The Official Big East is Poverty Thread | Page 5 | The Boneyard

The Official Big East is Poverty Thread

My bet is 4th ahead of the ACC. Also, I think the Big 12 (#3 league) will be closer to us than top two.

I accept this reality. 3rd/4th/5th best league is still powerful enough to produce great programs that can win national championships.

So, unless Connecticut gets invited to a Football-4 league (which would be great obv.) we remain in the best position we can possibly be at the moment
 
I have mentioned before in other threads that there are to many D1 schools and way to many conferences. All leagues should have a minimum of 16 schools.

But talking about the Big East again I said and agree to the previous poster that said that we should expand. St Louis and Dayton would be welcomed.

As for schools merging here in Connecticut I would suggest that Fairfield and Sacred Heart do that. They are only a handful of miles apart. You would have a school with 20,000 students. And a school that offers countless sports for both men and women.
those two schools have vastly different academics, Fairfield's acceptance rate is something like 25% (I think it might even be 22%), while Sacred Heart pretty much admits anyone.
 
The problem with state college systems across the country is that they were created by politicians for political reasons (local pride, employment) not educational need.

If you are really a 1968 SU grad, then you know that is wrong. The accessibility of affordable college educations was huge for a lot of young people of your generation, and the schools popped up where the people were. But times change. State schools were a backup in the Northeast for several decades after the War. As private schools got more expensive, and technology advanced rapidly, a classical "liberal arts" education lost a lot of its value. Some state schools were early to engineering and technology, and they became a lot more attractive to high school grades starting in the 80's.

Those SUNY branches, and a lot of the regional liberal arts schools, made more sense when NY was like 25% of the nation's GDP. The nation has moved west and south, and now the college age population is shrinking. It has become a knife fight for survival for a lot of schools.

The only place I would criticize the government is in the student loan programs for the last 30 years. These encouraged kids who might not have been ready for or even appropriate for college to get degrees of questionable value. Many schools would keep these marginal students for the tuition and park them in liberal arts majors like English, Sociology and Anthropology. History and Poli Sci were not quite as bad because they were usually structured as pre-law and were generally more demanding. English should be the hardest major on campus, not the easiest, because you better be really good if you want to make a career as an English major.

I also think they should have structured the loan programs based on achievement, and discouraged kids from majors that had questionable economic value in the job market. Instead, kids went deeply into debt for low value degrees, and they also pushed the price of tuition up for everyone by creating artificial demand. Now that demand is declining, and colleges have a lot of overcapacity.
 
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If you are really a 1968 SU grad, then you know that is wrong. The accessibility of affordable college educations was huge for a lot of young people of your generation, and the schools popped up where the people were. But times change. State schools were a backup in the Northeast for several decades after the War. As private schools got more expensive, and technology advanced rapidly, a classical "liberal arts" education lost a lot of its value. Some state schools were early to engineering and technology, and they became a lot more attractive to high school grades starting in the 80's.

Those SUNY branches, and a lot of the regional liberal arts schools, made more sense when NY was like 25% of the nation's GDP. The nation has moved west and south, and now the college age population is shrinking. It has become a knife fight for survival for a lot of schools.

The only place I would criticize the government is in the student loan programs for the last 30 years. These encouraged kids who might not have been ready for or even appropriate for college to get degrees of questionable value. Many schools would keep these marginal students for the tuition and park them in liberal arts majors like English, Sociology and Anthropology. History and Poli Sci were not quite as bad because they were usually structured as pre-law and were generally more demanding. English should be the hardest major on campus, not the easiest, because you better be really good if you want to make a career as an English major.

I also think they should have structured the loan programs based on achievement, and discouraged kids from majors that had questionable economic value in the job market. Instead, kids went deeply into debt for low value degrees, and they also pushed the price of tuition up for everyone by creating artificial demand. Now that demand is declining, and colleges have a lot of overcapacity.
Not to take this further off track, but the problem was also that a lot of majors now considered "low value" now were not at the time -- it used to be the case that any college degree was thought to provide skills necessary for generic white collar work and be a reasonable pathway to stable employment. That's not the case anymore.
 

