyone would press. This UCONN team can press some but not as a rule.

But I think a major issue we have is in our assessment of Griffin vs how we think UCONN should play. Aubrey is my top 3 players to watch. However I have no idea what your definition of “unleashing Aubrey” means but imo at best she is the 5th best player on this team. I don’t know to what degree/definition I think that a 5th best player needs to be “unleashed.”

But until I see both ONO and Aubrey play together and play well vs top teams I don’t think they mesh well. Further, the way you speak of Aubrey you are more of the “athlete and defense” style. I prefer beautiful offense. I’d love pressing but they don’t have the players until next year. Until then you aren’t going to be happy while I am. IMO you are a defense first fan which I am not nor do I believe Geno is. And imo my way/ the Geno way sustains getting the elite number 1 tier rated recruits. Your way at bets is John Thompson – GTOWN Hoyas which is terrific but Geno’s way is more like Coach K Duke. Eventually the number 1 recruit stopped coming to GTOWN because of the mostly-all-defense style which you seem to favor by pushing Aubrey as you are. For me, not until next year or maybe just for a few games this year can I see Aubrey being “unleashed.”

 

[MD#12Fan]

As a reply to more of the basketball issues--
When you mentioned in your post of other teams that have pressed and were successful and your post that UCONN is smart and savvy – those comments mean nothing to me in relation to the argument we have had. We’re not the only team that is smart and savvy. And just because some teams have been great pressing doesn’t mean all teams are. Otherwise everyone would press. This UCONN team can press some but not as a rule.

But I think a major issue we have is in our assessment of Griffin vs how we think UCONN should play. Aubrey is my top 3 players to watch. However I have no idea what your definition of “unleashing Aubrey” means but imo at best she is the 5th best player on this team. I don’t know to what degree/definition I think that a 5th best player needs to be “unleashed.”

But until I see both ONO and Aubrey play together and play well vs top teams I don’t think they mesh well. Further, the way you speak of Aubrey you are more of the “athlete and defense” style. I prefer beautiful offense. I’d love pressing but they don’t have the players until next year. Until then you aren’t going to be happy while I am. IMO you are a defense first fan which I am not nor do I believe Geno is. And imo my way/ the Geno way sustains getting the elite number 1 tier rated recruits. Your way at bets is John Thompson – GTOWN Hoyas which is terrific but Geno’s way is more like Coach K Duke. Eventually the number 1 recruit stopped coming to GTOWN because of the mostly-all-defense style which you seem to favor by pushing Aubrey as you are. For me, not until next year or maybe just for a few games this year can I see Aubrey being “unleashed.”

Well written!
How did you know that I was a huge John Thompson fan? In fact (full disclosure)- I even appreciated his attempt at the Olympic Games to field a defensive oriented team, which under the circumstances (limited practice time, etc) was ill-conceived. (I'm even from D.C. and my HS coach coached Big John when he was in HS. A legendary DC team in the 50s- Archbishop Carroll)
I would argue that Coach K is "defensive oriented"too, however he is savvy offensively too, such as his early acceptance of the 3-point shot as a weapon. He comes from the Bobby Knight tree at Army and they teach the defensive fundamentals of ball pressure, denial of the wings, and fronting the post, with help and recover on drives, backdoors, etc. Watch them, I watched some of the Louisville game, they still do that stuff.
Good stuff! Thanks

 

[MD#12Fan]

I'm replying to two parts of your post. This is the 1st post. A non-basketball reply. This a reply directed more toward your non-basketball posts which I disagree with just as much as your view of the game. OFC you have the right to express - but so do I.

First off I’m confused. You said you appreciated my post but then went on to rip me about right or wrong? Well 1st off let me say I disagree with nearly everything you’ve said. I’m not angry when I say it. That’s okay we disagree, right? But I mean --- everything—though- other than very minor points. Even the non-basketball above in bold which a lot of this 1st post pertains to.

Now when it comes to posting I like to post using examples, stats and data among other things. And if we don’t agree on an opinion – then you are “telling me” in-a-manner-of-speak that my opinion is wrong even if you don’t say it. Someone is right here and someone is wrong. I think/ my opinion is that your pov on basketball is wrong. I gave prior examples and points why I think the press won’t work. You bring up Danger and Anna how they can do well in the press. So you disagree which is fine. But one of us is right. So ofc I’m going to mention that I’m right. IMO I am. I told you I was going to be blunt and I don't feel I was being mean or demeaning.

Further if you or bostonbay or anyone else makes posts such as implying that UCONN has been “less than stellar” over the past 4 years—you are going to get a reminder that UCONN was 36-1. I and others aren’t going to stop posting this "reminder" which you call a “lecture.” Because we don’t understand how anyone could logically believe such an amazing season as 36-1 is- could somehow be “less than stellar” without “winning any big games.”

