The Refs Stole The Game

[triaddukefan]

What Reeve should be doing is some self examination to figure out how she and her staff can have arguably the most talented team in WNBA history with the greatest player in the world and not blow LA's doors off. You have four players who were part of the USA Olympic team and you can't bring home a title? The call was missed but this was not the only play in the game and EVERY play had an impact of the eventual outcome. The BIGGEST play of the game was when Nneka ran in unfettered, grabbed a rebound and put up the winning shot. THAT, my friends, was the biggest play of the game but it will get overshadowed, to some, by the one second on that one possession, which, by the way, also involved Nneka making a play.

The cats were tired

 

[easttexastrash]

The cats were tired

It looks like it was a blessing in disguise for Nneka and Parker to have been left off the Olympic team. Syl, Maya, Whalen and Fowles have their gold medals to bring them comfort.

 

[Blueballer]

What Reeve should be doing is some self examination to figure out how she and her staff can have arguably the most talented team in WNBA history with the greatest player in the world and not blow LA's doors off. You have four players who were part of the USA Olympic team and you can't bring home a title? The call was missed but this was not the only play in the game and EVERY play had an impact of the eventual outcome. The BIGGEST play of the game was when Nneka ran in unfettered, grabbed a rebound and put up the winning shot. THAT, my friends, was the biggest play of the game but it will get overshadowed, to some, by the one second on that one possession, which, by the way, also involved Nneka making a play.

There's a massive amount of talent on the LA Team. In fact many of them have been extremely talented career under acheivers but still talented ( Ex. Beard, Toliver) Just because Minn had 4 Olympians that doesn't mean there isn't only a small degree of difference between them and other players in the WNBA. Plus you could also argue that those Olympic players had the added grind of not getting the time off the LA players did. I think older players like Whalen and Fowles wear down without that break. Another humorous aside: People on the Vol nation message board were clobbering Parker for standing around and /or bitching to the refs for much of this final. They sounded like they had given up on LA winning it. Funny with sports , you have to play the games. Plus you have to make sure the games aren't close because you can't trust the officiating. That's why it's nice when UCONN wins decisively.

 

[Vowelguy]

It's over and done with. At some point you have to accept that things won't change and you just have to accept that poor officiating is still part of the game.

After the Louisville game Baylor fans were told to suck it up, that bad officiating is part of the game and that you have to know how to win despite poor officiating. Kim Mulkey and Brittney Griner were deemed as failures for not winning that game. It doesn't seem that the same rule applies to Reeve and the Minnesota players.

Those are not remotely comparable.

First, some officiating is art; some science. Judging physical play is art. Whether a basket was scored and the time on the clock is verifiable.

Second, a call made in the waning seconds cannot be overcome, so it really does determine the outcome of a game.

Third, everyone understands that refs make mistakes. But the point of instant reply is to allow a closer look, and less time pressure.

I didn't see the game. But to hear that replay existed and the refs refused to use to it makes any sport look like a laughingstock.

 

[DaddyChoc]

damn... sour grapes, can't wait to see what happens when MKW verbals

 

[UConn990411]

It's over and done with. At some point you have to accept that things won't change and you just have to accept that poor officiating is still part of the game.

After the Louisville game Baylor fans were told to suck it up, that bad officiating is part of the game and that you have to know how to win despite poor officiating. Kim Mulkey and Brittney Griner were deemed as failures for not winning that game. It doesn't seem that the same rule applies to Reeve and the Minnesota players.

At some point, maybe people should stop "accepting that bad officiating is part of the game" and demand improvements.

Maybe then, inexcusably bad officiating won't influence two of five games in the WNBA finals.

 

[Justavisitor]

Those are not remotely comparable.

First, some officiating is art; some science. Judging physical play is art. Whether a basket was scored and the time on the clock is verifiable.

Second, a call made in the waning seconds cannot be overcome, so it really does determine the outcome of a game.

Third, everyone understands that refs make mistakes. But the point of instant reply is to allow a closer look, and less time pressure.

I didn't see the game. But to hear that replay existed and the refs refused to use to it makes any sport look like a laughingstock.

