The Offensive Balance

[businesslawyer]

O.K., so with Clingan moving like last year’s Clingan we are, at worst the second best defensive team in the country. But let’s put that aside for a moment. Let’s also put aside that as great a crowd as that was yesterday, WE HAVE NO CLUE how great that crowd might have been. The crowd was never tested by a hugely important possession, or a quick kill run where we ran off 10 points in rapid succession (the only kill run I remember was when the margin opened up late in the first half, but that was more about them not scoring for 5 minutes than us putting 3 or 4 offensive possessions together).

But while obviously the defense is only elite with Clingan in the lineup, remember that except for the game during which he got hurt we didn’t lose any games while he was out, because the offense was good enough to carry a mediocre defense. The thing about this offense that is really amazing is its balance. All 5 starters averaging within a few points of each other, and guys on the bench who can get you double figures on a good day if they’re needed to. I am fairly certain I’ve never seen a UConn team so balanced offensively (the closest I remember is the year we lost to UCLA in the Elite 8, but neither Jake nor KO was as good offensively as any of this year’s starters), but I also can’t remember any other college basketball team more balanced offensively than this one. Frankly, the best comp I can come up with is the ‘69 Knicks championship team, where you were just as confident with any of the starters getting the last shot.

I’m sure that some of you young guns will pull up analytics to show me that this is all in my head, but to me the offensive balance on the team is maybe the most remarkable thing about this team.

 

[Palatine]

It's not in your head. It's like whack-a-mole every game. Today it was Clingan-Diarra-Newton. Last game Alex had 18 in the first half. It changes every game.

I don't understand your first paragraph. The crowd was great. Period. The end. According to the announcers they were blowing the roof off the place. I don't get your point.

 

[RedStickHusky]

Not to put words in anyone's mouth but perhaps he meant that the crowd was not decisive to the outcome... We didn't need them to be. They were there to enjoy the ride. They did sound good on TV though; "UCONN UCONN UCONN"...

 

[Palatine]

One other thing about the offense. We have been starting the last few games with lay ups off of set plays. It is really impressive and has to be demoralizing for the other team.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The Knicks comp is a great one (and I almost used it yesterday). That so many different players can beat you so many different ways is something very special and that each is such a good passer (a hallmark of those Knicks teams that history often overlooks) brings it to another level.

The 95 tournament team did have a lot of scorers and (at least in my aging memory) was our highest scoring tournament team (IIRC, we scored clost to 100 points in all four games). The UCLA game however was on the back of an other worldly game by Ray (I think 37 points with them double & triple teaming him for the final 30 minutes).

 

[RedStickHusky]

One other thing about the offense. We have been starting the last few games with lay ups off of set plays. It is really impressive and has to be demoralizing for the other team.

It's unreal how many uncontested looks at the rim we get from half court sets.

 

[Poe]

The 05-06 is the only other team that I recall being this balanced with 6 players averaging double digits (rounding up for Hilton at 9.7). Rudy Gay was the leading scorer at 15.2.

Hopefully the season outcome is better this year (fingers crossed/knock on wood/Hail Mary, etc.)

 

[RedStickHusky]

I'm loving all these comps to the Calhoun golden era teams; days a lot of us probably didn't think we'd get to see again.

 

[REB1094]

Cam: 15.2 PPG
Newton: 15.0 PPG
Karaban: 14.6 PPG

Three guys all within 1 PPG of each other leading the way

Recent games top scorers: Clingan vs Marquette, Karaban @ DePaul and @ Georgetown, Cam vs Butler and SJU, Castle vs PC, Newton vs Xavier, @ Nova, and vs Creighton

Can’t be lazy against anyone, because they can all beat you

 

[GlastonTim]

O.K., so with Clingan moving like last year’s Clingan we are, at worst the second best defensive team in the country. But let’s put that aside for a moment. Let’s also put aside that as great a crowd as that was yesterday, WE HAVE NO CLUE how great that crowd might have been. The crowd was never tested by a hugely important possession, or a quick kill run where we ran off 10 points in rapid succession (the only kill run I remember was when the margin opened up late in the first half, but that was more about them not scoring for 5 minutes than us putting 3 or 4 offensive possessions together).

But while obviously the defense is only elite with Clingan in the lineup, remember that except for the game during which he got hurt we didn’t lose any games while he was out, because the offense was good enough to carry a mediocre defense. The thing about this offense that is really amazing is its balance. All 5 starters averaging within a few points of each other, and guys on the bench who can get you double figures on a good day if they’re needed to. I am fairly certain I’ve never seen a UConn team so balanced offensively (the closest I remember is the year we lost to UCLA in the Elite 8, but neither Jake nor KO was as good offensively as any of this year’s starters), but I also can’t remember any other college basketball team more balanced offensively than this one. Frankly, the best comp I can come up with is the ‘69 Knicks championship team, where you were just as confident with any of the starters getting the last shot.

