Things are A Changin’

[LoboDays]

It wasn’t that many weeks ago when there was a debate here about whether UCONN’s 2nd string would be a top 10 team. Now, we have the coach saying he doesn’t like his team without Paige on the floor. We have people here saying the only way we win a game without Paige is if we hold the opponent to under 40 points. Talk about the sky falling….

I’ve expanded Happy Hour today so I’m looking at the bright side of things. I hope Paige’s injury is nothing and she’s back in the lineup next game. But, if she misses a couple, maybe it will help this team. They wont be able to watch the Paige show. They will need to play hard and play together. Maybe it’s what some of them need to get back to where they were last season..

 

[TCC Kid]

It wasn’t that many weeks ago when there was a debate here about whether UCONN’s 2nd string would be a top 10 team. Now, we have the coach saying he doesn’t like his team without Paige on the floor. We have people here saying the only way we win a game without Paige is if we hold the opponent to under 40 points. Talk about the sky falling….

I’ve expanded Happy Hour today so I’m looking at the bright side of things. I hope Paige’s injury is nothing and she’s back in the lineup next game. But, if she misses a couple, maybe it will help this team. They wont be able to watch the Paige show. They will need to play hard and play together. Maybe it’s what some of them need to get back to where they were last season..

That secondn string is better than most first stings---is an old tired sermon that is repeated about every 2 years certainly with a good recruiting class. The truth almost always comes before the 4th game, possibly earlier if Uconn meets a top 5 during those early games. It is what good fans do, they love the kids they get, believe they will be great, hope they will win it all---we call them UConn Women's BB Fans..

 

[LoboDays]

That secondn string is better than most first stings---is an old tired sermon that is repeated about every 2 years certainly with a good recruiting class. The truth almost always comes before the 4th game, possibly earlier if Uconn meets a top 5 during those early games. It is what good fans do, they love the kids they get, believe they will be great, hope they will win it all---we call them UConn Women's BB Fans..

 

[Cuango]

The truth is that UConn’s second five would be a pretty good team. Don’t forget, if they were the featured starters, they would be getting much more focused coaching from early summer all the way to opening game and throughput the season. If you think the best five out of Nika, Azzi, Aubrey, Mir, Caroline, Dorka/Amari/Piath would not be a good team after a full preseason of coaching by the UConn coaching staff as starters, then I don’t know what to tell you! Would they win a championship? I think they could certainly be in the mix for the Big East!

 

[willtalk]

The fact that the second stringers are perceived to not get the same level of coaching as the starters is a good reason for many players not to commit to UConn if they believe they will not start. I think that might be the " catch 22" that becomes a self fullfilling prophesy that hurts the depth of the team. If there is any doubt they will get starters time they might not commit and if they still commit and don;t get the time they will think about transferring.

 

[JoePgh]

When people say that UConn's bench would be (or would have been) a Top 10 team, you have to evaluate that claim in the following hypothetical context:

What if Paige, Christyn, Evina, Aaliyah, and Liv were (for whatever horrible reason) not at UConn at all this year, and were not here during the summer or fall either? Then the team would have consisted of the remaining 9 players (let's assume that Saylor would still be here). Could that short-handed team of 9 players have been a ranked team if Geno and the coaches had worked solely with them during the summer and fall?

You could then imagine a starting lineup of Dorka, Aubrey, Caroline, Nika, and Azzi. The bench would be Piath, Amari, Mir, and Saylor. If Aubrey and Azzi went down with injuries, then probably Piath and Mir (or Saylor) would get their minutes.

I don't think that would be a Top 10 team, but I think it would be ranked (maybe about 15th). Undoubtedly the bench players would develop faster, but their mistakes would cost games. Meanwhile, Caroline and Nika (playing 35 minutes per game) would get over their butterflies in a big hurry and would be productive for the entire year. It would win the Big East (possibly would be undefeated in conference), and several starters would be on the all-conference first team.

It would perform at an entirely different level than the same players would now perform as bench players in the real world, where they do not get the attention either in games or in practice that the major players in today's rotation are getting.

