The Official Big East is Poverty Thread

[nelsonmuntz]

Sounds good in theory, but the better option for a school like Xavier is probably to try and stick it out and hope the others close. The really small Catholic schools are struggling even more as I understand it. I was reading the other day that St Michael's in Vermont might only have a few years left. That was a very healthy and desirable school 25 years ago.

Xavier will fail if it follows that plan.

There is a principle in banking and capital markets, but it kind of works for everything, that no one can survive a run on the bank. Once that doom loop starts, you generally don't come out. If Xavier is at risk of failing, it is already failing. They should be working with Dayton or someone to start combining operations, because it is not going to survive as an independent.

 

[Hoophound]

Xavier will fail if it follows that plan.

There is a principle in banking and capital markets, but it kind of works for everything, that no one can survive a run on the bank. Once that doom loop starts, you generally don't come out. If Xavier is at risk of failing, it is already failing. They should be working with Dayton or someone to start combining operations, because it is not going to survive as an independent.

I understand, but how does a merger of these two schools really work? They are an hour apart. I'm assuming you are thinking that they would eliminate one set of administrators and have overlapping faculty commuting between the campuses, but that seems like too much to overcome. If you close one of the campuses, that's not much of a merger. Its more of a liquidation.

I would think it would only work if you merged schools that were close enough together to function under one administration and with campuses close enough together for students to use both in a given day. Like merging Trinity in Hartford and St Joe's in West Hartford, something like that. Another thing that might work would be if one of the campuses became the medical school or grad school or whatever.

Unfortunately, most mediocre private schools aren't going to make it and the likely financial crisis that is looming is only going to expedite it. Realistically, the only way Xavier makes it is with massive fundraising efforts and some good breaks along the way. Aside from private schools taking a beating, growth doesn't seem to be a strong point of the church either.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I understand, but how does a merger of these two schools really work? They are an hour apart. I'm assuming you are thinking that they would eliminate one set of administrators and have overlapping faculty commuting between the campuses, but that seems like too much to overcome. If you close one of the campuses, that's not much of a merger. Its more of a liquidation.

I would think it would only work if you merged schools that were close enough together to function under one administration and with campuses close enough together for students to use both in a given day. Like merging Trinity in Hartford and St Joe's in West Hartford, something like that. Another thing that might work would be if one of the campuses became the medical school or grad school or whatever.

Unfortunately, most mediocre private schools aren't going to make it and the likely financial crisis that is looming is only going to expedite it. Realistically, the only way Xavier makes it is with massive fundraising efforts and some good breaks along the way. Aside from private schools taking a beating, growth doesn't seem to be a strong point of the church either.

There are a lot of small schools that have done this. Goodwin and University of Bridgeport, for example.

Why would anyone fund a business that has no chance of surviving as a business? I am not an education expert, but obviously there would be a consolidation of administrations, which would save a lot of money. They would also consolidate certain disciplines into one campus or the other.

Or they can all fail. Their call.

 

[dd356]

Census Enrollment Statistics. If you look at the Xavier freshman class, ie "by class", only 451 students. Barely 40 percent of their senior class count. They are losing money without a doubt. That isn't sustainable. Kind of hard to justify spending millions on basketball with those numbers.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Census Enrollment Statistics. If you look at the Xavier freshman class, ie "by class", only 451 students. Barely 40 percent of their senior class count. They are losing money without a doubt. That isn't sustainable. Kind of hard to justify spending millions on basketball with those numbers.

It would probably only take a 10-15% drop in enrollment to tip over a large state school. Keep an eye on WVU.

The Connecticut State University system needs to shrink. Central and Southern are 35 miles apart. Don’t need both.

 

[shizzle787]

It would probably only take a 10-15% drop in enrollment to tip over a large state school. Keep an eye on WVU.

The Connecticut State University system needs to shrink. Central and Southern are 35 miles apart. Don’t need both.

Western is the school that probably needs to fold. 3,500 enrollment and a lot of Jersey and New York. They are not staying in Danbury after graduation.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Western is the school that probably needs to fold. 3,500 enrollment and a lot of Jersey and New York. They are not staying in Danbury after graduation.

I am fine with that. A lot of WestConn students are remote too. I have a couple of extended family that went recently. A lot of online classes. There can still be a satellite campus, but it does not need to be a separate school.

Higher education has operated in a bubble, and still works fundamentally the same way it has for about 250+ years. A major overhaul is overdue.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Western is the school that probably needs to fold. 3,500 enrollment and a lot of Jersey and New York. They are not staying in Danbury after graduation.

Make Eastern a part of UConn, combine Central, Southern and downgrade Western to a state college. A state with CT's size and population density doesn't need five universities in the state university system.

 

[shizzle787]

Make Eastern a part of UConn, combine Central, Southern and downgrade Western to a state college. A state with CT's size and population density doesn't need five universities in the state university system.

I would argue make Danbury a branch of UConn

 

[Exit 4]

It would probably only take a 10-15% drop in enrollment to tip over a large state school. Keep an eye on WVU.

The Connecticut State University system needs to shrink. Central and Southern are 35 miles apart. Don’t need both.

It pains me to agree with you....but I do. Strange times.

CT would be very smart to get ahead of our modern higher ed realities. We don't need all of these campuses. Need to consolidate.