Thank you Val for recreating a legendary conference from the ground-up again when everyone left it for dead. Absolutely everyone back then thought and hoped the Big East 2.0 experiment with an up-start Fox Sport 1/2 networks, and lacking big-time football was doomed for failure. It was expected to disappear from existence really quickly. I remember attending the 2014, 2015 Big East Tournament for all-sessions and how it struggled to fill up MSG like they old days. Even on this fan board - the hate for the Big East 2.0, NBE, etc was at all-time high!

The football leagues attacked the BET conference tournament by hosting in Barclays (ACC) and by hosting a week before at MSG (B1G) only for both to fail and retreat back to their respective regions. They tried to break up the BIGEAST / MSG contract only to fail also.

But the Big East rose back again and it has produced 4 National Champions since then. By any metric - That is IMPRESSIVE.

She deserves her retirement and I hope the next executive can maintain/improve the quality of the league long-term
 
Thank you Val for recreating a legendary conference from the ground-up again when everyone left it for dead. Absolutely everyone back then thought and hoped the Big East 2.0 experiment with an up-start Fox Sport 1/2 networks, and lacking big-time football was doomed for failure. It was expected to disappear from existence really quickly. I remember attending the 2014, 2015 Big East Tournament for all-sessions and how it struggled to fill up MSG like they old days. Even on this fan board - the hate for the Big East 2.0, NBE, etc was at all-time high!

The football leagues attacked the BET conference tournament by hosting in Barclays (ACC) and by hosting a week before at MSG (B1G) only for both to fail and retreat back to their respective regions. They tried to break up the BIGEAST / MSG contract only to fail also.

But the Big East rose back again and it has produced 4 National Champions since then. By any metric - That is IMPRESSIVE.

She deserves her retirement and I hope the next executive can maintain/improve the quality of the league long-term
I’m not really sure she deserves credit for Jim Calhoun, Jay Wright, Kevin Ollie and Dan Hurley, but I I’ll say, I’m glad the Big East is still a national player. I love it and it brings back so many great memories for me.

The next commissioner needs to have more forward thinking and he/she needs to be aggressive and outspoken. The new commish also needs the refs to be clear, if they keep trying to kill the golden goose, they will be the turkey.
 
I’m not really sure she deserves credit for Jim Calhoun, Jay Wright, Kevin Ollie and Dan Hurley, but I I’ll say, I’m glad the Big East is still a national player. I love it and it brings back so many great memories for me.

The next commissioner needs to have more forward thinking and he/she needs to be aggressive and outspoken. The new commish also needs the refs to be clear, if they keep trying to kill the golden goose, they will be the turkey.
@Hoophound What? Those are coaches that have their own respective jobs. I don't get your point.

Jim Calhoun and Kevin Ollie never even coached in the re-chartered Big East. So your point makes no sense and I made no mention of them.

She does deserve due credit for the critical years of 2014-18 which successfully re-launched a conference after a brutal split and frontal attacks from the ACC/B1G to destroy the Big East Tournament. A conference that was left for dead to average 5.6 (out of 10 teams) bids over the first five years is a huge comeback.

Then she makes a great addition by negotiating UConn's return.

That's a good job under any metric.
 
@Hoophound What? Those are coaches that have their own respective jobs. I don't get your point.

Jim Calhoun and Kevin Ollie never even coached in the re-chartered Big East. So your point makes no sense and I made no mention of them.

She does deserve due credit for the critical years of 2014-18 which successfully re-launched a conference after a brutal split and frontal attacks from the ACC/B1G to destroy the Big East Tournament. A conference that was left for dead to average 5.6 (out of 10 teams) bids over the first five years is a huge comeback.

Then she makes a great addition by negotiating UConn's return.

That's a good job under any metric.


The Big East has greatly benefitted from Jim Calhoun and KO winning titles because the Big East has UConn now. Anyone looking at the last 15 years gives the Big East credit for all 4 of UConn’s titles during that time. Our time in the American didnt happen for anyone in this country except for the traumatized UConn fans.

Ultimately, if Nova doesn’t have Jay Wright and then Dan Hurley doesn’t come to UConn, the Big East would be dead. I can’t see Val getting credit for any of it. She didn’t bring those guys here and she’s done nothing to help them. If anything, she’s allowed the refs to trash us. As far as media deals go, she simply took what was offered. Nothing progressive on that front at all.
 
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Yormark and Swofford, and two a lesser extent Tranghese, are the only conference commissioners of the last 30 years that made a bit of difference.

