The Official 2015 Mets Thread

[TheDoggPound]

Gee doesn't want to go to the BP and quite frankly he's never pitched in the BP and would have to adjust and there's no guarantee he can even accel in that role. I rather have a host of the actual BP guys we already have instead who also have posted good #'s. Also I don't see how he even factors in with the impending returns of Parnell, Black, Carylye and Mejia anyways.

Gee needs to go. Keep the 6 man rotation - trade Gee and give the 6th spot to Matz.

We'll also need to trade Harvey away before he hits FA because no way we're paying him what he'll command. We messed up with Wright but hopefully we learn this time and get a return.

 

[TheDoggPound]

I think the 6 man rotation could work...for a while. Gee was pissed about it, and I'm sure the guys all are as they are "creatures of habit." That being said once it goes through a couple times in the order I think it's a good thing for this year.

I also think Gee or Niese will be gone...preferably Niese.

Give me Niese over the guy who can't hit 90 pitches without imploding. We've outgrown Dillon Gee, he was useful 2011-14 but time to turn the page. Next year after Wheeler returns we can start thinking about moving Nie-say.

 

[mets1090]

Niese has a 1.57 whip and his FIP is 0.7 higher than Gee's. He's lucky his era is in the low 4s

 

[TheDoggPound]

When Niese isn't at his peak his performance is on par with Gee but he also has potential Gee doesn't posses and can pitch past 90 pitches / 6 innings, plus he's a lefty.

 

[8893]

We'll also need to trade Harvey away before he hits FA because no way we're paying him what he'll command. We messed up with Wright but hopefully we learn this time and get a return.

What he'll command is an increasingly open question at this point. He looked better last night than in his last two outings, but he's clearly not the ace he thought he was. I'm probably more surprised at his lack of mental toughness. By his own admission, he's not staying focused. I like him, but now I'm starting to remember the too-cocky-for-his-own-good part of him. I hope these young studs push him, because he's got to work harder and smarter now that he's got to live with the physical limitations resulting from his surgery and his year off.

 

[Alum86]

Flores is back to his old self after a great few days. A couple collars. Need him for some power on the left side of diamond.

 

[UConnMike04]

Give me Niese over the guy who can't hit 90 pitches without imploding. We've outgrown Dillon Gee, he was useful 2011-14 but time to turn the page. Next year after Wheeler returns we can start thinking about moving Nie-say.

Have you been watching Niese? Two or three games in a row he's imploded. He always implodes as soon as there's any trouble. Both are serviceable but not worth keeping around when we have better options. Gee can't stay healthy, and Niese is a mental midget.

 

[TheDoggPound]

What he'll command is an increasingly open question at this point. He looked better last night than in his last two outings, but he's clearly not the ace he thought he was. I'm probably more surprised at his lack of mental toughness. By his own admission, he's not staying focused. I like him, but now I'm starting to remember the too-cocky-for-his-own-good part of him. I hope these young studs push him, because he's got to work harder and smarter now that he's got to live with the physical limitations resulting from his surgery and his year off.

He's an Ace. He's just been off a little for a couple reasons - 1. I think he put on some additional weight in the off-season and he's been playing on a bum ankle and 2. You need 24 months from TJ to comeback to 100% and 3. He's a huge Rangers fan and probably been worried about their games more than an early season start. Now that the bums lost hopefully there's no more distractions and/or getting hammered and waking up on a start day hungover.

No way he sticks with the Mets though - he's gone first chance he gets so the Mets should be prepared to get a handsome return for him, which is something we screwed up with Wright.

 

[TheDoggPound]

Have you been watching Niese? Two or three games in a row he's imploded. He always implodes as soon as there's any trouble. Both are serviceable but not worth keeping around when we have better options. Gee can't stay healthy, and Niese is a mental midget.

