This and That

[FanFromMaine]

1. The basketball rules committee should just erase the palming restriction given the present state of play. Watching the UCLA - OSU replay, Destiny Slocum was the perpetrator that caught my eye but so many others carry all the time. I understand that it does make for "wow" moves just like the men. But this is where women's basketball, as a men's imitator, loses out in the long run in my humble opinion.

2. Holly Warlick was color commentator on the UCF - USF game this week. She was somewhat laconic but better than others such as Debbie Antonelli on the UCLA game. She was competent and spoke to the action on the floor which is refreshing.

 

[WestCoast]

1. The basketball rules committee should just erase the palming restriction given the present state of play. Watching the UCLA - OSU replay, Destiny Slocum was the perpetrator that caught my eye but so many others carry all the time. I understand that it does make for "wow" moves just like the men. But this is where women's basketball, as a men's imitator, loses out in the long run in my humble opinion.

2. Holly Warlick was color commentator on the UCF - USF game this week. She was somewhat laconic but better than others such as Debbie Antonelli on the UCLA game. She was competent and spoke to the action on the floor which is refreshing.

Looking for a women's player who palms consistently with her hesitation move? Look no further than Ionescu. Rarely called in PAC-12 play.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I seem to recall Magic Johnson palming the ball every time he touched it, dating back to the 80s. Nothing new to see here.

 

[WestCoast]

If the officials rarely call palming in women's collegiate basketball, it makes sense for.the top point guards to use the palming/hesitation move to their advantage. And they do...

 

[Centerstream]

Palming and Carrying the ball seems to be pretty common in WBB nowadays.
The complete disregard for basic rules by referees and coaches is the main reason that I stopped watching all men's basketball many, many years ago.
Another "This and that" that I want to throw out.
Either raise the basket to 12 or 13 feet for men's Olympic, Professional and Collegiate teams or change the scoring: any shot that is released in a downward motion (dunks) from within 2 feet of the rim is only worth 1 point, all other scoring remains the same. Bottom line, don't ban dunking just don't score it like an actual shot.
Dr. Naismith invented the game with the intent that a player scores by lobbing the ball into the basket and he probably never envisioned a 6foot tall man being able to dunk, which seems commonplace nowadays.

 

[WestCoast]

Palming and Carrying the ball seems to be pretty common in WBB nowadays.
The complete disregard for basic rules by referees and coaches is the main reason that I stopped watching all men's basketball many, many years ago.
Another "This and that" that I want to throw out.
Either raise the basket to 12 or 13 feet for men's Olympic, Professional and Collegiate teams or change the scoring: any shot that is released in a downward motion (dunks) from within 2 feet of the rim is only worth 1 point, all other scoring remains the same. Bottom line, don't ban dunking just don't score it like an actual shot.
Dr. Naismith invented the game with the intent that a player scores by lobbing the ball into the basket and he probably never envisioned a 6foot tall man being able to dunk, which seems commonplace nowadays.

A field goal from within the arc is worth two points, dunk or otherwise. Can't support a dunk only being worth one point.

 

[nwhoopfan]

@Centerstream did we just enter a time warp? I seem to recall dunking was illegal for a while. Looked it up, was banned in the NCAA from '67-'76 and was known as the "Lew Alcindor rule." Dunking has been commonplace for a long, long, long time.

edit--it won't happen, but if it was up to me and something was changed, I'd get rid of the 3 point shot... or move it to like 28' or something. The game has evolved to be way too dependent on it. It rewards mediocre shooting. Hitting 33% on 3's is the same as 50% on 2's as far as scoring goes.

 

[Mulder]

If the officials rarely call palming in women's collegiate basketball, it makes sense for.the top point guards to use the palming/hesitation move to their advantage. And they do...

Right.

It's more of a 'hesitation move' than a palm. There are enough whistles that slow up the game.
No need for a call there.