1) Swofford's ACC's raid of the Big East in 2002 was ruthless and the rest of college basketball, and especially the Big East, were not ready for it. In hindsight, the Big East should have been raiding the ACC.

2) Tranghese pivoted quickly and helped save the conference, although the lawsuit and the fear of further anti-trust legal action deserves most of the credit.

3) Yormark made a similar glove save convincing his network partners and the rest of the college sports world that adding BYU, Houston, Cincinnati and UCF as replacements for Texas and Oklahoma meant the Big 12 was still a major conference. The Pac 12 should have eaten the Big 12's lunch right there.

Other than that, you could have had a cat as conference commissioner of the leagues and the outcome would have been the same. The Big 10 and SEC were always going to win as long as the commissioners didn't do anything really stupid.
 
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The Big East has greatly benefitted from Jim Calhoun and KO winning titles because the Big East has UConn now. Anyone looking at the last 15 years gives the Big East credit for all 4 of UConn’s titles.

Ultimately, if Nova doesn’t have Jay Wright and then Dan Hurley doesn’t come to UConn, the Big East would be dead. I can’t see Val getting credit for any of it.

Do you understand that no one saw Big East 2.0 as connected to the original Big East back in 2014? No one thought the new Big East had any relation to UConn. UConn and all the powers had left. It was a conference left for dead.

The Big East Tournament wasn't even taken serious back in 2014 and didn't sell out a single session as no one thought this new iteration of the Big East was worth watching.

Not sure how you think that Jim Calhoun and Kevin Ollie (winning his title in the American Athletic in 2014) were the drivers of the return of the Big East 2.0 to the top tier of College basketball. It makes no sense whatsoever. The return of the Big East 2.0 to a respectable level was led by the members schools - Villanova, Creighton, Providence, Xavier, Seton Hall
 
@Hoophound What? Those are coaches that have their own respective jobs. I don't get your point.

Jim Calhoun and Kevin Ollie never even coached in the re-chartered Big East. So your point makes no sense and I made no mention of them.

She does deserve due credit for the critical years of 2014-18 which successfully re-launched a conference after a brutal split and frontal attacks from the ACC/B1G to destroy the Big East Tournament. A conference that was left for dead to average 5.6 (out of 10 teams) bids over the first five years is a huge comeback.

Then she makes a great addition by negotiating UConn's return.

That's a good job under any metric.
Not sure she deserves fan fare. Big East is still weak and its stature has fallen against other BB leagues. The league needs a visionary that can take advantage of the leagues assets, which Val did not do.
 
Do you understand that no one saw Big East 2.0 as connected to the original Big East back in 2014? No one thought the new Big East had any relation to UConn. UConn and all the powers had left. It was a conference left for dead.

The Big East Tournament wasn't even taken serious back in 2014 and didn't sell out a single session as no one thought this new iteration of the Big East was worth watching.

Not sure how you think that Jim Calhoun and Kevin Ollie (winning his title in the American Athletic in 2014) were the drivers of the return of the Big East 2.0 to the top tier of College basketball. It makes no sense whatsoever. The return of the Big East 2.0 to a respectable level was led by the members schools - Villanova, Creighton, Providence, Xavier, Seton Hall
Nah. UConn and Nova are the reason the Big East is a power conference today, and that rep is fading quickly. I live in SEC/ACC country. Nobody thinks about UConn as being anything but a member of the Big East. When we were in the American, no one even knew it around here. You are giving the rest of the Big East way too much credit. No one cares. It’s UConn, Nova and everyone else. 25 year old sports fans I work with have no idea who St John’s is and why Pitino even went there.
 
Nah. UConn and Nova are the reason the Big East is a power conference today, and that rep is fading quickly. I live in SEC/ACC country. Nobody thinks about UConn as being anything but a member of the Big East. When we were in the American, no one even knew it around here. You are giving the rest of the Big East way too much credit. No one cares. It’s UConn, Nova and everyone else. 25 year old sports fans I work with have no idea who St John’s is and why Pitino even went there.
This is 90% true, although with Pitino it's now UConn and St John's and nobody else. Willard wanted to "fire his entire staff" because he sucks and they suck too.

Until Nova and GTown get back to where they should be, this conference will continue to suffer...
 