So the reply isn’t just between one poster and another. For example a young kid could be reading ro someone being new as a fan or someone not a UCONN fan that doesn't know some of the history. IMO they need to see or can see the separation between some of us fans. For example, if you think 36-1 is “less than stellar,” or if you think “the team isn’t trying hard,” or if you think “Geno needs to change his current recruiting” or “change his coaching style by not screaming,” then others who read this and don’t follow UCONN as much or younger kids who might be reading this – they should be able to read at alternate pov using data presented that you might know but they might not and be allowed to make up their own minds. And I’ll say again that some posters on here need to be reminded too.

For me I'm not going to stop bringing up past data because I feel it is relevant. and if others feel it is relevant I hope they will bring up too. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I (or they) have to change. I won't unless the mods say "Stop."

I still appreciate you! I was referring to the knee-jerk response of many on this blog that totally rejects any criticism about the team. I personally think it's more fun to look at things more critically and provocatively. If I get run out of town, I'll just pack up and go. It is what it is. I don't care who I'm rooting for, I don't indulge in bathing in the kool-aid.
Final point- have you seen the pressers when Geno says, "I wished my team would lose' in reference to the team 2 years ago. What do you think he meant? He often refers to what he has built as a "burden".
I played for a veteran coach. They know how to win. Sometimes they become more reluctant to try different things, because obviously their systems are successful, maybe even close to flawless.

 

[CocoHusky]

Great counter-argument re: pressing. I don't agree with you regarding the length argument. Look at CW's and MW's length. National HS players of the year. Length is one of their attributes. Of course Liv is long. Could Liv be effective in the back of a press? Aubrey could be the best athlete in college basketball.
Now, Lauren Cox standing with the ball 12 feet from the basket, making her methodical moves that one could time with a sundial, and now position her 25 feet away due to defensive pressure. Sorry, not the same. We now have the advantage. It's all about advantages and matchups. Pressing also serves to speed up the opponent.
IMO you have to play out this season with the thought that Baylor is in your way. Like knowing you can't take that town without going through a Panzer parked at the entrance.
So, do you think we can do that with the same approach we had in game 1? Maybe. Could be a fun discussion.

Did you even watch the Baylor game? "Sundial" in reference to Cox is mad disrespectful. UCONN does not have the players or bench good enough to press effectively. Both players are max effort defenders however, Crystal is not tall enough and Christyn lacks lateral quickness to be effective at the top of the press. Aubrey has all the tools but the offense is going to suffer with her on the floor. This is a 4 year old UCONN problem (being unable to press effectively). This is the list of PG's that UCONN has been unable to effectively press or speed up in those 4 years-NONE of whom I consider elite PGs.

Itty Bitty of Mississippi State.​

The middle Mabrey of ND (2X)​

Dana Evans of Louisville​

Chloe Jackson of Baylor​

T'ea Cooper of Baylor (new to PG position)​

When you go back and watch the Baylor game you'll realize that Cooper was not defended until she had crossed half court for the majority of the game. Cooper is having a terrific season, but this is her first season with a + assist/TO ratio. Cooper also committed 7 TO in the UCONN game without being pressed.
Last season when Geno wanted to press it was Napheesa who was utilized at the top of the press the season prior to that it was Gabby and Kia. Gabby and Napheesa were needed and used to defend the post while Kia had no backup that could spell her for even few minutes.
To be fair UCONN has handled a number of elite PGs in that same time span such as Alexis Jones, Slocum, Kelsey Mitchell, Ionescu, Canada-UCLA, & Harris-SC. Now of those elite PG's were handled by UCONN using the press.

 

[Steelerone]

6 am???? After you retire you forget that time even existed.

 

[MD#12Fan]

You mention about wanting to have discussions- so can we be blunt here? I think how you look at the game is all wrong. How else can I say this without sounding mean? I do no want to be mean. But to start with, smart coaches take risks that make sense. What if your ideas are wrong? Then you just accuse the "old coach" of unwilling to take risks, right?. That's your fall-back and it's wrong imo. I'll explain shortly about the press. But to further the point of some of us posting past UCONN records - it has to be done sometimes. Because some posters want to bury their heads in the sand regarding these facts like the poster bostonbay who recently said the last 4 years have been "less than stellar." And went on further to say to para "UCONN didn't have any big wins." Two years of 36-1 and within those numbers yet we didn't have any big wins????? Maybe you and/or the other posters sometimes need to be reminded of this? Otherwise how can anyone say that about 36-1 teams? So while you imply "please don't show those stats" - I on the other hand encourage posters to remind others of these stats.

Now in regards to the press- keep in mind it's not one thing-- it's a multitude of factors combined.
1-- when you press you have a risk of foul trouble. UCONN has three legit A/A's that they can't risk sitting on the bench during long stretches vs good teams. There is too big of a dropoff when they are replaced. In big games you need them to play 36-40 minutes. Too many chances for touch fouls and bad refs when you press. Some teams vs other teams it can work but there are big limitations. More on that.

