The Official "I Hate our Recruiting" Thread

[BlueMAB]

For the love of all things holy, this board needs to get off the Edsall train, especially in the early years.

Edsall went 4-7 with a team who won their conference, earned a home playoff game, and fought the good fight vs the eventual National Champions the season before. He then proceeded to go 3-8, 2-9, and 6-6 vs predominately 1-AA (FCS) and low level 1-A programs for the next three years. Go ahead and point to the games vs. Miami, Virginia Tech, and a sinking Iowa State team, but the vast majority of their opponents in the transition years were vs. the MTSUs, Ball States, a then recently upgraded Buffalo, Colgates, EMUs, Hofstras (discontinued in 2009), Northeasterns (voted to be discontinued the week they played, if memory serves), UNHs, URIs of the world. Edsall did not have a winning season until year 5 and in his 2nd and 3rd years, his offenses averaged scored under 20 PPG.

I am no longer outwardly defending Diaco, but Edsall may not be the most desirable comparison to be making.

Oh, and what finally turned Edsall's fortunes around? An experienced, competent QB and offensive line. Something Diaco had for about a quarter and a half, 3 years ago.

Besides missing the point entirely.....

Why pretend like Edsall wasn't at a disadvantage due to guiding a team from 1AA to 1AA competing with fewer scholarships than most of the competition those first few years?

Why pretend like once the upgrade was complete and we officially joined the Big East (a year earlier than originally planned) he didn't finish his 7 year career in the Big East with a 50-37 overall record with 2 conference championships?

Does Edsall not get credit for recruiting those OL and RBs and a competent QB to help turn it around?

Diaco's lack of an OL is his fault. Shirreffs, behind that terrible OL, and with very little support in the run game, is arguably as good as any starter we've had since Dan O. If he's below Frazer and Lorenzen, it's splitting hairs.

Edsall won more games, against a tougher schedule, with Bonislawski and DJ Hernandez at QB.

Edsall spent 12 years at UConn, you're going to have to accept that he will be used as a reference point.

 

[sportsart]

We aren't recruiting like a mid-major G5, we're being outrecruited by UMass, Texas State, South Alabama, Troy, the entire AAC, Toledo, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, MTSU, FAU, Georgia Southern.

Seriously, over the top bullspit. Please show me the trend of us losing recruits to these schools. One here or there but most I've never seen a commit go to over us.

As for attacking anyone about the entitled part of my thread, that was not an attack. People are whining about losing recruits to MAC schools and other AAC schools that are better than us.

My point is this. We are not a good program so don't expect to beat schools in the MAC and AAC that are doing better than us. Forget about P5 offers. No need to even go down the road anymore. (don't tell me people aren't because they are) People need to let go of the Big East history. Those days are over, period, end of story. That is a fact, not an attack on anyone.

Please stop twisting my words and move on. I know I'm not a favorite of yours but you can just stop already. I haven't attacked you so let it go.

 

[Pudge]

For the love of all things holy, this board needs to get off the Edsall train, especially in the early years.

Edsall went 4-7 with a team who won their conference, earned a home playoff game, and fought the good fight vs the eventual National Champions the season before. He then proceeded to go 3-8, 2-9, and 6-6 vs predominately 1-AA (FCS) and low level 1-A programs for the next three years. Go ahead and point to the games vs. Miami, Virginia Tech, and a sinking Iowa State team, but the vast majority of their opponents in the transition years were vs. the MTSUs, Ball States, a then recently upgraded Buffalo, Colgates, EMUs, Hofstras (discontinued in 2009), Northeasterns (voted to be discontinued the week they played, if memory serves), UNHs, URIs of the world. Edsall did not have a winning season until year 5 and in his 2nd and 3rd years, his offenses averaged scored under 20 PPG.

I am no longer outwardly defending Diaco, but Edsall may not be the most desirable comparison to be making.

Oh, and what finally turned Edsall's fortunes around? An experienced, competent QB and offensive line. Something Diaco had for about a quarter and a half, 3 years ago.

This is ridiculous ... it was a freaking Start-up. The 2003 year was a total upgrade in play and results.