I agree that he's a renegade mentally but he's still a better quality arm than Gee. Either way I think by the trade deadline next year both will be gone. I personally just think Gee is gone first to make room for Matz and we'll see Niese gone next year because I doubt the Mets want to pick up his $10M option in 2017 considering we'll have more cost effective options then and Wilpon's.

 

[8893]

He's an Ace. He's just been off a little for a couple reasons - 1. I think he put on some additional weight in the off-season and he's been playing on a bum ankle and 2. You need 24 months from TJ to comeback to 100% and 3. He's a huge Rangers fan and probably been worried about their games more than an early season start. Now that the bums lost hopefully there's no more distractions and/or getting hammered and waking up on a start day hungover.

No way he sticks with the Mets though - he's gone first chance he gets so the Mets should be prepared to get a handsome return for him, which is something we screwed up with Wright.

Well at least they didn't screw up getting Wright's contract insured. They are covered for 75% after he misses 60 days, which is about two weeks away. At this point, I think I'd rather have the money to spend on another player. I don't care what they say, I think he's breaking down and not going to come close to his former self, if he comes back at all.

As for Harvey, I have no idea. I do agree that he desperately wants to be an ace, but I'm beginning to wonder whether that has more to do with his desire to be a celebrity and cash in on his next contract than anything else.

 

[UConnMike04]

I agree that he's a renegade mentally but he's still a better quality arm than Gee. Either way I think by the trade deadline next year both will be gone. I personally just think Gee is gone first to make room for Matz and we'll see Niese gone next year because I doubt the Mets want to pick up his $10M option in 2017 considering we'll have more cost effective options then and Wilpon's.

I agree. Niece holds more value bc he's a lefty as well...

 

[8893]

Have you been watching Niese? Two or three games in a row he's imploded. He always implodes as soon as there's any trouble. Both are serviceable but not worth keeping around when we have better options. Gee can't stay healthy, and Niese is a mental midget.

Top of the 2nd today was Exhibit A for this description of Niese. And the reason why we won't get much for him.

 

[UConnMike04]

He's horrible...

 

[Alum86]

Niese is horrible. His claim to fame as lefty has expired. He needs to go. Probably before Gee.
deGrom and Noah will end up way better than Harvey. Used to think the Dark Knight was Seaveresque.
No way. I think deGrom and Noah have more upside now.
If I start on their bats I will slit my wrists....

 

[UConnMike04]

It's terrible losing at least 2/3 to the Marlins at home. They'd have been a half game up in 1st if they had won. Also it's rare they score 5 runs and when they do they usually win...yesterday was a wasted day IMO. Today feels like a must win with a west coast trip coming up.

 

[8893]

Colon is our ace. Not too bad at the plate either.

 

[mets1090]

1) Colon is fine but let's not kid ourselves about what he is. He's got a 4.72 ERA and had a below average 4.09 ERA last year.
2) For all this "he's not an ace" talk, Harvey is coming off TJS and has a 3.11 ERA and posted a 2.27 ERA two years ago prior to the surgery. Maybe we should wait until he has a full year post surgery under his belt before we start saying he's not an ace.
3) Niese is pretty much awful and has no trade value. To say he has potential is borderline delusional. He's 28, has had a better than league average ERA (park adjusted) just twice in his career, and has already lost velocity due to shoulder issues. He has a decent curveball but he seems afraid to throw it once he gets in any trouble. This leaves him as a two pitch pitcher (fastball and cutter) who sits in the upper 80's and consistently leaves pitches up in the zone.
4) Gee is a better option than Niese when healthy. He consistently pitches his 5+ innings which has value out of the 5 slot. Also consider that his career ERA is exactly 0.01 higher than Niese's and he has shown no issues that would lead you to believe his stuff is declining.

I hope they can trade Niese for literally anything. Maybe a really raw prospect in A ball. Then I'd like to see them call up Matz and eventually put Gee in the bullpen once they're done with the 6 man rotation experiment.