I totally agree that officiating in the women's game is absolutely deplorable and it needs to be over hauled. What's worse is there are times when the officials don't even seem to know the rules.

In Game 4, the back court violation occurred during the last 24 seconds of the game, but it was not called. While there is plenty of video available, this was deemed to not be the type of play that can be reviewed. Had the officials been paying attention and counting, the Sparks would have gotten the ball back down by 2 points with 24 seconds, which is plenty time to tie the game up. The final outcome may have been the same or may not have been, but we'll never know.

In Game 5, this was a reviewable play to check the shot clock, but in the last 2 minutes of the game, the official must review this immediately. It's similar to the NFL, where you must review it prior to any further action or play taking place. Had that call been made immediately, per the rules of the last 2 minutes of a game, the basket would have been waved off and the game would have been tied with 1:12 left on the clock. That's over a minute, with a tie game at that point, so there's no way it can be said that this call changed the outcome of the game. Alot can happen in over a minute.

The mishap with only 24 seconds left was actually worse, because the only way for LA to get the ball back was for them to foul. Now a 2 point lead is a 4 point lead with only seconds remaining and not over a minute.

Regardless, officiating stinks. The refs need to catch up to the game. It's past time for the WNBA and NCAA to take a serious look at how the officiating is hurting the product.

 

[Vowelguy]

In Game 5, this was a reviewable play to check the shot clock, but in the last 2 minutes of the game, the official must review this immediately.

No.
This would imply that the refs decision to not review was correct.
If that were the case, the league would have affirmed their decision.

It did not.

Also my mistake earlier - I thought the no call was made with 1 second left not 1 minute.

 

[MilfordHusky]

From the WNBA site:

October 21, 2016

NEW YORK, Oct. 21, 2016 – Renee Brown, WNBA Chief of Basketball Operations and Player Relations, issued the following statement today regarding a play late in the fourth quarter of the Los Angeles Sparks’ 77-76 win over the Minnesota Lynx on Thursday at Target Center:

“After reviewing postgame video, we have determined that Nneka Ogwumike’s shot with 1:14 remaining in regulation time should not have counted due to a shot-clock violation, and that the referees improperly failed to review the play under the instant replay rules.”

This was Cheryl's complaint. Don't issue a memorandum of apology. Get the call right in the first place. At least the simple things, like this and the 8-second call.

I like Cheryl's timing. If she had waited until the off-season, the call would have fallen on deaf ears. After The league had to issue apologies after both Games 4 and 5 of the Finals, it's CLEAR that improvement in officiating is needed. Frankly, I think the WCBB officials are better than the WNBA officials.

 

[BigBird]

She should have added: The final score stands because the Lynx had ample opportunity to secure a victory by simply securing a defensive rebound.

...or for that matter, hitting any of a slew of layups and bunnies that most any eighth-grader could have easily scored. This WNBA final was a step backward for a league that struggles with quality issues and the public perception of its performance.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I thought Cheryl Reeve's comments in the post game press conference was as well handled as any others in recent memory! Coach Reeve brought up the 8 second clock violation in game 4 that damaged the Sparks chances and brought up the non-review at 1:14 on Nneka's shot in game 5 earlier. She was speaking out for both teams in the Finals and all players and coaches in the rest of the WNBA that have to put up with incompetent refereeing every play of every game all season!

 

[Blueballer]

I thought Cheryl Reeve's comments in the post game press conference was as well handled as any others in recent memory! Coach Reeve brought up the 8 second clock violation in game 4 that damaged the Sparks chances and brought up the non-review at 1:14 on Nneka's shot in game 5 earlier. She was speaking out for both teams in the Finals and all players and coaches in the rest of the WNBA that have to put up with incompetent refereeing every play of every game all season!

At this point that is a good way to look at it. They're not going to do a makeover so the coaches might as well get together and say the level of officiatiing is deplorable and needs to be addressed. Too many mistakes are made. If something like this had happened in the NBA Finals you can just imagine what the news coverage would be like. Talk radio would be going crazy.

 

[uconnever]

At some point, maybe people should stop "accepting that bad officiating is part of the game" and demand improvements.

Maybe then, inexcusably bad officiating won't influence two of five games in the WNBA finals.