And that Offensive Line (Krug, Preston, Markowski, Dupree, Irwin) were all FCS type players and recruits. All year.

*I know many 0f us have watched this: Football at the FBS level is a distance from our FCS roots. It did take a full cycle of 3-5 years to finally get to recruit a higher level of kids to compete in 2005-2006.

I disagree that WE have to be far beyond in recruiting than where we were ... or where we can get. If you think we should just give up on Bigtime football ... what the hell are you doing here on this board annoying us?

 

[huskymedic]

Diaco's lack of an OL is his fault.

... yup but with a big assist from PP/GDL.

 

[BlueMAB]

Seriously, over the top bullspit. Please show me the trend of us losing recruits to these schools. One here or there but most I've never seen a commit go to over us.

Yup, totally over the top. Not one shred of evidence.

https://n.rivals. com/team_rankings/2016 (take out the spaces and paste into your browser).

Take a look at the top 100 schools. You'll see all of the schools I mentioned. You won't see UConn.

I didn't say we were losing recruits to these schools. You should stop lecturing others about reading comprehension.

We're being outrecruited by them by the only objective (and yes, fallible) measurements we have, rankings and offers.

You don't have to believe the rankings, that's fine, but don't call my post over the top BS when it's easily shown to be supported by the evidence.

God help us if someone tries to argue that UMass and Georgia Southern are getting the *bump that UConn recruits don't get just because they're UMass and Georgia Southern.

 

[BlueMAB]

... yup but with a big assist from PP/GDL.

Diaco took a dumpster fire, built a newer bigger dumpster, and promptly set it on fire.

 

[Husky25]

Besides missing the point entirely.....

Why pretend like Edsall wasn't at a disadvantage due to guiding a team from 1AA to 1AA competing with fewer scholarships than most of the competition those first few years?

That's not entirely true. As I mentioned above, UConn played more than their fair share of games vs. 1-AA opponents, whose scholarship limit is 68. UConn had the advantage over those teams by being able to fill a few more scholarships each year until they got to 85. Plus Edsall had the ADvantage of using the future BCS conference affiliation in recruiting. IIRC, UConn ended 2014 with about 60 scholarship players due to either defection or injury. Before this past season, I would have argued that Edsall actually had a better starting point than Diaco, in the condition that Former "Coach" Pasqualoni left the team.

Why pretend like once the upgrade was complete and we officially joined the Big East (a year earlier than originally planned) he didn't finish his 7 year career in the Big East with a 50-37 overall record with 2 conference championships?

UConn didn't technically enter the Big East until 2004, Edsall's 6th season. Diaco just completed his 3rd. At the end of Edsall's 3rd season he had a career record of 9-24. I'm not pretending anything. A comparison cannot be made because a comparison does not yet exist.

Does Edsall not get credit for recruiting those OL and RBs and a competent QB to help turn it around?

Not sure this has much to do with anything. Orlovsky played in 2001 as a true freshman, which was the beginning of Edsall's 3rd season. A season during which UConn went 2-9.

Diaco's lack of an OL is his fault. Shirreffs, behind that terrible OL, and with very little support in the run game, is arguably as good as any starter we've had since Dan O. If he's below Frazer and Lorenzen, it's splitting hairs.

I don't know how you can say this about Shirreffs. I wanted the kid to succeed as much, if not more than, as the next fan. Alas, as the year wore on, he showed himself to be basically a wildcat running back who can throw a short to intermediate spiral, and not very accurately. If his first read did not make himself wide freaking open by his second step dropping back, he tucked and tried to gain yards himself.

To proclaim that Shirreffs is a hair behind Frazer and Lorenzen is not exactly stepping out on a limb either. If Orlovsky is #1 on the Best UConn FBS QB list then the rest of the rankings start (and are bunched up) around #8. He's that much better than anyone else who attempted a pass over the last 17 seasons.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Shirreffs' toughness or ability to avoid a concussion, but that doesn't help him read a defense any more effectively. I'm also not saying that reading Ds is a piece of cake either. ESPN showed a number of replays from behind Tom Brady last night. There is no way this layman would have thought those receivers were as open as they appeared from the press box game camera.