 

[Centerstream]

@Centerstream did we just enter a time warp? I seem to recall dunking was illegal for a while. Looked it up, was banned in the NCAA from '67-'76 and was known as the "Lew Alcindor rule." Dunking has been commonplace for a long, long, long time.

edit--it won't happen, but if it was up to me and something was changed, I'd get rid of the 3 point shot... or move it to like 28' or something. The game has evolved to be way too dependent on it. It rewards mediocre shooting. Hitting 33% on 3's is the same as 50% on 2's as far as scoring goes.

I seem to recall when a team might have 1 or possibly 2 players that could dunk, not having a team where virtually everyone can dunk.
And you are entitled to your opinion. That is why I prefer WBB, you have to actually shoot the ball in order to score, not see how high a guy can jump to score. And BTW, I don't mind seeing a women dunk but only because it is not commonplace.

 

[WestCoast]

I seem to recall when a team might have 1 or possibly 2 players that could dunk, not having a team where virtually everyone can dunk.
And you are entitled to your opinion. That is why I prefer WBB, you have to actually shoot the ball in order to score, not see how high a guy can jump to score. And BTW, I don't mind seeing a women dunk but only because it is not commonplace.

Having a player on a college women's team who can dunk is becoming increasingly more common with the increased size and athleticism that has been emerged over the past decade. Stanford has a 6'1" player in Belibi who dunks with relative ease. UConn has at least two players who can dunk. Baylor has Smith at 6'2" who is high riser. Oregon State has three players who can dunk.

Watching an athletic women's college basketball team warm up these days is a treat. Keep the dunk legal and worth two points. It is a feat that fans can appreciate even if they never never dunked before.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Having a player on a college women's team who can dunk is becoming increasingly more common with the increased size and athleticism that has been emerged over the past decade. Stanford has a 6'1" player in Belibi who dunks with relative ease. UConn has at least two players who can dunk. Baylor has Smith at 6'2" who is high riser. Oregon State has three players who can dunk.

None of these women who can dunk are doing it in games though. It's a lot different doing it unguarded. I would say they aren't functional dunkers.

I seem to recall when a team might have 1 or possibly 2 players that could dunk, not having a team where virtually everyone can dunk.

The 50s or 60s? How far are you going back? By the 80s at the latest most players on a men's college team could dunk.

 

[WestCoast]

None of these women who can dunk are doing it in games though. It's a lot different doing it unguarded. I would say they aren't functional dunkers.



The 50s or 60s? How far are you going back? By the 80s at the latest most players on a men's college team could dunk.

True. Belibi tried it in a game this year. Monique Billings tried it in a game two years ago for UCLA. Zykera Rice, a player from Gonzaga, tried to throw down last year. All three without success, but those attempts will undoubtedly prompt other females to try it themselves in a game. For fans of the WBB game, that is a good thing.

 

[Centerstream]

Having a player on a college women's team who can dunk is becoming increasingly more common with the increased size and athleticism that has been emerged over the past decade. Stanford has a 6'1" player in Belibi who dunks with relative ease. UConn has at least two players who can dunk. Baylor has Smith at 6'2" who is high riser. Oregon State has three players who can dunk.

Watching an athletic women's college basketball team warm up these days is a treat. Keep the dunk legal and worth two points. It is a feat that fans can appreciate even if they never never dunked before.

My scoring change idea was for the men's game only.
I have yet to see a college WBB game where someone has dunked during a game. I guess it may have happened but I obviously didn't see that game.
I remember a game (against SMU maybe?) where it seemed like Stewie was going to dunk, but it didn't happen.

 

[FanFromMaine]

I seem to recall Magic Johnson palming the ball every time he touched it, dating back to the 80s. Nothing new to see here.

But the question here is do you think it is good for the women's game?

As someone else said above, I stopped watching the men's game when palming and dunking became the signature moves. And I agree that, when the game becomes a three point contest, it loses fluidity. I have hope that the European influence on the game succeeds as it did in hockey: more emphasis on skating and less on muscling in the crease. But there are no easy answers because the athletic gracefulness of players is very compelling to watch.

