OT: The problem with Team USA women's hoops

[darkstar1]

Unfortunately, she was not good offensively on the first 2 warm up games (limited minutes) and sometimes those players who do those little things that are not on the stat sheet don't shine in limited minutes if the offense is not working and unfortunately, you have a short time to show what you can do.
And Napheesa is the kind of player that plays best in a concrete and intelligent system with guards (remember she was playing with the backup guards) who know how to get the ball to her in her best places. I think very similar story as Aaliyah Edwards.

I would think Napheesa would get more opportunities with Cheryl on the bench but Dawn I think comes from the "Mamba" school. Just play the best players who are wired to hit big shots at big moments. under any conditions

I agree with your assessment. That’s why I say play her with the starting group at the 3 and give her the minutes to shine. She would give the team what they are missing, I believe, although can certainly win it all without her….or any other one player for that matter. Can’t wait til Paige is getting her the ball in a few years!

 

[EricLA]

Yes, Stewie and Odyssey were the last players off the bench in the 2014 World Cup. Stewie was young and still adding strength. She got schooled by some experienced players and got no calls from the refs. But she was much better in 2016 and has become the best in the world. So, don't judge her by the 2014 WC!

That wasn't the point of my post.

 

[Dove]

IMHO the bottom line is the problem is the roster. It has ZERO to do with Ogwumike - it's becoming crystal clear this team is in desperate need of guards and wings. Nneka lost her spot to Stewie, Wilson and Charles, not to Pheesa and Ariel. There was no way the team needed to add yet another forward. In hindsight, not a controversial choice at all, in spite of all the hysteria from Chiney and other "experts".

Regardless, Team USA 2016 had Elena, Maya, Angel, Lindsey, Siemone, and Tameka. This team has replaced them with Jewell, Chelsea, Skylar, Ariel, Napheesa and A'ja. That is a HUGE downgrade with the exception of Wilson.

Bottom line is that even tho Tameka was the last player off the bench, she was in the twilight of her career, everyone else was at their peak. Lindsey, while not a pass first PG, was far better than Gray. This current team has no true 3 except for Pheesa,and maybe Ariel, who so far, have not shown they are ready for this stage. Stewie is a 4 and is forced to play out of position when this team plays Wilson/Griner or Charles/Fowles. This team has 5 forwards and 7 guards/wings, but with Diggins, Atkins and Collier just not up to it so far, they only have 4 players, really, for 3 positions, which is why Stewie is playing out of position.

I actually think the best lineup is Sue, Dee, Jewell, Stewie and A'ja. But with the plethora of post players on the bench, how do you rotate them in? USA's strength is in the post, but their weakness is in the backup guard/wing play, and on defense. How many times did we see Griner, Stewie, or Wilson on the tiny Japanese point guard trying to keep her in front of them? Same for Charles and Fowles - they all were guarding faster and quicker players.

The roster is not Dawn's fault. I do think Gray played better against Japan. Loyd is right up there with Dee and Sue as far as being great at what she needs to do. But this team is wrongly built against smaller, quicker, more physical teams who have great outside shooting. Even tho Japan shot poorly from the 3, they still made it a tight game. NO one on team USA could stop the guards from Japan, and the help defense was always a step slow.

Bottom line is this will be a problem IMHO until the next generation of guards/wings develop. Sabrina, Caitlin, Paige, Azzi, Boston (post obviously) are the next generation of greats who will be coming up, but it's still short on 3's. Haley Jones? Cameron Brink? Take Lou from the 3x3 team? Collier will improve. But who else is there? To me it's clear this team has too many elite 4's/5's and not enough elite 1's. 2's, and 3's. I have no doubt players will emerge over time, but this team is one of the weaker USA national teams in recent history...

Just putting it out there...could ya use last names next time?

 

[Bald Husky]

Just putting it out there...could ya use last names next time?

Delle Donne, Moore, McCoughtry, Whalen, Augustus, Catchings

Loyd, Gray, Diggins-Smith, Atkins, Collier, Wilson

 

[oldude]

Joining this thread a little late. I wanted to make one comment about USA guard play. Going back to Rio in 2016, I felt that whenever Sue & DT were not on the court, USA offensive execution left a lot to be desired.

Sue & DT are now 5 years older and clearly nearing the end of their extraordinary careers. At the same time, the younger guards in the W, with the possible exception of Loyd, have yet to step up as the next generation of US guards.

Whatever happens during these Olympics, there will undoubtedly be a “changing of the guards” for USA basketball in 2024. It may well be that current players in the W, like Ionescu & Plum seize the opportunity. IMO, the next generation of USA guards wiill come from the remarkable younger generation that’s still in college. Specifically, I see the possibility of a starting USA backcourt of Paige & Clark in 2024.

 

[baggerbob]

Joining this thread a little late. I wanted to make one comment about USA guard play. Going back to Rio in 2016, I felt that whenever Sue & DT were not on the court, USA offensive execution left a lot to be desired.

Sue & DT are now 5 years older and clearly nearing the end of their extraordinary careers. At the same time, the younger guards in the W, with the possible exception of Loyd, have yet to step up as the next generation of US guards.