Edsall won more games, against a tougher schedule, with Bonislawski and DJ Hernandez at QB.

Eh, that's a stretch at best. Bones and DJ won 9 games between them, and not one opponent ended the year with a winning record, let alone ranked. -- 2005 - Buffalo (1-10), Liberty (1-10), Army (4-7) Syracuse (1-10), USF (6-6), 2006 - URI (4-7), Indiana (5-7), Army (3-9), and Pittsburgh (6-6). UConn beat Central Florida in 2014 and Houston in 2015.

Edsall spent 12 years at UConn, you're going to have to accept that he will be used as a reference point.

Just do it appropriately. You don't get the 2008-2011 Edsall without the 1999-2003 versions.

 

[Husky25]

If you think we should just give up on Bigtime football ... what the hell are you doing here on this board annoying us?

If this is honestly directed at me, then you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[UConnJim]

Couple of points. First, we would all agree that linemen take longer to develop than skill players. Diaco's recruits are mostly Sophomores, RS-FR, or FR. Thus, we shouldn't expect much impact from Diaco's line recruits and he redshirted all of his skill players in the last class (except Williams.) Three of Diaco's line recruits: Peart, Crozier, and Oak, seem to be the better OL on the team, so that is encouraging.

Now, let's look how the AAC recruits. Here are the total number of kids signed per school over the past 5 years. (These are approximate numbers.)

Memphis: 131
Temple: 124
Cincinnati: 119
Houston: 113
SMU: 113
ECU: 111
USF: 110
Tulsa: 105
UConn: 102
Tulane: 102
UCF: 94
Navy: Navy is a special situation as they recruit 30 to 40 football players per year as it is a service academy. In 2016, they brought in 37 recruits.

Remember, you can only have 85 kids on scholarship. This is a good indicator of how much academic risk a school is willing to take on players as some signed recruits never make it to campus and it indicates how aggressive a school is willing to manage their roster. (And, some kids may only have 2 years of eligibility if they are a JUCO.) Academic issues can be a factor as to why a recruit signs with a G5 school even though they have many P5 offers. The G5 school is hoping the kid qualifies late or he will come back to the school after prepping or going JUCO. Recruiting rankings are based on quantity of recruits and quality of recruits, so the more recruits you have, the higher your recruiting rankings.

Another factor to consider is does your school recruit Preps (academic issues), JUCOs, and Transfers. Again, this is an indicator of a school's willingness to take academic and social risks on players, although some transfers are just looking for more playing time. Here are the number of such players on each AAC roster (These are approximate numbers):

Temple: 24
Houston: 21
Memphis: 18
UCF: 15
SMU: 13
Cincinnati: 12
USF: 12
ECU: 11
UConn: 4
Tulane: 2
Tulsa: 2

When I look at these numbers, I see that UConn does not take many risks on players and they try to keep players for 4 or 5 years. In other words, UConn has decided to be a development program instead of a quick fix program. (We can debate if the reason is the administration or the coaches, but UConn seems to have stricter standards.) Memphis, Temple, and Houston seem to be pulling out all the stops to get players and win football games.

 

[BlueMAB]

@Husky25
"That's not entirely true. As I mentioned above, UConn played more than their fair share of games vs. 1-AA opponents, whose scholarship limit is 68."

That's just not true. Here are the links, please tell me how many (and which) of the 46 games during the transition were against 1AA.

2000 Connecticut Huskies football team - Wikipedia
2001 Connecticut Huskies football team - Wikipedia
2002 Connecticut Huskies football team - Wikipedia
2003 Connecticut Huskies football team - Wikipedia

 

[Husky25]

@Husky25
"That's not entirely true. As I mentioned above, UConn played more than their fair share of games vs. 1-AA opponents, whose scholarship limit is 68."

That's just not true. Here are the links, please tell me how many (and which) of the 46 games during the transition were against 1AA.