2-- Good teams are going to scout the press. If they can't get the ball in the middle at times, then they have other places to look. For example, Dangerfield is too short. When you press she has to cover a wide range of area or she traps. When she traps it is easier to see the floor over her and throw over her. And when you need a pass - if she isn't trapping - then it's easy for a big to be an easy safety valve (throw it high enough she can't get to it.). In the press you need at least 4 players to create havoc (unless you are pressing to slow down the game). It doesn't sound like though you are talking of slowing down the game using a press.

3-- Anna and Kyla are slow for pressing too. I expect Anna year over year to improve with both quickness in some manner and awareness. Anna isn't bad but still she is slow. Add that to Danger being short - you don't have near the press you think you have.

4-- For those of you who don't think much of Kyla-- it means then you have just 6 players on the press. So the whole season UCONN is supposed to be practicing pressure for a team with a 6 player capable press vs the good teams? There isn't enough pressing type players to be a major pressing team. And if you use Molly Bent then as i mentioned above you have a huge dropoff if you're taking out one of your guards. Maybe you can go with all 3 guards of CD, CW and MB - but then you are going very small.

5--- For those of you that have followed men's basketball a long time - I'll ask you to try to remember the NCAA Tourney game in which UCONN beat Washington by a buzzer beater from Rip Hamilton in 1998. You can google and pull an article and it will explain how Washington got a lot of points in the 1st half in the paint. Further you can read how it was actually UCONN that got worn down when they thought they could wear the bigger team down. Calhoun even remarked afterwards that it appeared his team was worn down. Meaning even though you are faster and quicker doesn't mean you are going to wear down the bigger team. Further, by opening the floor, you are also allowing that team to expose you for easy baskets if they can use their size effectively against your press. Yet UCONN has flaws as I've mentioned above using pressure. With only 6 players you are more likely to wear down. You give too much of an opportunity for teams to get easy baskets also because of the flaws I've mentioned. IMO its better to force the big teams to take outside shots.

6-- Why do you think UCONN gets the number 1 ranked H/S recruits so often? Why do you think UCONN gets the number 1 ranked H/S recruits so often? Why do you think UCONN gets the number 1 ranked H/S recruits so often? I repeated the question several times to make a point. The offense from UCONN is beautiful. The coach preaches it hardline too. Now go and look back at the 2011-2012 game between UCONN and Baylor. At halftime Geno was interviewed and asked his thoughts of the game and to paraphrase he said the team that can execute offensively the best would win. When Kim came back from the tunnel and was asked her thoughts while she was told of Geno's comments - basically to paraphrase she didn't agree and thought the game would be won defensively. They have different philosophies. It seems yours is more in-line with Kim's regarding how you want to play Aubrey and you mentioned previously you want more pressing. Yet I think Geno's teams over the next 5 years will be better than Kim's and has been in the past 5. He values the flow of offense -- A LOT.

While both coaches are right to some extent-- imo more of the number 1 recruits sees Geno's super offensive flow. You on the other hand are highlighting "Aubrey Griffin." IMO you and posters like mick and bostonbay are sold out too much on defense and athletes, and have little appreciation for passing, shooting and picks. I think your philosophy is all wrong over the long haul of several years. A great offensive player has an advantage over the great defender. As a fundamental in basketball called the triple-threat on offense (face the basket and are a threat to pass, shoot or dribble) -- Aubrey can't shoot. Her passing off the dribble is suspect. Yet you are highlighting change our style, change the past way this team has been successful because YOU think a press can be better. Some years it can be. VS crummy teams -- sure. But if you can't do it well vs the good teams why should Aubrey get a lot of minutes rather than some minutes?

Next year definitely press. More elite players. More elite upperclassmen. More team quickness. More "quality" team size. Losing one star player to foul trouble not as big of a deal vs.this year.

Darn, I'm disappointed, I was looking for an apology letter from you!
Now, I challenge you to list the games we've played over the last 3 seasons against athletic, physical, and talented teams and tell me how many of those games did we dominate? We physically demoralized Tennessee! Their centers were totally outplayed! It looked like a proverbial rotweiler shaking a raggedy ann doll in its mouth!
Thursday night is what big-time college basketball looks like. It's not the Mona Lisa, it's more like a Jackson Pollock. We established an 18 point lead shooting 31%. That's what gets NCs. Geno knows that. He mentioned NC in his post game interview on the floor. He knows that pretty stuff doesn't win NCs.
Do you still want to coddle Aubrey this season or do you want to "unleash" her?
Did you see how effective those traps were? Beautiful!! Poor Crystal. They were able to pass right over her. NOT!!!!!!
Most of the BY was disappointed with the shooting %. I was off my seat cheering! That team Thursday night can compete with anybody! Playing against that kind of effort hurts! It's not fun! What if our opponents can expect that versus a bunch of finesse?
Close your eyes and envision the length and athleticism of Aubrey on Lauren Cox. Enjoy that image! Out