 

[Papa33]

The fact that the second stringers are perceived to not get the same level of coaching as the starters is a good reason for many players not to commit to UConn if they believe they will not start. I think that might be the " catch 22" that becomes a self fullfilling prophesy that hurts the depth of the team. If there is any doubt they will get starters time they might not commit and if they still commit and don;t get the time they will think about transferring.

The "fact" that some players perceive that they won't get full coaching attention is a reason they don't select UConn? Where did you find that fact? And that fact adversely affects UConn recruiting more than it does other teams?

 

[LoboDays]

Back to reality. This is a very talented team. As deep as it has ever been. If there is an issue, it’s how this talent has been used. I have no idea what goes on in practices but it’s a fact that some very talented players get little or no playing time. The argument that they are not ready may hold some water but if you don’t get them on the floor and injuries force a more expansive mindset about who needs to contribute to the success of this team…..one can wonder why so many starters remain in the game after the result has already been decided. Nothing can replace actual game experience.

 

[BobbyJ]

The fact that the second stringers are perceived to not get the same level of coaching as the starters is a good reason for many players not to commit to UConn if they believe they will not start. I think that might be the " catch 22" that becomes a self fullfilling prophesy that hurts the depth of the team. If there is any doubt they will get starters time they might not commit and if they still commit and don;t get the time they will think about transferring.

Perceived by who? You went off the rails when you stated that a perception was a fact. And no credible, competent coaching staff gives less coaching to non-starters. That would be idiotic and self defeating.

 

[Longtime fan]

The truth is that UConn’s second five would be a pretty good team. Don’t forget, if they were the featured starters, they would be getting much more focused coaching from early summer all the way to opening game and throughput the season. If you think the best five out of Nika, Azzi, Aubrey, Mir, Caroline, Dorka/Amari/Piath would not be a good team after a full preseason of coaching by the UConn coaching staff as starters, then I don’t know what to tell you! Would they win a championship? I think they could certainly be in the mix for the Big East!

So who is the second five now? Piath, Mir, Dorka and who? Griffin ( NA): Azzi ( NA); DeBerry (NA?); I guess Caroline for the moment. Not sure we have a full B team.

 

[Cuango]

The fact that the second stringers are perceived to not get the same level of coaching as the starters is a good reason for many players not to commit to UConn if they believe they will not start. I think that might be the " catch 22" that becomes a self fullfilling prophesy that hurts the depth of the team. If there is any doubt they will get starters time they might not commit and if they still commit and don;t get the time they will think about

In virtually every sport starters get more attention, reps, and more individually focused coaching. That doesn’t mean the others are ignored. Have you not heard about back-up quarterbacks getting more reps when the first string quarterback is injured? Why does this happen? Because they are starting! Uh, not sure why your name is at the top of my response? Oh well, it’s a small thing. Peace and love!

 

[CL82]

The fact that the second stringers are perceived to not get the same level of coaching as the starters is a good reason for many players not to commit to UConn if they believe they will not start. I think that might be the " catch 22" that becomes a self fullfilling prophesy that hurts the depth of the team. If there is any doubt they will get starters time they might not commit and if they still commit and don;t get the time they will think about transferring.

So it probably makes sense to point out that if you talk to, not the second string, but the walk on‘s, one of the things they say consistently is that they are held to the same standards as the starters. Everyone has to get things correct. Auriemma will stick with things until that happens. Just an FYI.

What I took as the message of the poster you referred to. Is that if the second string where the starters then all the schemes would revolve around their strengths. What Geno Auriemma does an exceptional job at is putting people into situations in which they can succeed.

 

[LoboDays]

What Geno Auriemma does an exceptional job at is putting people into situations in which they can succeed.

When the starters are in the game during garbage time, who succeeds? Only bad things can happen as we have painfully learned. And the players who practice hard everyday hoping for a few minutes of game time wonder about their plight.