2000 Connecticut Huskies football team - Wikipedia
2001 Connecticut Huskies football team - Wikipedia
2002 Connecticut Huskies football team - Wikipedia
2003 Connecticut Huskies football team - Wikipedia

I had mentioned low level 1A programs in the post at the top of the page, but it's no surprise that you focus entirely on the 1AA portion of the comment and literally ignore every other point in the response. Be that as it may, a little history: UConn's BOT voted to go Division 1A in 1997 and began steps in earnest in January 1999. Edsall was hired about a month earlier and his first 3 years included one season in Div. 1AA (1999) and the transition years (2000 and 2001). UConn was a full member (albeit, Independent) of Division 1A starting in 2002.

Other than Kentucky, UConn played a full 1AA schedule in 1999.

The 1AA teams UConn played in 2000 were Colgate, URI, USF, and Northeastern. The Low level D1A schools were Eastern Michigan, Buffalo (transitioned a year earlier), and Middle Tenn. State.

Technically, UConn's lone 2001 Div. 1AA opponent was Eastern Washington (to whom they got trounced). On the other hand, the other 10 opponents, included Buffalo (recent transition, awful MAC), Eastern Michigan (awful MAC), South Florida (recent transition, IND), Utah State (IND), and Middle Tennessee State (recent transition, Sun Belt).

Edsall went 4-7, 3-8, and 2-9 in his 1st three seasons vs. that Murderer's Row of opponents. Again, there is no 2008-2011 version of Edsall without the earlier iterations.

 

[BlueMAB]

I had mentioned low level 1A programs in the post at the top of the page, but it's no surprise that you focus entirely on the 1AA portion of the comment and literally ignore every other point in the response. Be that as it may, a little history: UConn's BOT voted to go Division 1A in 1997 and began steps in earnest in January 1999. Edsall was hired about a month earlier and his first 3 years included one season in Div. 1AA (1999) and the transition years (2000 and 2001). UConn was a full member (albeit, Independent) of Division 1A starting in 2002.

Other than Kentucky, UConn played a full 1AA schedule in 1999.

The 1AA teams UConn played in 2000 were Colgate, URI, USF, and Northeastern. The Low level D1A schools were Eastern Michigan, Buffalo (transitioned a year earlier), and Middle Tenn. State.

Technically, UConn's lone 2001 Div. 1AA opponent was Eastern Washington (to whom they got trounced). On the other hand, the other 10 opponents, included Buffalo (recent transition, awful MAC), Eastern Michigan (awful MAC), South Florida (recent transition, IND), Utah State (IND), and Middle Tennessee State (recent transition, Sun Belt).

Edsall went 4-7, 3-8, and 2-9 in his 1st three seasons vs. that Murderer's Row of opponents. Again, there is no 2008-2011 version of Edsall without the earlier iterations.

Here's what I responded to....
"That's not entirely true. As I mentioned above, UConn played more than their fair share of games vs. 1-AA opponents, whose scholarship limit is 68. UConn had the advantage over those teams by being able to fill a few more scholarships each year until they got to 85. Plus Edsall had the ADvantage of using the future BCS conference affiliation in recruiting."

You were wrong on just about everything. Like I'm sure you do, I have a life outside of the boneyard, so I picked the one thing that was easily proven false. Most of the rest is difference of opinion, so it's not worth discussing because we aren't going to change eachother's mind.

In 1999, UConn was a 1AA. So of course they played a full 1AA schedule. By his third season, he played only one 1AA, which is NOT "more than their fair share" of 1AA games. No, they didn't have an advantage over those teams.

In 2000, our first transition year we played 4 1AA teams. The "low level" qualifier isn't necessary unless you're trying to discredit what was built. We were transitioning, which by definition, is a "low level" 1A team. Maybe we had a slight advantage over those 4 teams, but not the 1A programs who were already playing at that level.

In 2001, we played 1 D1AA opponent. Every other program had been playing at a higher level than we had, even if one or two only had a 1 year head start, the rest had been there for years. That USF team went 8-3 and Leavitt was in his 5th year. That MTSU team also went 8-3. No advantage to UConn there to be had, so you're wrong on everything but the 4 games in his 2nd year. And even that point is weak at best.

Also, you're wrong about this:
"Plus Edsall had the ADvantage of using the future BCS conference affiliation in recruiting."