 

[8893]

No question Harvey has the skills and physical makeup to be a dominating ace, but it will be interesting to see how he adjusts mentally now. All I'm saying is that I think his ego is more fragile than I thought. He clearly wants to be the Maserati-driving, super model-dating, centerfold-posing, big city celebrity stud, and I can sense his frustration that the combination of the six-man rotation and his to-be-expected hiccups following Tommy John surgery are causing him because he's very concerned about his numbers--and not necessarily the team's success.

 

[UConnMike04]

I also think real it is hitting him that Noah may be better...his stuff is just as good and it's no question whose a better hitter. Did you see Harvey's face when Noah hit that bomb? It wasn't a look of admiration in my opinion...more of a look of "Hmm...this guy may be better." Competition is always good though. Thing to remember is when Harvey came up he was projected to be a 3 starter, at most a 2 starter. While I love the guy and think he's an ace I wouldn't be shocked if it ended up as he's a 2nd or even 3rd starter.

 

[zyron]

3) Niese is pretty much awful and has no trade value. To say he has potential is borderline delusional. He's 28, has had a better than league average ERA (park adjusted) just twice in his career, and has already lost velocity due to shoulder issues. He has a decent curveball but he seems afraid to throw it once he gets in any trouble. This leaves him as a two pitch pitcher (fastball and cutter) who sits in the upper 80's and consistently leaves pitches up in the zone.

He would be the #1 starter on the Red Sox.

 

[mets1090]

I would be the #1 starter on the Red Sox.

 

[mets1090]

As much as I tend to defend Gee as a capable 5 starter compared to Niese (obviously was terrible last night - I'll give him another start before I crucify him since he was just coming off the DL), the combination of keeping both him and Niese in a 6 man rotation is going to drive me insane I think, particularly when you have a guy in AAA that is undoubtedly a better option than both at this point.

I don't hate the idea of the 6 man rotation but I think I would prefer to designate someone as a spot starter and just line it up so the other 5 have the same amount of rest every time out (i.e. if the team has a day off, Gee gets skipped since everyone will be on normal rest). I'd trade Niese for literally anything, call Matz up, and put Gee in the pen/spot starter role. If you want to win now as they seem to claim, you can't just let your 5th best pitcher stay in AAA when he clearly has far more upside.

 

[Deepster]

Matz is clearly ready. More ready than Harvey or Syndergaard were at that level. I don't see the hesitance to drop Gee to the pen, even throw Niese into long relief and use Matz in a 5 man rotation.

Harvey
DeGrom
Colon
Syndergaard
Matz

Meija is due back in a month. Parnell too. Vic Black is almost back. Familia is lights out. Face it. This team isn't making a run on the wings of Dillon Gee every 6th day.

 

[8893]

Matz is clearly ready. More ready than Harvey or Syndergaard were at that level. I don't see the hesitance to drop Gee to the pen, even throw Niese into long relief and use Matz in a 5 man rotation.

Harvey
DeGrom
Colon
Syndergaard
Matz

Meija is due back in a month. Parnell too. Vic Black is almost back. Familia is lights out. Face it. This team isn't making a run on the wings of Dillon Gee every 6th day.

On paper, that's a great lineup. We just have to hope our shoddy defense won't kill too many quality starts. I don't get the wisdom in playing our best SS, 2B and 3B options out of position right now. I understand that they are likely looking to see which position they can fill with a trade now that Wright's return is increasingly unlikely, but I'm struggling to understand what the harm is in putting Tejada, Murphy and Flores at their respective best positions in the meantime.

Saw the brief Wright interview last night. I feel terribly for the guy, but suffice to say that I didn't gain an ounce of confidence about his return.

 

[mets1090]

Yeah Tejada would be better than Flores at short. Murphy would probably be better than Tejada at third. And Flores would probably be comparable to Murphy at second. At the very least they should switch Tejada and Flores.

Playing them the way they are now might be the long term move (if you believe in Flores at short which I'm up in the air on. Can live with below average defense if he hits 25 homeruns). But short term it would undoubtedly be better to switch them. Or are we not trying to win now?