 

[Zinethar]

Same ole comments - why do the starters play so many minutes. There have been only 6 games so far this season. Before the non-starters get significant minutes that starters need to gel and work the kinks out of their game. Read the posts - people are not happy because the starters still are not yet where Geno (and also us) want them to be. Once Geno feels the starters have it then he can work more players in one at a time into the rotation to learn to play with the starters. It will happen. Remember patience? it helps.

 

[TeamFirst!]

The "B" team would be around #22 in the rankings. Maybe as high as 15th. They have a decent center in Dorka and some scoring talent as well as overall good defensive chops.

 

[cbraarj]

This team is at the same level it was last year. They all stand around looking for Paige except Williams in the half court offense. If you say you're coming back for unfinished business ( Evina ) then play like you are! She's very capable of it. They don't have an inside game or a bench and against the better teams that will stop them from winning a NC unless it changes!

 

[CL82]

When the starters are in the game during garbage time, who succeeds? Only bad things can happen as we have painfully learned. And the players who practice hard everyday hoping for a few minutes of game time wonder about their plight.

Well, first you have to define garbage time. For example when exactly was garbage time for you at the Notre Dame game. How long would it take a top 25 team to make up a double digit deficit? Had Notre Dame pulled their starters and put in their bench, indicating that they were concerned game?

As to what is being learned in this yet to be defined “garbage time“, I would say we get to see each players reaction to gametime conditions. Keep in mind that if we lack in adequate point guard, then nothing is learned, right?

As other people have pointed out to you, multiple times, Paige wasn’t doing anything particularly demanding when the incident occurred. If it is physically unsafe for her to bring the ball up at walking speed, should she ever be playing basketball at any time? Should any of the players?

All that said, you’ve made your point, mini on the board disagree with you. Perhaps it’s time to leave it at that?

 

[GoUconn7961]

I guess if a lot of people are fed up with Geno, his coaching style, the minutes the newbies get then there's a ton of other teams to root for. I'll stick with UConn good or bad. I think Geno's players like him or they'd go elsewhere, and I doubt any old players would come back. But, that's just me. We all like what we like, and want what we want whether or not it's in our own best interest.

 

[willtalk]

Many of you certainly have misunderstood my post in respect to the system that Geno runs. I was only infering that things emphasised in a system often comes at a cost or trade off. The thing is evaluating that tradeoff rationally. As I said Geno runs a system that has been very successful and he has adapted and adjusted it to suit changes in WCBB. Taking in transfers being one of the things he has changed.

The think is that the WCBB lanscape has changed drastically with the new transfer rules and it might require Geno to once again adapt. This time it would be in respect to his system of playing time for subs. Just being on the UConn team with Geno as the coach seems ot have lost its attraction to many players. They will not be happy to just ride the bench.

 

[Zanzman]

Many of you certainly have misunderstood my post in respect to the system that Geno runs. I was only infering that things emphasised in a system often comes at a cost or trade off. The thing is evaluating that tradeoff rationally. As I said Geno runs a system that has been very successful and he has adapted and adjusted it to suit changes in WCBB. Taking in transfers being one of the things he has changed.

The think is that the WCBB lanscape has changed drastically with the new transfer rules and it might require Geno to once again adapt. This time it would be in respect to his system of playing time for subs. Just being on the UConn team with Geno as the coach seems ot have lost its attraction to many players. They will not be happy to just ride the bench.

Why talking do boldly

 

[LCConnFan]

Back to reality. This is a very talented team. As deep as it has ever been. If there is an issue, it’s how this talent has been used. I have no idea what goes on in practices but it’s a fact that some very talented players get little or no playing time. The argument that they are not ready may hold some water but if you don’t get them on the floor and injuries force a more expansive mindset about who needs to contribute to the success of this team…..one can wonder why so many starters remain in the game after the result has already been decided. Nothing can replace actual game experience.

That (above) is the one big flaw of your posting! Geno knows why, yet we second guess. When they're winning he's praised, and when we see something (for whatever reason) we don't like, he's admonished!