We weren't supposed to start playing Big East football until 2005. So at best, Edsall could tell the kids in 2000 (his 2nd year) that they'd get one year of Big East football as redshirt seniors. It wasn't until his 4th year that he could tell players earnestly that they'd get the opportunity to play in the Big East, and it still wasn't going to be for their entire career. And then Miami and Va Tech left in 2004.

Back to the original point of bringing up Edsall in these discussions. He repeatedly recruited "below our level" at the time, getting kids with MAC/CUSA and a few lower level offers. He also occasionally beat out other Big East teams for recruits. But he, and his staff, had the ability to coach those kids up. Diaco and his staff have shown no such ability. So the concern about landing kids who only have offers well below our level is exacerbated by Diaco's incompetence. If it were Edsall recruiting these kids, I wouldn't be as concerned, based on his ability.

Here's a good summary of the 2000 football season where UConn played with 70 scholarship athletes. By the last game of the season, only 46 were available due to injury.
FPM: 2000 - The beatdown-ening of UConn football

 

[Husky25]

Here's what I responded to....
"That's not entirely true. As I mentioned above, UConn played more than their fair share of games vs. 1-AA opponents, whose scholarship limit is 68. UConn had the advantage over those teams by being able to fill a few more scholarships each year until they got to 85. Plus Edsall had the ADvantage of using the future BCS conference affiliation in recruiting."

You were wrong on just about everything. Like I'm sure you do, I have a life outside of the boneyard, so I picked the one thing that was easily proven false. Most of the rest is difference of opinion, so it's not worth discussing because we aren't going to change eachother's mind.

In 1999, UConn was a 1AA. So of course they played a full 1AA schedule. By his third season, he played only one 1AA, which is NOT "more than their fair share" of 1AA games. No, they didn't have an advantage over those teams.

In 2000, our first transition year we played 4 1AA teams. The "low level" qualifier isn't necessary unless you're trying to discredit what was built. We were transitioning, which by definition, is a "low level" 1A team. Maybe we had a slight advantage over those 4 teams, but not the 1A programs who were already playing at that level.

In 2001, we played 1 D1AA opponent. Every other program had been playing at a higher level than we had, even if one or two only had a 1 year head start, the rest had been there for years. That USF team went 8-3 and Leavitt was in his 5th year. That MTSU team also went 8-3. No advantage to UConn there to be had, so you're wrong on everything but the 4 games in his 2nd year. And even that point is weak at best.

Also, you're wrong about this:
"Plus Edsall had the ADvantage of using the future BCS conference affiliation in recruiting."

We weren't supposed to start playing Big East football until 2005. So at best, Edsall could tell the kids in 2000 (his 2nd year) that they'd get one year of Big East football as redshirt seniors. It wasn't until his 4th year that he could tell players earnestly that they'd get the opportunity to play in the Big East, and it still wasn't going to be for their entire career. And then Miami and Va Tech left in 2004.

Back to the original point of bringing up Edsall in these discussions. He repeatedly recruited "below our level" at the time, getting kids with MAC/CUSA and a few lower level offers. He also occasionally beat out other Big East teams for recruits. But he, and his staff, had the ability to coach those kids up. Diaco and his staff have shown no such ability. So the concern about landing kids who only have offers well below our level is exacerbated by Diaco's incompetence. If it were Edsall recruiting these kids, I wouldn't be as concerned, based on his ability.

Here's a good summary of the 2000 football season where UConn played with 70 scholarship athletes. By the last game of the season, only 46 were available due to injury.
FPM: 2000 - The beatdown-ening of UConn football

Does any of that justify the fact that Edsall went 4-7, 3-8, and 2-9 his first three years?

 

[BlueMAB]

Does any of that justify the fact that Edsall went 4-7, 3-8, and 2-9 his first three years?

Yes. Yes it does.

 

[Husky25]

Yes. Yes it does.

See? It doesn't.

If you are going to make Edsall a point for comparison, it must be to a comparable time frame. Otherwise it is an apples and oranges comp. That has been my point in every single post in this thread. St. Randall is not the Vince Lombardi-like figure he has been made out to be.

"You are what your record says you are." - Bill Parcells...and Edsall regressed in each of his first three seasons. UConn was on their way to another awful year in 2002, but a four game win streak to end the season pulled them back to even and likely saved Edsall's job.