I’m sure that some of you young guns will pull up analytics to show me that this is all in my head, but to me the offensive balance on the team is maybe the most remarkable thing about this team.

I totally understand what you mean by the crowd comment. It Was insane at XL but if that was a closer game it would’ve been even crazier on each Marquette’s offensive possessions. With the blowout it didn’t need that.

 

[Tenspro2002]

O.K., so with Clingan moving like last year’s Clingan we are, at worst the second best defensive team in the country. But let’s put that aside for a moment. Let’s also put aside that as great a crowd as that was yesterday, WE HAVE NO CLUE how great that crowd might have been. The crowd was never tested by a hugely important possession, or a quick kill run where we ran off 10 points in rapid succession (the only kill run I remember was when the margin opened up late in the first half, but that was more about them not scoring for 5 minutes than us putting 3 or 4 offensive possessions together).

But while obviously the defense is only elite with Clingan in the lineup, remember that except for the game during which he got hurt we didn’t lose any games while he was out, because the offense was good enough to carry a mediocre defense. The thing about this offense that is really amazing is its balance. All 5 starters averaging within a few points of each other, and guys on the bench who can get you double figures on a good day if they’re needed to. I am fairly certain I’ve never seen a UConn team so balanced offensively (the closest I remember is the year we lost to UCLA in the Elite 8, but neither Jake nor KO was as good offensively as any of this year’s starters), but I also can’t remember any other college basketball team more balanced offensively than this one. Frankly, the best comp I can come up with is the ‘69 Knicks championship team, where you were just as confident with any of the starters getting the last shot.

I’m sure that some of you young guns will pull up analytics to show me that this is all in my head, but to me the offensive balance on the team is maybe the most remarkable thing about this team.

I'm gonna ding you a point for mixing up Jake Voskuhl and Travis Knight on that 1995 team, but your overall thesis is bang on -- what sets this team apart is the offensive balance. Not only is everyone a threat, but everyone is a threat at multiple levels.

Newton can shoot 3s, pass, or bully his way to the rim.
Spencer can shoot 3s, weave into the lane on the PnR, and hit floaters, jumpers, or layups, or pass.
Castle can drive to the rim, cut, or shoot spot-up 3s.
Karaban can shoot 3s, pass, or cut to the rim.
Clingan can catch lobs, post up, or pass out of the high post. (In fact he's arguably our best-passing big since the aforementioned Knight.)

Oh, and all of them are above-average to elite rebounders for their position.

We're even better than last year's offense, which was based on a lot of off-ball screening to set up Hawkins, Jackson was basically only a threat to pass or dunk, and Sanogo was an elite post-up big, but didn't always flow within the rest of the offense.

 

[businesslawyer]

It's not in your head. It's like whack-a-mole every game. Today it was Clingan-Diarra-Newton. Last game Alex had 18 in the first half. It changes every game.

I don't understand your first paragraph. The crowd was great. Period. The end. According to the announcers they were blowing the roof off the place. I don't get your point.

The crowd was great. My point, sorry if it wasn’t clear, was that it would have been much, much louder had we ever quickly run off 8 points in 4 or 5 possessions, or needed a huge defensive stop. The crowd was great, but it was just celebrating at a party. I have no doubt the decibel level would have been much, much higher had the crowd ever been needed to get into the game and provide a lift to the team.

 

[Umami Zen]

Our scoring balance in our starting five is rock solid. Our scoring balance off the bench to complement our starters makes us a dangerous team in March.

 

[RedStickHusky]

Worth noting that JStew's recent play means we can go eight deep (nine with Solo) and still get + minutes.

 

[businesslawyer]

I'm gonna ding you a point for mixing up Jake Voskuhl and Travis Knight on that 1995 team, but your overall thesis is bang on -- what sets this team apart is the offensive balance. Not only is everyone a threat, but everyone is a threat at multiple levels.

Newton can shoot 3s, pass, or bully his way to the rim.
Spencer can shoot 3s, weave into the lane on the PnR, and hit floaters, jumpers, or layups, or pass.
Castle can drive to the rim, cut, or shoot spot-up 3s.
Karaban can shoot 3s, pass, or cut to the rim.
Clingan can catch lobs, post up, or pass out of the high post. (In fact he's arguably our best-passing big since the aforementioned Knight.)

Oh, and all of them are above-average to elite rebounders for their position.