 

[UConn Dan]

It pains me to agree with you....but I do. Strange times.

CT would be very smart to get ahead of our modern higher ed realities. We don't need all of these campuses. Need to consolidate.

Disagree. The CT state university system are largely commuter schools. Decreasing access to higher education within the state thwarts economic development.

 

[Rufus]

Disagree. The CT state university system are largely commuter schools. Decreasing access to higher education within the state thwarts economic development.

Exactly!

 

[Chin Diesel]

Disagree. The CT state university system are largely commuter schools. Decreasing access to higher education within the state thwarts economic development.

Reduce the directionals to a state college and use them as feeders to 2-3 state universities. With online classes there is as much need for infrastructure, whether it be dorms, classrooms, or support buildings.

 

[Chuck]

I understand, but how does a merger of these two schools really work? They are an hour apart. I'm assuming you are thinking that they would eliminate one set of administrators and have overlapping faculty commuting between the campuses, but that seems like too much to overcome. If you close one of the campuses, that's not much of a merger. Its more of a liquidation.

I would think it would only work if you merged schools that were close enough together to function under one administration and with campuses close enough together for students to use both in a given day. Like merging Trinity in Hartford and St Joe's in West Hartford, something like that. Another thing that might work would be if one of the campuses became the medical school or grad school or whatever.

This is apparently becoming a thing. Elon just "merged" with Queens University of Charlotte. They aren't particularly close to each other. It sounds like Elon will use Queens' proximity to the bigger city as an asset. Other schools are deliberately setting up campuses in diverse areas. Northeastern has a number of campuses now.

 

[JwittersPAC]

It would probably only take a 10-15% drop in enrollment to tip over a large state school. Keep an eye on WVU.

The Connecticut State University system needs to shrink. Central and Southern are 35 miles apart. Don’t need both.

The main state university has the full backing of the state - tax, issue bonds, etc. While small private schools do not. I can tell you which type of school I expect to fold first.

 

[Hoophound]

This is apparently becoming a thing. Elon just "merged" with Queens University of Charlotte. They aren't particularly close to each other. It sounds like Elon will use Queens' proximity to the bigger city as an asset. Other schools are deliberately setting up campuses in diverse areas. Northeastern has a number of campuses now.

What are they calling it?

 

[Chuck]

What are they calling it?

I don't think they announced the name. It sounds like Elon is really the acquirer (that's why I put "merged" in quotes). I'd guess it'll be Elon University, and the Charlotte campus will keep the Queens name associated with it, at least for a while. The good thing about the merger is I think Elon gets the Queens endowment.

 

[Stinger92860]

I am fine with that. A lot of WestConn students are remote too. I have a couple of extended family that went recently. A lot of online classes. There can still be a satellite campus, but it does not need to be a separate school.

Higher education has operated in a bubble, and still works fundamentally the same way it has for about 250+ years. A major overhaul is overdue.

Western has 2 campuses several miles apart. I never understood that.

 

[CL82]

What are they calling it?

Dancing Queens?

 

[Hoophound]

Western has 2 campuses several miles apart. I never understood that.

Isn't it the meteorology school that is in a remote location? I considered becoming a meteorologist for a minute when I was 16 or so and went to see the school.

 

[Stinger92860]

Isn't it the meteorology school that is in a remote location? I considered becoming a meteorologist for a minute when I was 16 or so and went to see the school.

Yes it is/was but years back they built sports facilities and dorms, plus at least one academic building. I have not been there in many years.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The main state university has the full backing of the state - tax, issue bonds, etc. While small private schools do not. I can tell you which type of school I expect to fold first.

The main state universities depends on tax dollars, and most states are in debt and maxing out their tax burden. Rich states have challenges, but poor states like West Virginia, Kentucky, and especially Oklahoma and Mississippi, with two big state schools each, need to be asking themselves what they can afford. The other problem is all of those schools are basically open admission, but also depend on a large number of out of state kids to pay full price. Why would a kid pay $42,000 to go to Mississippi State from out-of-state? OU at 110 is the only one of those schools above in the Top 150 of national universities.

Kentucky has a 93% acceptance rate and costs $55,000 for out-of-state students, and WVU is 89% and $41,000? I am sure that very few kids pay list price, but how long are kids going to continue to do that when better schools are getting easier to get into? Kentucky is still showing enrollment growth, which happens if you let everyone in, but enrollment has already started to decline at WVU. These schools are letting everyone in, because they need the revenue, but by doing that, they undermine the value of their product. The higher acceptance rates will lead to more discounting to get kids in, which will mean they need to let in more marginal students to keep the revenue level, etc. etc.

The nation does not need all of these big universities. The better schools will get more kids, and the weaker schools are going to struggle, and some of them will shut down or dramatically reduce their overhead, which will include reducing their athletic programs.

The U.S. is on the cusp of a massive realignment in higher education.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Reduce the directionals to a state college and use them as feeders to 2-3 state universities. With online classes there is as much need for infrastructure, whether it be dorms, classrooms, or support buildings.

There can still be classes in Danbury, but rather than have 4 colleges, it probably makes sense to consolidate all of them into one with satellite campuses. It would save tens of millions of dollars.

SUNY will absolutely HAVE TO DO THIS in the next 5-10 years.