 

[hoophuskee]

Darn, I'm disappointed, I was looking for an apology letter from you!
Now, I challenge you to list the games we've played over the last 3 seasons against athletic, physical, and talented teams and tell me how many of those games did we dominate? We physically demoralized Tennessee! Their centers were totally outplayed! It looked like a proverbial rotweiler shaking a raggedy ann doll in its mouth!
Thursday night is what big-time college basketball looks like. It's not the Mona Lisa, it's more like a Jackson Pollock. We established an 18 point lead shooting 31%. That's what gets NCs. Geno knows that. He mentioned NC in his post game interview on the floor. He knows that pretty stuff doesn't win NCs.
Do you still want to coddle Aubrey this season or do you want to "unleash" her?
Did you see how effective those traps were? Beautiful!! Poor Crystal. They were able to pass right over her. NOT!!!!!!
Most of the BY was disappointed with the shooting %. I was off my seat cheering! That team Thursday night can compete with anybody! Playing against that kind of effort hurts! It's not fun! What if our opponents can expect that versus a bunch of finesse?
Close your eyes and envision the length and athleticism of Aubrey on Lauren Cox. Enjoy that image! Out

Are you serious???? huh?????????? I didn't reply to you because I didn't want to rub it in. In addition, I don't think the mods want us to go back-and-forth. If I recall somewhere there were some rules about posters dominating a thread and arguing back-and-forth a lot. I just thought I won and still did and just didn't bother to reply any more.

***If the mods are okay with our back-and-forth I'll go a few more back-and-forths with you - if one of them can reply. Otherwise again I'll refrain other than the below. I see that you want to continue.

1--- You said you want them pressing, correct? Did you see the 1st half today? (I missed the 2nd half other than catch glimpses of our shooting). The score was 50-21 at halftime and they only pressed when AG was in the game. And this was vs one of the worst teams in the league. You think we're going to full court press vs SC and Oregon? Maybe if we are behind or in desperation or press to slow them down but not to trap --I think.

2--- I said at best Aubrey is at best 5th best player on the team. Are you arguing with me that she is actually 4th? Because you don't think she is better than CD, MW or CW, do you?

3-- Did you listen to the game today? What did Meg say about the press? She said you should be able to get a layup off the press. OFC if you have a great defense, your expectation is to disrupt and cause chaos (though some presses slow the game down, but that wasn't what you appeared to be saying- I pointed that out previously). The point is-- there is a huge risk when you press vs good teams. You think that is wrong?

4-- And in 1st half when they were pressing full court - they were struggling getting the ball in and just threw the ball high vs the defender Danger was guarding.

5-- And it's as I said danger and Anna and Kyla aren't good on the press. So I indicated you need the personnel to press and these players aren't very good at it. Why do you think to start the game UCONN didn't press one of the worst teams in the league? Why do you think they didn't press when Anna came in and only pressed when Aubrey came in during the 1st half? Because of personnel. You had replied to me before that you can name many, many teams that pressed. But that type of thinking completely disregards personnel. As I said before we'll see how much pressure we perform for a full game / when AUbrey is on the bench.

We can press the crummy teams and the teams with poor guard play. But pressing is a risk vs good teams.. It's what Meg said today - "You should be bale to get a layup vs the press." This is why you see so few teams do it-- and why you rarely see it done with teams with good guard play. And good guard play with "size" even at other positions that can pass is lethal.

6-- As I said you are fan of grinding. IMO Geno isn't. He wants to win as well all do but he wants to see beauty in offense. I enjoyed the win. I don't believe for 1 second though that UCONN could continue to recruit so amazing all these years getting players like Dt, Bird, Maya, and Stewart and overall all the quantity of elite recruits playing to the style you enjoy more. You would have a short window and that's it. You said it best - most on the BY were disappointed with the shooting. I'm sure the players were also disappointed in that part of their game. IMO the elite recruits hate the grinding style you love to see. Anyhow -- I love fastbreak beautiful offensive basketball (or press and run fastbreaks) and imo so do the elite recruits. After a time I would stop watching lousy offensive basketball. You seem fine with it-- okay. I'm fine with the win but expecting more offense now from the Tenn game and in the future.
**I am not a fan of "just"-"win-basketball." The beauty of Geno Auriemma and his overall his teams is the wonderous offense they run and he demands. Some games can't be helped. SOme games will be low scoring. But overall he keeps getting the number 1 recruits more of his games will be of high scoring rather than 61-45.

 

[Biff]

I think that is enough backs and forths to satisfy this subject for now.