We're even better than last year's offense, which was based on a lot of off-ball screening to set up Hawkins, Jackson was basically only a threat to pass or dunk, and Sanogo was an elite post-up big, but didn't always flow within the rest of the offense.

Crap, you’re correct about mixing up Knight and Voskuhl. My bad.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I went back recently and watched all of our past championship games. There are three things that really stand out:

1. This is the most balanced team like you said. Every other team had a pretty clear 1-2 alphas and then a supporting cast.

2. The complexity of the offensive sets and the consistency of skill across all the positions is just higher (albeit some of that is more related to the change overall in the 3-5 positions in the more modern game). I’m not saying team talent is higher before any old timers lose their mind at me.

3. God bless whoever proposed the restricted zone. The charges right under the basket seem so absurd looking back. Totally disrupted the game.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I went back recently and watched all of our past championship games. There are three things that really stand out:

1. This is the most balanced team like you said. Every other team had a pretty clear 1-2 alphas and then a supporting cast.

2. The complexity of the offensive sets and the consistency of skill across all the positions is just higher (albeit some of that is more related to the change overall in the 3-5 positions in the more modern game). I’m not saying team talent is higher before any old timers lose their mind at me.

3. God bless whoever proposed the restricted zone. The charges right under the basket seem so absurd looking back. Totally disrupted the game.

It's a little ridiculous, actually, how we won a championship in 2014 with our offense consisting largely of Bazz (and, to a lesser extent, Boat) hero ball.

Yes, Daniels had a big game against Iowa State, Giffey hit some big shots, but most of those games, Villanova, Michigan State, even in the Final Four, were a lot of low-scoring games with late-clock 3s.

But, yes, going back further, we won in 2004 playing a center who couldn't score past the foul line and a PF who couldn't score outside of 5 feet. In 1999, Freeman had some game in the frontcourt, but we had at most 2 guys who could shoot from the outside. In 2011 we had some semblance of modern offense with Roscoe Smith at the 4 alongside Kemba, Lamb, Bazz, and Oriakhi, but it was heavily on Kemba.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

It's a little ridiculous, actually, how we won a championship in 2014 with our offense consisting largely of Bazz (and, to a lesser extent, Boat) hero ball.

Yes, Daniels had a big game against Iowa State, Giffey hit some big shots, but most of those games, Villanova, Michigan State, even in the Final Four, were a lot of low-scoring games with late-clock 3s.

But, yes, going back further, we won in 2004 playing a center who couldn't score past the foul line and a PF who couldn't score outside of 5 feet. In 1999, Freeman had some game in the frontcourt, but we had at most 2 guys who could shoot from the outside. In 2011 we had some semblance of modern offense with Roscoe Smith at the 4 alongside Kemba, Lamb, Bazz, and Oriakhi, but it was heavily on Kemba.

Even the ‘99 championship game, on both sides, it’s a ton of iso from a guard with really poor spacing and minimal off-ball movement. A lot of that is just that the game has modernized as a whole, some of that is this UConn team runs as complex of a half-court offense as we’ve seen in a LONG time in college ball. There were a ton of shots in both the ‘99 and ‘04 games that we would have considered very bad shots by our current standards with this team.

And yes, I watched both ‘11 and ‘14 with the thought that the current UConn squad would likely lay a beat down on either one.

 

[businesslawyer]

The 05-06 is the only other team that I recall being this balanced with 6 players averaging double digits (rounding up for Hilton at 9.7). Rudy Gay was the leading scorer at 15.2.

Hopefully the season outcome is better this year (fingers crossed/knock on wood/Hail Mary, etc.)

Here’s the thing though about 05-06 versus this year’s team. Yes, everyone in ‘06 got their points, like this year, but how did you feel about someone taking the last shot? I was at all 4 tourney games that year. Other than getting Anderson the ball for a 3, did we come out of a huddle hoping that anyone would get the last shot? I wasn’t. Rudy? Outstanding talent but hadn’t shown he wanted to lead through the huge moments. Marcus? Great offensive point guard but not a great shooter. Denham? Maybe out of that group, but no one was confident when the ball was in his hands against Mason for the last shot in both regulation and OT. Josh and Hilton? Please. This year, put the ball in the hands of any starter and ask them to make a play — bucket or assist — and I’m confident. A huge part of the problem in ‘06 was that there wasn’t an alpha scorer. This year, I feel like we have 5 of them. (And I’m not knocking how good the 05-06 team was, just making a comparison.)