PS - Larry Bird played in the 80's and hardly ever dunked. That's what made the Larry - Magic contests in the pros so compelling for me. They both won with very different skill sets.

PPS - Bob Cousy had hands the size of catchers mitts and arms that almost reached reached his knees which helped make his passes work without palming. Perhaps before your time.

PPPS - [ ]

 

[nwhoopfan]

But the question here is do you think it is good for the women's game?

Good question. I guess it depends on how egregious it is. Seems like the rules about traveling have gotten a lot more liberal as the years have gone by. I don't know if you even can travel in the NBA anymore. Harden gets about 8 steps on his step back 3's. It's not that bad, but it's trickled down to college men's and women's. The Euro step almost always looks like traveling to me, but maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. Refs seem to give a lot of leeway setting up 3 point attempts, but sometimes are really picky on drives. I don't understand why the inconsistency. And they allow a bunch of bunny hops on post ups sometimes too (that really isn't what you asked me about; I guess the point is refs have more or less been ignoring the rules as they see fit for quite a while).

 

[Rixxx]

But the question here is do you think it is good for the women's game?

As someone else said above, I stopped watching the men's game when palming and dunking became the signature moves. And I agree that, when the game becomes a three point contest, it loses fluidity. I have hope that the European influence on the game succeeds as it did in hockey: more emphasis on skating and less on muscling in the crease. But there are no easy answers because the athletic gracefulness of players is very compelling to watch.

PS - Larry Bird played in the 80's and hardly ever dunked. That's what made the Larry - Magic contests in the pros so compelling for me. They both won with very different skill sets.

PPS - Bob Cousy had hands the size of catchers mitts and arms that almost reached reached his knees which helped make his passes work without palming. Perhaps before your time.

PPPS - [ ]

Cousy had a great running mate in Bill Sharman.

 

[FanFromMaine]

Good question. I guess it depends on how egregious it is. Seems like the rules about traveling have gotten a lot more liberal as the years have gone by. I don't know if you even can travel in the NBA anymore. Harden gets about 8 steps on his step back 3's. It's not that bad, but it's trickled down to college men's and women's. The Euro step almost always looks like traveling to me, but maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. Refs seem to give a lot of leeway setting up 3 point attempts, but sometimes are really picky on drives. I don't understand why the inconsistency. And they allow a bunch of bunny hops on post ups sometimes too (that really isn't what you asked me about; I guess the point is refs have more or less been ignoring the rules as they see fit for quite a while).

All quite relevant. I have to assume that the refs too want a game that attracts the most attention.

The upshot for me is this: could woman’s basketball have more success in general by creating a different game than the men’s as women’s tennis has done?

We see the limitations within which the WNBA exists. It appears that a “mini-me” version of the men’s game does not command much attention. Why watch people who are less athletic is what I hear when I tell friends about my interest in wbb.

Could a more movement focused game where a semblance of rules are enforced be a better draw in the long run?

 

[FanFromMaine]

Cousy had a great running mate in Bill Sharman.

Agreed. But what makes you say that? I’m simply curious.

 

[WestCoast]

Cousy had a great running mate in Bill Sharman.

A seemingly random thought.....

 

[Centerstream]

Cousy had a great running mate in Bill Sharman.

Agreed. But what makes you say that? I’m simply curious.

A seemingly random thought.....

Well, the thread title is "This and That", so...

 

[Centerstream]

If the officials rarely call palming in women's collegiate basketball, it makes sense for.the top point guards to use the palming/hesitation move to their advantage. And they do...

I can't believe that HS and AAU (and earlier?) coaches that are actually teaching kids how to play competitively would even allow them to handle the ball in this manner. I know when I played HS bball, we were not allowed to do it because we weren't taught how to do it. And we certainly didn't do it in any Boy's Club youth league prior to HS.
Oh well, that was long, long ago, in a galaxy...