Exactly....its been going on for too long. Those that say just accept it, dont think about all the sleepless nights and preparation these players put into this, to be robbed of a fair chance in the end. And that goes both ways.

 

[VAMike23]

I see we have a fair amount of indiscriminate heat already generated in this thread re: the refs' mistakes, so what the hell, I'll pile on.

As a staunch Lynx fan I will say that Reeve's comments--while understandable with respect to their content and their timing, made shortly after the battle had ended--lacked class. She took time to say that she was not taking anything away from the Sparks' win, but the way she put those comments across did precisely that. (By contrast, Seimone was gracious in her commentary and I commend her for keeping the focus on all that was good -- actually great -- about this series.). I pull for Maya and the Lynx 24/7 but this game and this series are chalked up to the Sparks' side of the ledger and there are NO asterisks next to that W. Period. Reeve brought up the missed 8-second call in game 4 as being just as bad, or however she put it - but was she hot under the collar and spewing about that in the presser after Game 4? Duh. Of course not. Those who talk about how that mistake "didn't actually impact the win" because there final box score showed a 6 point MOV? Wow. Just wow. Really? What meds are you taking these days? Or maybe some of the bottles are empty and the problem is that you need some prescriptions refilled? As JP McEnroe would say, You Cannot Be Serious. The way things play out from these inflection points can never be known. Does it suck more when blown calls are close to the end of the game? Duh. Do we all want refs to not f$&k things up? Duh. It's plain to see that the Lynx would have had a 2 point edge instead of being tied but anyone who simply tacks on 2 points to the final score and calls it a day is being a complete ignoramus. Also duh.

What's the average age of Boneyarders again? Something well north of 25(!) -- we'll just leave it at that. So how many sporting events have you watched in your lifetime ? 3? 4? Or maybe a few more ? Probably closer to 3,000 or 4,000 I'd bet. It looks like many have collectively forgotten the many f$&k ups with respect to refs and umpires that have occurred in the past and will always occur, unless and until we arrive at a time where quantum supercomputer -aided referee councils sitting on Mt. Olympus can jointly monitor and administer all sporting events in real-time so that perfection is achieved and all traces of human error are smothered in the crib before they can affect the game, there will be f$&k ups. Maybe in the wake of this game there will be a rule change so that in the last 2:00 a review can be initiated where it was initially passed up by the referees' error. That would be a good thing. Until then, some things we know include the fact that refs sometimes suck, or at least they will sometimes make sucky mistakes at particularly sucky times that make you want to pull your hair out and say, "YOU SUCK."

Fine.

I'm 49 years old - younger than many here, older than others - and I have seen my share of referee and umpire f$&k ups. I have not seen the last.

The Los Angeles Sparks are the WNBA champions for 2016, fair and square. FAIR AND SQUARE. I wanted Maya and the Lynx to come out on top, but they lost. I tip my hat to the victors and am capable of admiring them in their moment of triumph. This appears to be more than many here can say (especially with one CP3 in the mix) after what was almost certainly the best championship series and the most exciting and competitive Final game in the recent history of the WNBA. Talk about missing the forest for one solitary tree. My God.

To those of the XY persuasion, at least, grow a pair and move on to next season, and/or to the UCONN bball season, unless you want start your boycott now and root for your team in provisional protest in anticipation of the slights and errors that are sure to come your way, courtesy of the refs, or whomever else, in whatever sport. Be my guest.

 

[malevocalist#]

What Reeve should be doing is some self examination to figure out how she and her staff can have arguably the most talented team in WNBA history with the greatest player in the world and not blow LA's doors off. You have four players who were part of the USA Olympic team and you can't bring home a title? The call was missed but this was not the only play in the game and EVERY play had an impact of the eventual outcome. The BIGGEST play of the game was when Nneka ran in unfettered, grabbed a rebound and put up the winning shot. THAT, my friends, was the biggest play of the game but it will get overshadowed, to some, by the one second on that one possession, which, by the way, also involved Nneka making a play.

easttexastrash said,
"The BIGGEST play of the game was when Nneka ran in unfettered, grabbed a rebound and put up the winning shot. THAT, my friends, was the biggest play of the game"

That was a dagger in the heart attached to the failure to review.