 

[businesslawyer]

Even the ‘99 championship game, on both sides, it’s a ton of iso from a guard with really poor spacing and minimal off-ball movement. A lot of that is just that the game has modernized as a whole, some of that is this UConn team runs as complex of a half-court offense as we’ve seen in a LONG time in college ball. There were a ton of shots in both the ‘99 and ‘04 games that we would have considered very bad shots by our current standards with this team.

And yes, I watched both ‘11 and ‘14 with the thought that the current UConn squad would likely lay a beat down on either one.

2014, absolutely. Although I think a lot of fans don’t remember how good Daniels was that year because of his utter failure to achieve on the professional level. While this team is clearly better than ‘11 over the course of the season, don’t underestimate how hard it is to stop a national player of the year point guard when a career NBA off guard and future NPOY candidate guard are alongside him.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I hate bringing up these memories but the 05-06 team never really wanted to break a sweat and in the tournament they were basically begging someone to knock them off. The edge that Spencer has, which I pointed out in a different thread was something that team sorely needed. The couple of players who actually did have some of that were so deep behind the starters that they didn't see the floor enough to give that team what it lacked.

 

[AllHusky]

Right on the money about the crowd. The First Half produced more amazement than intense emotion. Like you had gotten a new toy for Christmas that just blew you away, didn't know what to do with it. Our whole row was completely relaxed as we got into the second half. Totally unexpected. The players and coaches did their job so well, we didn't have to be the "sixth man".

 

[WhereistheDove?]

2014, absolutely. Although I think a lot of fans don’t remember how good Daniels was that year because of his utter failure to achieve on the professional level. While this team is clearly better than ‘11 over the course of the season, don’t underestimate how hard it is to stop a national player of the year point guard when a career NBA off guard and future NPOY candidate guard are alongside him.

Daniels was a heck of a player and damn good in the championship game. I also don’t underestimate that Bazz and Boat were an other-worldly defensive combo that could muck up a game enough to beat any team on any given day.

Kemba similarly would be able to take over any given time but I think he would have had some trouble with Clingan’s drop coverage. If he gets Clingan into foul trouble (real possibility), all bets are off.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

2014, absolutely. Although I think a lot of fans don’t remember how good Daniels was that year because of his utter failure to achieve on the professional level. While this team is clearly better than ‘11 over the course of the season, don’t underestimate how hard it is to stop a national player of the year point guard when a career NBA off guard and future NPOY candidate guard are alongside him.

Just taking the tournament into consideration, 2014 had four player who could fill multiple roles from their individual positions (both Bazz and Boat could handle and pass like a PG and score from inside or outside. DeAndre and Neils could fill the role of a three or a four and each of the four had moments of very high level play, often when it was needed most. No, there wasn't anywhere near the consistency during the regular season that we would have liked but the right guys rose to the occasion at the most critical times.

 

[pepband99]

Biggest difference for me - I can’t recall any team having multiple elite passers at their position.

Clingan, caraban, diarra, castle. All of them are elite passers. Everyone else is at least passable, if not good.

All our other teams went through , at most, 2 distributor starters. After that, a big tail off. We can pass at an extremely high level with basically any lineup. It shows in our assist numbers.

 

[Frank06830]

O.K., so with Clingan moving like last year’s Clingan we are, at worst the second best defensive team in the country. But let’s put that aside for a moment. Let’s also put aside that as great a crowd as that was yesterday, WE HAVE NO CLUE how great that crowd might have been. The crowd was never tested by a hugely important possession, or a quick kill run where we ran off 10 points in rapid succession (the only kill run I remember was when the margin opened up late in the first half, but that was more about them not scoring for 5 minutes than us putting 3 or 4 offensive possessions together).

But while obviously the defense is only elite with Clingan in the lineup, remember that except for the game during which he got hurt we didn’t lose any games while he was out, because the offense was good enough to carry a mediocre defense. The thing about this offense that is really amazing is its balance. All 5 starters averaging within a few points of each other, and guys on the bench who can get you double figures on a good day if they’re needed to. I am fairly certain I’ve never seen a UConn team so balanced offensively (the closest I remember is the year we lost to UCLA in the Elite 8, but neither Jake nor KO was as good offensively as any of this year’s starters), but I also can’t remember any other college basketball team more balanced offensively than this one. Frankly, the best comp I can come up with is the ‘69 Knicks championship team, where you were just as confident with any of the starters getting the last shot.

I’m sure that some of you young guns will pull up analytics to show me that this is all in my head, but to me the offensive balance on the team is maybe the most remarkable thing about this team.