This is 90% true, although with Pitino it's now UConn and St John's and nobody else. Willard wanted to "fire his entire staff" because he sucks and they suck too.

Until Nova and GTown get back to where they should be, this conference will continue to suffer...

lol. Yeah. I think young fans think St John’s is like a St Mary’s or something, but with even less history. They have no idea St John’s was big time. When I tell them, they go, “Oh, so that’s why Pitino went there? It makes sense now.”
 
Thank you Val for recreating a legendary conference from the ground-up again when everyone left it for dead. Absolutely everyone back then thought and hoped the Big East 2.0 experiment with an up-start Fox Sport 1/2 networks, and lacking big-time football was doomed for failure. It was expected to disappear from existence really quickly. I remember attending the 2014, 2015 Big East Tournament for all-sessions and how it struggled to fill up MSG like they old days. Even on this fan board - the hate for the Big East 2.0, NBE, etc was at all-time high!

The football leagues attacked the BET conference tournament by hosting in Barclays (ACC) and by hosting a week before at MSG (B1G) only for both to fail and retreat back to their respective regions. They tried to break up the BIGEAST / MSG contract only to fail also.

But the Big East rose back again and it has produced 4 National Champions since then. By any metric - That is IMPRESSIVE.

She deserves her retirement and I hope the next executive can maintain/improve the quality of the league long-term

She was overpaid and totally ineffective.
 
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lol. Yeah. I think young fans think St John’s is like a St Mary’s or something, but with even less history. They have no idea St John’s was big time. When I tell them, they go, “Oh, so that’s why Pitino went there? It makes sense now.”
We still have a bigger portion of NYC than they do...
 

Great write up.

It seems like people quickly forget how bad in shape the Big East 2.0 was. How everyone wanted it to die. How no one took the league seriously the first year. The way it disappeared from Mainstream television and was burried in an upstart FS1 network with low subscribers count.

It's really impressive how quickly people forget!!!

Then you had the schools from the American Athletic that wanted the Big East 2.0 experiment to fail so that the American could be the Power-6. The Boneyarders should re-visit the old threads (if they are still there?!?) and see all the poop that was spoken against the nBE back in the day.
 
Great write up.

It seems like people quickly forget how bad in shape the Big East 2.0 was. How everyone wanted it to die. How no one took the league seriously the first year. The way it disappeared from Mainstream television and was burried in an upstart FS1 network with low subscribers count.

It's really impressive how quickly people forget!!!

Then you had the schools from the American Athletic that wanted the Big East 2.0 experiment to fail so that the American could be the Power-6. The Boneyarders should re-visit the old threads (if they are still there?!?) and see all the poop that was spoken against the nBE back in the day.
Let’s be honest. It’s still poop.
3 bids to tourney with 2 in same region is not ‘Power’….
Anyone that thinks this league without UConn is vastly different from A-10 is delusional.
Sure Nova, G’Town and St Johns have history. But it’s not translating to today. Only St Johns is actively competing today.
 
if she had just quietly stopped coming to work, would anyone have noticed?
I mean, other than the gradual improvement by not having her there, probably not.
 
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Do you understand that no one saw Big East 2.0 as connected to the original Big East back in 2014?
I don't. In fact, the entire marketing plan for the new startup conference that bought the name "the big east" seemed to be to pretend that it was the original big east. Honestly, it's been successful.

I don't know that I view that as a genius move by Ackerman so much as a strategic blunder by Aresco whose entire marketing plan seem to be stolen from the Conference USA playbook. Ironically enough, he was ultimately successful and managed to re-create it. The problem is it wasn't any more successful for the American then it was for CUSA.
 
Let’s be honest. It’s still poop.
3 bids to tourney with 2 in same region is not ‘Power’….
Anyone that thinks this league without UConn is vastly different from A-10 is delusional.
Sure Nova, G’Town and St Johns have history. But it’s not translating to today. Only St Johns is actively competing today.

The conference has notably regressed since 2020 in its production of NCAA bids and in the conference rankins. But in the key formative first 5 year period (2014-18) the league did a great job sending over half of its team to the NCAAs.

For some reason that decline in the league coincides with the arrival of Connecticut. I wonder if the rise and dominance of UCONN has in a way adversely affected the rest of the league. Or maybe the cause of the decline is due to the national landscape (NIL, $$$, Football conference consolidation)?