Whatever happens during these Olympics, there will undoubtedly be a “changing of the guards” for USA basketball in 2024. It may well be that current players in the W, like Ionescu & Plum seize the opportunity. IMO, the next generation of USA guards wiill come from the remarkable younger generation that’s still in college. Specifically, I see the possibility of a starting USA backcourt of Paige & Clark in 2024.

Really believe that if EDD was healthy, you wouldn't have had as close games. Stewie, A'ja, and EDD would have played the most. Most of the turnovers have been from Britney, Sylvia, and Tina. They also have a harder time guarding on the perimeter.
EDD's outside shooting would have destroyed both Nigeria, and Japan. Her ability to handle, along with Sue, Dee, and Stewie would have lead to many fast breaks against the press.

 

[EricLA]

Joining this thread a little late. I wanted to make one comment about USA guard play. Going back to Rio in 2016, I felt that whenever Sue & DT were not on the court, USA offensive execution left a lot to be desired.

Sue & DT are now 5 years older and clearly nearing the end of their extraordinary careers. At the same time, the younger guards in the W, with the possible exception of Loyd, have yet to step up as the next generation of US guards.

Whatever happens during these Olympics, there will undoubtedly be a “changing of the guards” for USA basketball in 2024. It may well be that current players in the W, like Ionescu & Plum seize the opportunity. IMO, the next generation of USA guards wiill come from the remarkable younger generation that’s still in college. Specifically, I see the possibility of a starting USA backcourt of Paige & Clark in 2024.

There are some terrific younger guards, but I asked the question earlier - will they consider taking players off the 3x3 team and moving them to the 5x5 team? 3x3 is so specialized - the team has little enough time to train and play together (just look at how much Young struggled in taking Lou's place). The game is totally different with rules, style, strategy, and gaining cohesiveness. Give Young another month of practice with the 3x3 and I'm sure it would have been a different story.

Not sure this was asked either - will the world championships be adding a 3x3 court somewhere? It's usually played outdoors - but can they convert a stadium for the 3x3 portion?

Getting back to my previous point, Dolson, Gray and Plum all played awesome. Heck, they won the gold over France and Russia who were seeded 1-2 going into the tourney. But if you constantly take players off the 3x3 team, it's a whole new learning curve, as Jackie Young discovered. Also, players were ONLY eligible for the 3x3 if they had enough international points, right? So IMHO they need to identify the 3x3 team early so they can practice together and prepare for international play.

Last point - in addition to the players mentioned, a few other names to possibly consider - A. McDonald, M. Jefferson (if finally healthy), and T. Harris. Is Carter's career essentially over (suspended indefinitely)? I don't think Ogunbowale will ever be a good fit for Team USA.

Also if this team was built mostly to battle Cambage, is her time done on Team Australia? What she did was incredibly egregious, so I wonder if her time on that team is forever over.

 

[Hayven]

She needs 89 more points to pass Lisa Leslie

 

[UcMiami]

I think the USA basketball problems are based on issues to do with quality collegiate players, player longevity (benefit as well), and a bit of uneven career paths.

USA basketball takes 12 players and the typical careers post college are about 12 years. 2002 Sue began as a NT member in a WC, 2004 DT and Sue were in their first Olympics and have both been unquestioned leaders since 2006 WC (Bronze medal when a number of the older veterans were unavailable.) From there forward a couple of the vets returned for 2008 swan songs, and USA made a point of adding one or two young players to each team. Sue and DT were fixtures and they were followed by Fowles, Augustus, Parker, Charles, Moore, McCoughtry, EDD, Griner, Stewart all being groomed and then becoming fixtures with some other great players who showed for a cycle or two filling in the roster and a number of others getting trials and being added to various trial pools.

Moore, Augustus, and Catching ended their USA careers in 2016 leaving a hole at SF/Wing - Catchings was ending her playing career, Augustus was winding hers down (coaching now after her last season as a bench player for LA in 2020 bubble), and Moore stopped her basketball career to pursue other interests in 2018. Add in a medically challenged EDD and is not available and the SF/WG veterans are pretty much gone.

Off that 2016 team McCoughtry who also played wing and is injured and Whalen who was an experienced PG and ended her career in 2018.

The 2018/2020/1 NT was always going to be involved in a transition. With a new coach and then Moore, EDD, and McCoughtry unavailable when they are still in their playing window, and with the obvious 'can't miss' developmental players occupying the post positions with the exception being Moore there is an clear hole at the guard and wing spots which will get worse as I doubt DT or Bird will be on the 2022 WC team. The college ranks have just not produced the quality PG, G, or Wing that screams 'must' be in the NT and the pro careers also just haven't overly impressed. The players that have been drafted in to the NT at those spots haven't stuck.

As others have said taking Nneka or _____ wasn't the issue with this team. Finding the next generation of guards and wings is the issue. And I don't think anyone has really come up with an obvious PG/SG/W that belongs on this team for this competition. The cupboard is kind of bare. Sabrina would be nice but she has no experience and was injured last year.