 

[Postie]

It is a very difficult decision for a high school junior or senior when they get a letter from UConn offering them a scholarship to join the premier program in the country.To get that offer from UCONN you have to be a elite player.If it turns out you’re not in the eight man rotation you’re going to sit and sit.Sometimes it is better to go elsewhere.Lexi Gordon was never in the rotation so she transferred and now starts at Duke.Mikayla Coombs played some.She now starts at Georgia.Geno just a rolls the ball out there and may the best five win.

 

[CocoHusky]

Many of you certainly have misunderstood my post in respect to the system that Geno runs. I was only infering that things emphasised in a system often comes at a cost or trade off. The thing is evaluating that tradeoff rationally. As I said Geno runs a system that has been very successful and he has adapted and adjusted it to suit changes in WCBB. Taking in transfers being one of the things he has changed.

The think is that the WCBB lanscape has changed drastically with the new transfer rules and it might require Geno to once again adapt. This time it would be in respect to his system of playing time for subs. Just being on the UConn team with Geno as the coach seems ot have lost its attraction to many players. They will not be happy to just ride the bench.

I don't believe this to be the case. UCONN remains an attractive place to play as measured by the recent recruiting successes. What has changed is simply social media and the willingness of quality players to remain happy as contributing bench players. Two specific examples are Kiah Stokes and Saylor and the clear demarcation point is with the class of 2013. Kia Stokes was a McDonalds AA player who was surpassed as a sophomore by freshman Morgan Tuck in the rotation and replaced in the starting lineup when she was a Junior. Kia Stokes stuck it out, graduated and was a significant contributor her junior and senior seasons. Saylor (and Sadie Edwards) chose to leave after a few games. One of the significant differences is that Kiah Stokes had to wait until Christmas break every year when she went home to have people bend her ear about how happy she might be elsewhere. For Saylor that bug of unhappiness in her ear might have been happening in near real time on social media. All kids want to play and the AA didn't get to be AA by playing 2nd fiddle so I don't blame them. The challenge as I see it going forward for Geno (all coaches really) is to find contributors from among the non-AA that are willing to stay and get better and contribute. Any player willing to have a permanent seat at the end of the bench is fine but you only need one or two of those each year to fill out the rosters. The one thing that will not change for UCONN however is Geno will not be "giving" out playing time. Playing time will be earned as long as he's the coach.

 

[ConwayGmck]

Perceived by who? You went off the rails when you stated that a perception was a fact. And no credible, competent coaching staff gives less coaching to non-starters. That would be idiotic and self defeating.

I don't think you interpret well here: willtalk did NOT state that a perception was a fact. He stated that it was a fact that there is a perception to begin with. And he is proven correct by the previous post above his by Cuango, who declaratively stated that "Don’t forget, if they were the featured starters, they would be getting much more focused coaching from early summer all the way to opening game and throughput the season".

That is a straight-forward implication that since they are NOT "featured starters", they would NOT be getting "much more focused coaching". That seems to me to be a perception of Cuango's at least, and therefore Cuango's stated perception is pretty factual based up on his own admittance of it here in this thread.

Therefore, willtalk's opinion that there is fact of perception by at least one poster here, seems on point........

 

[BobbyJ]

I don't think you interpret well here: willtalk did NOT state that a perception was a fact. He stated that it was a fact that there is a perception to begin with. And he is proven correct by the previous post above his by Cuango, who declaratively stated that "Don’t forget, if they were the featured starters, they would be getting much more focused coaching from early summer all the way to opening game and throughput the season".

That is a straight-forward implication that since they are NOT "featured starters", they would NOT be getting "much more focused coaching". That seems to me to be a perception of Cuango's at least, and therefore Cuango's stated perception is pretty factual based up on his own admittance of it here in this thread.

Therefore, willtalk's opinion that there is fact of perception by at least one poster here, seems on point........

Because Cuango may believe his statement does not make it a fact just because he believes it. But a perception is not a fact, it's just a perception. It may be a fact that Cuango has a perception, but that does not make his perception a fact. And Willtalk repeated it as if the statement was a fact, which of course it isn't.