You got to be kidding! That was the biggest play? And not the extra 2 points attached to it? Really?

"I'll have one of those famous drinks also bartender, Shaken, not stirred, and minus the fool.

You tipsy? Ain't it na?

That alleged (Biggest Shot) would have been mute without the awarded 2 points. So how is it big? Big maybe but wouldn't have mattered or sealed the game for LA absent 2 points.

 

[malevocalist#]

I totally agree that officiating in the women's game is absolutely deplorable and it needs to be over hauled. What's worse is there are times when the officials don't even seem to know the rules.

In Game 4, the back court violation occurred during the last 24 seconds of the game, but it was not called. While there is plenty of video available, this was deemed to not be the type of play that can be reviewed. Had the officials been paying attention and counting, the Sparks would have gotten the ball back down by 2 points with 24 seconds, which is plenty time to tie the game up. The final outcome may have been the same or may not have been, but we'll never know.

In Game 5, this was a reviewable play to check the shot clock, but in the last 2 minutes of the game, the official must review this immediately. It's similar to the NFL, where you must review it prior to any further action or play taking place. Had that call been made immediately, per the rules of the last 2 minutes of a game, the basket would have been waved off and the game would have been tied with 1:12 left on the clock. That's over a minute, with a tie game at that point, so there's no way it can be said that this call changed the outcome of the game. Alot can happen in over a minute.

The mishap with only 24 seconds left was actually worse, because the only way for LA to get the ball back was for them to foul. Now a 2 point lead is a 4 point lead with only seconds remaining and not over a minute.

Regardless, officiating stinks. The refs need to catch up to the game. It's past time for the WNBA and NCAA to take a serious look at how the officiating is hurting the product.

Correction. The game would not have been tied. Lynx would have been up 2 with the ball.

 

[malevocalist#]

Let it be known that the game is final. Its over. But don't tell me what to believe or think. We all have our opinions.

Many foreseen the direction that game was heading in if the review was awarded immediately.

Don't hate us because our views doesn't align itself with some or yours. And I don't care how much so call knowledge one may think they have facts are facts and cannot be disputed.

Yes the Sparks was awarded the win. But in my eyes And mind they didn't. That's my opinion. Like it or not. You can write a book about afterwards And it still won't matter to me regardless.

Lynx scored on that play. And if that basket is wave they are now up 4 points with under 40 something seconds left Plain and simple. Chew in that.

No one needs to write a book regarding those facts.

 

[Carnac]

damn... sour grapes, can't wait to see what happens when MKW verbals

There will only be sour grapes here if she commits to another program. If she comes here, the bone yard will be like New Orleans during Mardi Gras.

 

[Justavisitor]

This

 

[Bestiarius]

At some point, maybe people should stop "accepting that bad officiating is part of the game" and demand improvements.

Maybe then, inexcusably bad officiating won't influence two of five games in the WNBA finals.

Perhaps this is the problem?:
Officals salary (2015)

NBA Entry-Level Referees - Per match $1000 – $2000, per year $200,000
Senior NBA Referees - Per match $3,000 – $4,000, per year $550,000
WNBA Referees - per match $500, per year $19,000

Certainly raises suspicions that WNBA refs need to make a few extra bucks somehow.

 

[StarMan]

New York Times article via THE ASSOCIATED PRESS:

W.N.B.A. Admits Officials Made Critical Error Late in Game 5 of Finals

 

[malevocalist#]

Perhaps this is the problem?:
Officals salary (2015)

NBA Entry-Level Referees - Per match $1000 – $2000, per year $200,000
Senior NBA Referees - Per match $3,000 – $4,000, per year $550,000
WNBA Referees - per match $500, per year $19,000

Certainly raises suspicions that WNBA refs need to make a few extra bucks somehow.

So there pay is an excuse?

 

[malevocalist#]

Lynx credit Sparks but question officiating

 

[Charlie]

I think the refs are ruining the women's game - not the excellent play as some point the finger

 

[triaddukefan]

I think the refs are ruining the women's game - not the excellent play as some point the finger

Yep...... we gotta improve the officiating... somehow

Lets make the WNBA great again !!!