The Orville

[CL82]

This show is not good. The humor falls flat. It just doesn't work.

Finished the season. Pretty good. I appreciate that while Seth is tackling all the modern social issues, he's doing so in a way that is pretty nuanced and somewhat thought provoking most of the time.

Anne Winters was a nice addition as Charly Burke, and of course Seth is dating her. So, just like Halston Sage, they had to then kill her off. Very next episode, new pretty girl shows up on the ship (Lysella). Final episode was a bit of a let down.

I guess sometimes you just have to stick with stuff.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I guess sometimes you just have to stick with stuff.

Yes, I had another post in between those.

 

[HuskyHawk]

They wrote Halston out of the show, but they didn't kill her character. She appeared at the end of this season's finale.

I was pretty bummed about what happened to Charly.

Lysella was in an episode in Season 1. I had to go back and rewatch it. The actress seems to fit the profile for Seth's dating habits.


Agreed. I could never really get interested in the Isaac/Dr. Finn ongoing drama

Yes, I know she wasn't "killed", and it was nice to see her again. But Seth was dating Halston Sage, and is dating Anne Winters. So we've got a pattern. I liked Charly too. Let's hope he doesn't start dating Giorgia Whigham (Lysella). As bad as Isaac/Dr. Finn is, Moclan mating rituals are even worse.

 

[temery]

Finished the season. Pretty good. I appreciate that while Seth is tackling all the modern social issues, he's doing so in a way that is pretty nuanced and somewhat thought provoking most of the time.

Anne Winters was a nice addition as Charly Burke, and of course Seth is dating her. So, just like Halston Sage, they had to then kill her off. Very next episode, new pretty girl shows up on the ship (Lysella). Final episode was a bit of a let down.

'They're getting away from the Guardians of the Galaxy stuff, and turning it into more of a straight sci-fi show.

hope it's renewed.

 

[nomar]

I honestly can't tell from the thread whether it's worth watching.

Seems like it took a while to find its stride.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I honestly can't tell from the thread whether it's worth watching.

Seems like it took a while to find its stride.

The early couple episodes are a bit cringeworthy. Seth's humor can sometimes (often) be infantile. As they strayed from bad comedy to good sci fi, it got much better. There are still little bits of it but it became less of a focus. I think it's worth it.

 

[temery]

I honestly can't tell from the thread whether it's worth watching.

Seems like it took a while to find its stride.

'Very much worth watching.

 

[nomar]

The early couple episodes are a bit cringeworthy. Seth's humor can sometimes (often) be infantile. As they strayed from bad comedy to good sci fi, it got much better. There are still little bits of it but it became less of a focus. I think it's worth it.

I don't actually like his humor very much. Not a Family Guy guy. ("Hey, that's nothing! Remember when X did X to X?") Ted was OK.

I'd watch it as a (casual) Star Trek fan. So I guess what you and Tom are saying is that there's a good progression.

Any of you guys read Redshirts by John Scalzi?

Redshirts (novel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nwhoopfan]

Any of you guys read Redshirts by John Scalzi?

I did. Interesting idea, but I thought the premise ran thin well before the book ended. I've really enjoyed some of his other books.

 

[CL82]

I did. Interesting idea, but I thought the premise ran thin well before the book ended. I've really enjoyed some of his other books.

Same. The concept of red shirts got me reading Scalzi. I enjoyed the Old Man’s War series. The concept is at some age, call at age 70, seniors can enlist in the space army. Nobody knows how it works because part of the deal is you give up contact with anyone back on earth. It’s an interesting idea that is well executed.

@nomar

 

[nomar]

Same. The concept of red shirts got me reading Scalzi. I enjoyed the Old Man’s War series. The concept is at some age, call at age 70, seniors can enlist in the space army. Nobody knows how it works because part of the deal is you give up contact with anyone back on earth. It’s an interesting idea that is well executed.

@nomar

I've read pretty much all of his stuff and I think the Old Man's War series is the best -- particularly the first book.

Redshirts is definitely middle of the road for him, but it was clever and I was interested until the end.

Either of you guys read Lock-In? If so, I have a question for you.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Either of you guys read Lock-In?

Haven't read that one.

Enjoyed stand alones Agent to the Stars, Android's Dream and Fuzzy Nation. Collapsing Empire series wasn't that good.

 

[CL82]

Haven't read that one.

Enjoyed stand alones Agent to the Stars, Android's Dream and Fuzzy Nation. Collapsing Empire series wasn't that good.

I’ve read them all. I wouldn’t read them again but they’re definitely a good read.

