They were worried PSU would go to ACC?

[tzznandrew]

No it's idiotic to say that Penn State is going to change conferences because of calls in games.

Yeah Penn State is bigger than Michigan and Ohio State. Lets check back in ten years after they spend another decade looking up at them.

You can't even be remotely objective about Penn State so I'll drop out now and you can get the last word by misrepresenting my position and crying the Big 10 is out to get PSU

Honestly, I think in this conversation you've gone off the deep end in misrepresenting upstater's position.

He said he didn't believe that PSU was going to leave for the ACC. It only made sense if:

Notre Dame was somehow talking to PSU about going all in to the ACC. The two schools could have demanded some changes in the ACCs payout structure (and FSU would have gone along) which would have given them as much if not more cake than what PSU gets from the B10.

He then followed it up, correcting someone's suggestion about fans' frustration about the sanctions, and said that he only heard fans complain about officiating. And then he provided some evidence to back up his point. But he hardly ever said they were going to change conferences because of calls in games. Are all fanbases upset, at times, about calls? Sure. Do they think conferences are out to get them? Probably not--but perhaps PSU fans feel that way, rightly or wrongly. Again, he didn't say they'd leave the conference.

In your argument about Penn State's "cache," he never said they were bigger than Ohio State and Michigan. He said that

they're not well behind. As has been proven over and over and over again by eyeballs. By popularity.

You didn't counter that, you changed his argument from "not well behind" to "bigger than."

You say he can't be objective about Penn State--but you can't seem to be objective about upstater. This is not the first time you've started arguments with him. Where you normally keep your arguments straight, here you're doing what you usually criticize others for.

 

[whaler11]

Honestly, I think in this conversation you've gone off the deep end in misrepresenting upstater's position.

He said he didn't believe that PSU was going to leave for the ACC. It only made sense if:



He then followed it up, correcting someone's suggestion about fans' frustration about the sanctions, and said that he only heard fans complain about officiating. And then he provided some evidence to back up his point. But he hardly ever said they were going to change conferences because of calls in games. Are all fanbases upset, at times, about calls? Sure. Do they think conferences are out to get them? Probably not--but perhaps PSU fans feel that way, rightly or wrongly. Again, he didn't say they'd leave the conference.

In your argument about Penn State's "cache," he never said they were bigger than Ohio State and Michigan. He said that



You didn't counter that, you changed his argument from "not well behind" to "bigger than."

You say he can't be objective about Penn State--but you can't seem to be objective about upstater. This is not the first time you've started arguments with him. Where you normally keep your arguments straight, here you're doing what you usually criticize others for.

You may be right - I've had a lot to drink .

Both can be true though he isn't objective about Penn State and he does annoy me talking about them.

I do think Michigan and Ohio State lend more stature to a league than Penn State even before the sanctions, nevermind after. I think PSU is both well behind and not bigger than OSU and Michigan.

Pretty much my point on the refs: If there are Penn State fans who think they get screwed by refs in the Big 10 there are a half dozen ACC fanbases that think the same thing about their refs. If you want to escape biased officiating the last place you want to go is the ACC. Even UConn has been burned by the terrible Ron Cherry.

 

[upstater]

No it's idiotic to say that Penn State is going to change conferences because of calls in games.

Yeah Penn State is bigger than Michigan and Ohio State. Lets check back in ten years after they spend another decade looking up at them.

You can't even be remotely objective about Penn State so I'll drop out now and you can get the last word by misrepresenting my position and crying the Big 10 is out to get PSU

No one said PSU is going to change conferences because of ref calls. Learn to read.

No one said PSU is bigger than OSU and Michigan. Learn to think.

 

[whaler11]

No one said PSU is going to change conferences because of ref calls. Learn to read.

No one said PSU is bigger than OSU and Michigan. Learn to think.

Thanks for being a one post after I said I may have misunderstood your arguments.

 

[upstater]

Thanks for being a one post after I said I may have misunderstood your arguments.

It's what you always do. And you call me a . Unreal.

 

[whaler11]

It's what you always do. And you call me a . Unreal.

Right. There aren't hundreds of posts where you talk in circles defending Penn State available with a quick search. Why don't you go lament how mean the Big 10 office is to PSU with your fellow Nittany Lions?

 

[upstater]

Right. There aren't hundreds of posts where you talk in circles defending Penn State available with a quick search. Why don't you go lament how mean the Big 10 office is to PSU with your fellow Nittany Lions?

Go for the quick search.

 

[tzznandrew]

You may be right - I've had a lot to drink .

It's alright, happens to the best of us.

Both can be true though he isn't objective about Penn State and he does annoy me talking about them.

Also quite possible (likely?). Wasn't trying to suggest this, really.

I do think Michigan and Ohio State lend more stature to a league than Penn State even before the sanctions, nevermind after. I think PSU is both well behind and not bigger than OSU and Michigan.

Michigan, Ohio State, ND, Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, USC is probably that first tier. But I'm not convinced they draw much more ratings than Penn State, Nebraska, and the other schools in that second tier that I can't really remember. I think you're right in suggesting that there is more national cache about those schools. But since college football is less democratic than college basketball, I would suggest that the difference in perception between Penn State and Michigan is probably less than that between Duke and Louisville in basketball. People know Duke is better historically, but it's not so great a difference. And the difference between Louisville and everyone else (generally speaking) is cavernous.

Pretty much my point on the refs: If there are Penn State fans who think they get screwed by refs in the Big 10 there are a half dozen ACC fanbases that think the same thing about their refs. If you want to escape biased officiating the last place you want to go is the ACC. Even UConn has been burned by the terrible Ron Cherry.

You are right in that all fanbases think they get screwed by the refs. Louisville hasn't let a call or two go yet. I think the difference here is that Penn State fans always felt like outsiders because of how late they joined, and so they saw the issues not just as bad refs, but as the league itself screwing them over. I can imagine that, psychologically, its difference. If UConn ever joins the ACC, those refs will not be just refs, but representations of the ACCs desire for us to suck relative to their "real" members. Is that what the school and administration think? No. Was Penn State ever going to leave? No.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

From what I know of PSU alumni, almost no one shares that sentiment of being upset with the Big10 because of sanctions. The vast majority of them actually feel that it was PSU's BOT that drew up the punishment and the NCAA signed off. I don't think that happened, but that's what they believe.

I think FCF is right and that this only makes sense if Notre Dame was somehow talking to PSU about going all in to the ACC. The two schools could have demanded some changes in the ACCs payout structure (and FSU would have gone along) which would have given them as much if not more cake than what PSU gets from the B10.

Lastly, the only time I heard about PSU fans wanting the ACC was after the unbelievably bad refs during the Nebraska game. As usual PSU fans are convinced that the reffing in the Big10 is influenced if not controlled by the biases of the league office. That I agree on. This is why they hate the B10.

I have nothing to back up my statements, just the talk around the water cooler at work and the bar after work. I honestly believe these ‘issues’ with the BiG were in place long before the Sandusky tragedy and that event and resulting sanctions just brought them to the forefront and are driven by a small group of ‘old-school’ alumni. No one I talked to took them seriously; but, my guess is that the issue was talked about enough to show-up on several boards and flame the concept of Penn St. moving to the ACC.