 

[BlueMAB]

See? It doesn't.

If you are going to make Edsall a point for comparison, it must be to a comparable time frame. Otherwise it is an apples and oranges comp. That has been my point in every single post in this thread. St. Randall is not the Vince Lombardi-like figure he has been made out to be.

"You are what your record says you are." - Bill Parcells...and Edsall regressed in each of his first three seasons. UConn was on their way to another awful year in 2002, but a four game win streak to end the season pulled them back to even and likely saved Edsall's job.

Ahhhh, okay. So this is about you pretending somebody here called Edsall a saint, or Lombardi-esque.

Now that you've moved the goalposts, can you quote that post?

I'll wait.

While you're looking back over the thread, do me a favor and quote the post where I brought up Diaco's record. My criticism is that he can neither recruit for this level, nor coach players up. Since his recruits aren't seeing the field, and aren't having an impact, I'd love for you to explain why that's wrong without having to pretend like I said Edsall was Vince Lombardi.

But if we do compare their first three years. Edsall still did a better job considering what he had to work with. With the stadium and the facilities, Diaco has much more to work with than Edsall did his first three years. Doesn't make him Vince Lombardi, just a better coach than Diaco.

All of that said, it's very ironic that you're lecturing about apples to apples comparison, while saying Edsall regressed over his first three years, after being proven demonstrably false about the competition over the first three years. His second and third seasons faced tougher and tougher schedules, no matter how much you pretend that's not true, the fact they went from all 1AA opponents, to four 1AA opponents, to one 1AA opponent is proof right there.

 

[Husky25]

Ahhhh, okay. So this is about you pretending somebody here called Edsall a saint, or Lombardi-esque.

Now that you've moved the goalposts, can you quote that post?

I'll wait.

I never said that anyone specifically said it. I said he was made out to be that way. It's an implication.

im·pli·ca·tion
ˌimpləˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun

1. 1.
   the conclusion that can be drawn from something, although it is not explicitly stated.
   "the implication is that no one person at the bank is responsible"
   synonyms: suggestion, insinuation, innuendo, hint, intimation, imputation
   "he was smarting at their implication"

The seemingly constant comparisons between now and how UConn football was under Edsall does the trick for me. I'm not the one moving the goalpost. Your comprehension and, by extension, interpretation of what I wrote is slightly off center.

While you're looking back over the thread, do me a favor and quote the post where I brought up Diaco's record. My criticism is that he can neither recruit for this level, nor coach players up. Since his recruits aren't seeing the field, and aren't having an impact, I'd love for you to explain why that's wrong without having to pretend like I said Edsall was Vince Lombardi.

I'm not defending Diaco. In fact, I explicitly state (as opposed to implying it) that is not my intention. My intent was to correct the perception of Edsall (falling, apparently, on deaf ears). Edsall had a winning record at UConn, but it took him eight full seasons to make up for the hole he was in after year 3. However, at 9-24, there was barely any evidence that Edsall "could recruit for [that] level, [or] coach players up" either.

But if we do compare their first three years. Edsall still did a better job considering what he had to work with. With the stadium and the facilities, Diaco has much more to work with than Edsall did his first three years. Doesn't make him Vince Lombardi, just a better coach than Diaco.

I've already addressed this and I disagree.

Be that as it may, this is like talking to a wall and this is likely my last response on this front.

 

[BlueMAB]

I said Edsall could recruit under the radar players and win, but couldn't get us over the hump, and from that you get "Vince Lombardi"? This is a "you" problem.

You're incorrectly inferring things based on assumptions, and you're refusing to admit that many of the "facts" you provided were disproved.

But sure, "talking to a wall", yada yada yada.

 

[huskyblooz]

Zach Davis is the fastest human being I've ever seen live in any sport. If this staff can't find a way to use him, then they're morons.
Nico Ragini is the 2nd best player in the state, behind Ben Mason. Rumor is he's second guessing himself about his lacrosse commit and is leaning toward playing football in college. Close to a Wisconsin offer.
And if we're going to get 6'7" 260 lb OL, then Conley is a pretty athletic in New Canaan. Little brother will be better.