Agree . The ‘69-’70 Knicks championship team. I was fortunate to attend every home game of that championship run. The thrill, looking back, at the game they played instilled by Red Holzman’s find the open man team play, is what Hurley has achieved with this UCONN. Like the Knicks, ball movement, selfless play and team defense make this 2024 very special. Like the Knicks when Willis went down, the rest came up big In game 5 vs Lakers. Then game 7 vs Lakers Frazier, 36 pts 19 Assists.

Perhaps not relevant, the other team that comes to mind are the ‘98 Yankees from the standpoint of a team who’s sum was greater than their parts. As you stated, anyone is capable of dropping 20+ on any given night. Like the Yanks, someone else ready to pick up the baton….We are so lucky to be UCONN fans

 

[Gurleyman]

Biggest difference for me - I can’t recall any team having multiple elite passers at their position.

Clingan, caraban, diarra, castle. All of them are elite passers. Everyone else is at least passable, if not good.

All our other teams went through , at most, 2 distributor starters. After that, a big tail off. We can pass at an extremely high level with basically any lineup. It shows in our assist numbers.

i was having this conversation recently too. All five starters (and Diarra) aren’t just good passers - they seem like they all genuinely love to pass, and I haven’t seen many teams like that. I still remember game one against Northern Arizona, Cam, our hired gun, came out turning down good looks and dropping dimes and Hurley praised him repeatedly after. Then Newton, with 31, didn’t take a hero shot and found Cam for a great look at Kansas. It missed, but I thought about how much that would help building culture over the long term (“It’s not about me. I trust my teammates to make the shot or the play.“).

Perhaps we’ll need a brief selfish streak from someone with a hot hand or a matchup to exploit. But it isn’t our default mode.

 

[superjohn]

It's a little ridiculous, actually, how we won a championship in 2014 with our offense consisting largely of Bazz (and, to a lesser extent, Boat) hero ball.

Yes, Daniels had a big game against Iowa State, Giffey hit some big shots, but most of those games, Villanova, Michigan State, even in the Final Four, were a lot of low-scoring games with late-clock 3s.

But, yes, going back further, we won in 2004 playing a center who couldn't score past the foul line and a PF who couldn't score outside of 5 feet. In 1999, Freeman had some game in the frontcourt, but we had at most 2 guys who could shoot from the outside. In 2011 we had some semblance of modern offense with Roscoe Smith at the 4 alongside Kemba, Lamb, Bazz, and Oriakhi, but it was heavily on Kemba.

Agreed, they won it with outstanding defense especially from Boat and Bazz, ft shooting and late clock bailout shots from Bazz. Daniels was also great in the final four against Florida.

 

[TheChamps990411]

O.K., so with Clingan moving like last year’s Clingan we are, at worst the second best defensive team in the country. But let’s put that aside for a moment. Let’s also put aside that as great a crowd as that was yesterday, WE HAVE NO CLUE how great that crowd might have been. The crowd was never tested by a hugely important possession, or a quick kill run where we ran off 10 points in rapid succession (the only kill run I remember was when the margin opened up late in the first half, but that was more about them not scoring for 5 minutes than us putting 3 or 4 offensive possessions together).

But while obviously the defense is only elite with Clingan in the lineup, remember that except for the game during which he got hurt we didn’t lose any games while he was out, because the offense was good enough to carry a mediocre defense. The thing about this offense that is really amazing is its balance. All 5 starters averaging within a few points of each other, and guys on the bench who can get you double figures on a good day if they’re needed to. I am fairly certain I’ve never seen a UConn team so balanced offensively (the closest I remember is the year we lost to UCLA in the Elite 8, but neither Jake nor KO was as good offensively as any of this year’s starters), but I also can’t remember any other college basketball team more balanced offensively than this one. Frankly, the best comp I can come up with is the ‘69 Knicks championship team, where you were just as confident with any of the starters getting the last shot.

I’m sure that some of you young guns will pull up analytics to show me that this is all in my head, but to me the offensive balance on the team is maybe the most remarkable thing about this team.

You have to go all the way back to an NBA team 50 years ago to find a balanced team? Theres been plenty. The early dook teams of the 90s and the 99 team we beat for the title, Gtech with Kenny anderson and dennis scott had a great starting 5, UNLV, Kentucky 96 iirc and several others i cant think of.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I hate bringing up these memories but the 05-06 team never really wanted to break a sweat and in the tournament they were basically begging someone to knock them off. The edge that Spencer has, which I pointed out in a different thread was something that team sorely needed. The couple of players who actually did have some of that were so deep behind the starters that they didn't see the floor enough to give that team what it lacked.

Earlier this season Hurley specifically mentioned Spencer never having played big time NCAA tourney level games and would be hungry for success at UConn.
And Hurley says he looks for hungry transfer portal players.