 

[CL82]

Many of you certainly have misunderstood my post in respect to the system that Geno runs. I was only infering that things emphasised in a system often comes at a cost or trade off. The thing is evaluating that tradeoff rationally. As I said Geno runs a system that has been very successful and he has adapted and adjusted it to suit changes in WCBB. Taking in transfers being one of the things he has changed.

The think is that the WCBB lanscape has changed drastically with the new transfer rules and it might require Geno to once again adapt. This time it would be in respect to his system of playing time for subs. Just being on the UConn team with Geno as the coach seems ot have lost its attraction to many players. They will not be happy to just ride the bench.

Well since you posted in bold, I am convinced.

 

[Stymie]

The fact that the second stringers are perceived to not get the same level of coaching as the starters is a good reason for many players not to commit to UConn if they believe they will not start. I think that might be the " catch 22" that becomes a self fullfilling prophesy that hurts the depth of the team. If there is any doubt they will get starters time they might not commit and if they still commit and don;t get the time they will think about transferring.

I’ve never heard that non starters receive a lower level of coaching than starters.
I also find this difficult to believe.

 

[meyers7]

Just being on the UConn team with Geno as the coach seems ot have lost its attraction to many players. They will not be happy to just ride the bench.

Why do you say that?

 

[willie99]

Geno will always be Geno, and he will never stop pushing buttons

The team is a National Title favorite with Paige, and could potentially be molded into a National Title contender without Paige

Let's hope for the best, and let's hope Geno never stops pushing buttons

 

[hjoerring]

Many of you certainly have misunderstood my post in respect to the system that Geno runs. I was only infering that things emphasised in a system often comes at a cost or trade off. The thing is evaluating that tradeoff rationally. As I said Geno runs a system that has been very successful and he has adapted and adjusted it to suit changes in WCBB. Taking in transfers being one of the things he has changed.

The think is that the WCBB lanscape has changed drastically with the new transfer rules and it might require Geno to once again adapt. This time it would be in respect to his system of playing time for subs. Just being on the UConn team with Geno as the coach seems ot have lost its attraction to many players. They will not be happy to just ride the bench.

These are indictments and if you are to be taken seriously you must provide evidences and reasoning so we can follow your remarks. For ex.: you say or implies that Geno changes his approach only to say he doesn't. You talked about him changing his system when he takes in transfer. Really. Are the 2 related? He has certainly changed his practice (sometime back) concerning transfers, but has he changed his system to accommodate them? And your incitement about transfer rules, playing time for "subs" is confusing. It is certainly easier (as it should in the view here) for players to leave a Program. And they might very well end up at a school where the get to start and play all they want; but, this is not always a guarantee. And I suspect the more ethically concerned coaches out there will not be playing a player top keep them from leaving. Such practices have a way of coming back to haunt and even destroy a Program. As to this current Uconn roster how many of the players have voiced the ambition of being a WNBA player? We act as if all of them have voiced such views. Has Liv given any hint about such a career? And lastly, what do you mean by
"Just being on the UConn team with Geno as the coach ?????????
seems ot have lost its attraction to many players. ????????
They will not be happy to just ride the bench." ????????
Thus spoke willtalk. Or, when were these intimations true? If any of these intimations exist other than inside your head, please identify the players who have confessed to you. Then again, confession is private-- isn't it. And such is the happy status of more and more Boneyarders! I'm beginning to have schizophrenic-like experience on this Board, recently. Where their is a "real" Uconn team and another one and it is unclear which imaginary one is in discussion at any given time. Some times there is a Uconn team that is sub-divided into first and second teams, and we are told that the 2nd team is good enough to be in the top 20. Some wrtes that the 2nd team is receiving inferior coaching as compare to the 1st (no one as yet to suggest that the 2nd team travels by bus or economy class-- hint, hint...). And many think that if the coaches learn to put these two units together we would have a great team! Maybe you are right, the (thrill)/attraction is gone. It is US/Boneyarders who have lost the thrill of the play.