Whatever it is I hope the next commissioner can successfully navigate the Big East through this difficult NIL/football-led era.

I don't expect the Big East to ever again be the #1 NET conference at this point. I think it would be extremely difficult for the league to pull that off and requires vast amount of resources. But I do hope the league can compete for that #3/#4 spot year after year which is still pretty darn good. I just don't want the league to be locked-in into the 5th spot.
 
I don't. In fact, the entire marketing plan for the new startup conference that bought the name "the big east" seemed to be to pretend that it was the original big east. Honestly, it's been successful.

I don't know that I view that as a genius move by Ackerman so much as a strategic blunder by Aresco whose entire marketing plan seem to be stolen from the Conference USA playbook. Ironically enough, he was ultimately successful and managed to re-create it. The problem is it wasn't any more successful for the American then it was for CUSA.

You must have short memory. Doesn't surprise me. People tend to forget quickly and conveniently move-on.

But if you transport yourself back to 2014 the landscape was vastly different... Keep in mind that the Big East 2.0 lacked the elite programs of UCONN, SYRACUSE, WEST VIRGINIA, LOUISVILLE, PITTSBURGH, NOTRE DAME, CINCINNATI. Those programs were the leaders of the Big East prior to break up.

So yeah. The Big East 2.0 was surely trying to pretend it was the old one. But NO ONE for one second believed them back then. Every one knew this league lacked the fire power.

The Big East 2.0 had to earn it's reputation back brick by brick and it was cemented with that Villanova championship in 2016.

The crazy thing is that a lot of the programs that left have since somewhat declined - think Syracuse, West Virginia, Pitt, ND, Louisville, etc
 
You must have short memory. Doesn't surprise me. People tend to forget quickly and conveniently move-on.

But if you transport yourself back to 2014 the landscape was vastly different... Keep in mind that the Big East 2.0 lacked the elite programs of UCONN, SYRACUSE, WEST VIRGINIA, LOUISVILLE, PITTSBURGH, NOTRE DAME, CINCINNATI. Those programs were the leaders of the Big East prior to break up.

So yeah. The Big East 2.0 was surely trying to pretend it was the old one. But NO ONE for one second believed them back then. Every one knew this league lacked the fire power.

The Big East 2.0 had to earn it's reputation back brick by brick and it was cemented with that Villanova championship in 2016.

The crazy thing is that a lot of the programs that left have since somewhat declined - think Syracuse, West Virginia, Pitt, ND, Louisville, etc
Yeah, that's just not reality based.

The entire reason why the Catholic seven purchased the name of the big east was so it could hold onto the success in branding of the original conference. Otherwise, why spend millions to buy another conference's branding, right?
 
Yeah, that's just not reality based.

The entire reason why the Catholic seven purchased the name of the big east was so it could hold onto the success in branding of the original conference. Otherwise, why spend millions to buy another conference's branding, right?


Who is saying otherwise? We both agree. They definitely were betting on the branding helping them out. My disagreement with you lies on whether on year-1/2 anyone out there bought this "Big East 2.0 is just as good as the old one". Everyone knew it was B.S.

The league had to prove it in the field for the next five years for the casual fans and media to buy in and give this Big East respect as major player in CBB.

That CBS Sports article goes in pretty good depth about this same subject
 
Who is saying otherwise? We both agree. They definitely were betting on the branding helping them out. My disagreement with you lies on whether on year-1/2 anyone out there bought this "Big East 2.0 is just as good as the old one". Everyone knew it was B.S.

The league had to prove it in the field for the next five years for the casual fans and media to buy in and give this Big East respect as major player in CBB.

That CBS Sports article goes in pretty good depth about this same subject

I don't know that the league has proven itself to be as good as everyone else. Certainly the market would say not, given that their media distribution rights are just pennies on the dollar of what the P4 receive.

The fact that the big east struggles to get more than two schools into the postseason tournament is another tangible indication that the conference isn't particularly well respected. Both the men's and women's teams load up with challenging preseason games to make up for the fact that our conference games are not considered to be quality opponents.

The woman's team caught a lot of heat during the season as being relatively untested in conference play. For the men's team, the conference schedule is essentially a mind field, where a win does not produce much tangible benefit, but a loss is devastating.
 
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