@nomar I read locked in, and possibly the sequel, but I only vaguely remember them. It was a while ago.

 

[nomar]

Haven't read that one.

Enjoyed stand alones Agent to the Stars, Android's Dream and Fuzzy Nation. Collapsing Empire series wasn't that good.

I enjoyed Collapsing Empire but it's no Old Man's War. Android's Dream was definitely the best of the other 3.

@CL82 My question re Lock-In is this: What gender was the protagonist?

 

[CL82]

I enjoyed Collapsing Empire but it's no Old Man's War. Android's Dream was definitely the best of the other 3.

@CL82 My question re Lock-In is this: What gender was the protagonist?

That’s a great question. In my minds eye, he was always male. Given that he’s a Hayden, labels may not be all that relevant though. I believe there was some discussion about that in one of the books.

 

[nomar]

That’s a great question. In my minds eye, he was always male. Given that he’s a Hayden, labels may not be all that relevant though. I believe there was some discussion about that in one of the books.

I'm not sure exactly when it dawned on me that Chris's gender was never identified. I think it was towards the end of the book. But it was perfectly executed. I think it doesn't even dawn on many people -- they just make an assumption. Clever on Scalzi's part. I don't know whether he wanted to make the point you're making, or just wanted to see whether he could write a novel with a gender-less protagonist without readers realizing it. Or both.

Maybe it was referenced in the second book.

 

[CL82]

I'm not sure exactly when it dawned on me that Chris's gender was never identified. I think it was towards the end of the book. But it was perfectly executed. I think it doesn't even dawn on many people -- they just make an assumption. Clever on Scalzi's part.

Maybe it was referenced in the second book.

They don’t reference Chris’s gender, per se but they do talk about the fact that he or she experimented sexually in immersive sexual fantasy. I think it might’ve been in the first book.

I’ll take your word for it that they don’t use gender identifying pronouns in the book. I completely missed it. It’s actually pretty cool if you think about it because it’s a great statement on our view of gender in the world. Really given that the character is Hayden, does their gender identity really matter? Regardless, my internal visualization of the character was male which apparently I created on my own.

How about you did you assign a gender to the lead character?

 

[nomar]

They don’t reference Chris’s gender, per se but they do talk about the fact that he or she experimented sexually in immersive sexual fantasy. I think it might’ve been in the first book.

I’ll take your word for it that they don’t use gender identifying pronouns in the book. I completely missed it. It’s actually pretty cool if you think about it because it’s a great statement on our view of gender in the world. Really given that the character is Hayden, does their gender identity really matter? Regardless, my internal visualization of the character was male which apparently I created on my own.

How about you did you assign a gender to the lead character?

I'm trying to remember but I think something made me question it -- I believe that the name (Chris Shane) plus their job (FBI agent) made me instinctively think male, but I think at some point it dawned on me that there were no signifiers as to Chris's gender. And I think I went online afterwards to see if I was crazy. And then I told my sister, who'd read it and assumed Chris was male, and blew her mind.

Here's Scalzi's explanation:

About five years ago, when I started writing Lock In, for which my upcoming novel Head On is the sequel, I decided one important thing about the protagonist, Chris Shane: I decided that I would not know, and would not seek to know, Chris’ gender...

Chris is a Haden and presents in a threep, and threeps are not (necessarily) gendered. So when people encounter Chris out in the world, they would not know if Chris is male, or female, or non-binary, or other, unless Chris chose to say. My feeling is that Chris wouldn’t say—even to me. Because it’s not necessarily anyone else’s business. So there’s that.

But another reason is that I thought that Hadens, because of various aspects of how they interact with the world and how they interact with each other, would not necessarily always place the same emphasis on gender that other humans might traditionally do.

Hadens, Chris Shane, Gender and Me - Tor/Forge Blog

When it came to writing Lock In and Head On, John Scalzi decided that the gender of his protagonist was a mystery, even to him.

www.torforgeblog.com

And this is cool:

Lock In is a science fiction police procedural novel by American writer John Scalzi. The book was published by Tor Books on August 26, 2014. The audiobook of the novel was released in two versions, one narrated by Wil Wheaton and the other by Amber Benson.

And, lastly, this is really interesting -- the comments even more than the article:

Lock In and the Vacuum That Gender Creates - Reactor

John Scalzi’s near-future thriller Lock In throws out plenty of larger issues to consider in regards to robotics technology: where the consciousness truly sits, the civil and legal rights of non-human humans, the definitions of disability, and how current societal expectations of class and...

www.tor.com