The last solid UConn front court

[Bone Dog]

I stumbled on this recording from Senior Day of 2022 [thanks, @MJL243]. I think this is the last time Geno had a healthy and substantial front court, and it's also the last time he truly had a stacked roster. It was a dismal season for stretches because of Paige's early season injury, as well as injuries that slowed Azzi and Caroline at times. But when Paige returned at the end, it was a redemptive experience for everyone.

• That season, the bigs were Liv, Dorka, Aaliyah and Caroline, with Amari and Piath on the end of the bench. When was the last time Geno had a front court like that?
• In the backcourt, Geno had Paige, Christyn, Azzi, Nika and Evina. The only missing piece was Aubrey.
• This was the last time UConn was a truly persuasive pre-season #1 or #2. Six future WNBA draft picks, an NPoY, incredible depth of talent and maturity.
• Still, the shadows that would darken the path to the NC for this group were looming. In particular, Caroline was already declining toward off-season hip surgery. Azzi was also slowed by foot injuries that had haunted her all season. And of course, there was Paige. And no one could have foreseen Dorka's freak injury.

Anyway, re-watching this game is a good way to get some perspective on where the team, and especially the front court, really is today. Make no mistake, Paige & Co have a shot at a late season run -- when does she not? -- but it will be as a cinderella team. And if Paige can engineer it, we will celebrate her forever.

 

[Charliebball]

The last truly "great" UConn front court was 2015-2016 with Stewie, Gabby and Morgan.......

 

[DEpup]

I might go further back to Dolson, Stewie, and Stokes.

 

[Bone Dog]

The last truly "great" UConn front court was 2015-2016 with Stewie, Gabby and Morgan.......

I think you’re putting more weight on the word ‘great’ than I am. All I’m looking for is a solid group to compare this year’s team with. I think, Sarah could play with any team that’s ever played in Storrs. But we don’t need everyone to be that awesome. Steady and consistent is what we need, and coincidentally is what most of the NC winning teams had.

The 2021-22 team was big enough to play with anyone. Two 6’5” players, one very strong 6’3” player, a very crafty 6’2” player, and a pair of 6’5” reserves at the end of the bench. I wish we could have a lineup like this every year.

 

[Charliebball]

I think you’re putting more weight on the word ‘great’ than I am. All I’m looking for is a solid group to compare this year’s team with. I think, Sarah could play with any team that’s ever played in Storrs. But we don’t need everyone to be that awesome. Steady and consistent is what we need, and coincidentally is what most of the NC winning teams had.

The 2021-22 team was big enough to play with anyone. Two 6’5” players, one very strong 6’3” player, a very crafty 6’2” player, and a pair of 6’5” reserves at the end of the bench. I wish we could have a lineup like this every year.

There's great and then there's "great" as in they won championships.......we've witnessed some great teams since 2015-2016 but it's been far too long since we've seen that other kind of greatness at UConn.........

 

[Plebe]

Highly questionable whether this was a "great" frontcourt by UConn standards.

Better than this year's frontcourt? Yes of course. But to put it mildly, it's a low bar. If this is our new standard for greatness, then we have conceded a huge amount of territory.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Objectivity has not been a strong point with us for some years now. But we are great fans.

 

[BobbyJ]

I think you’re putting more weight on the word ‘great’ than I am. All I’m looking for is a solid group to compare this year’s team with. I think, Sarah could play with any team that’s ever played in Storrs. But we don’t need everyone to be that awesome. Steady and consistent is what we need, and coincidentally is what most of the NC winning teams had.

The 2021-22 team was big enough to play with anyone. Two 6’5” players, one very strong 6’3” player, a very crafty 6’2” player, and a pair of 6’5” reserves at the end of the bench. I wish we could have a lineup like this every year.

Then you should have used “solid” in the title of the thread. 2022 was big and adequate.

 

[JellyBean]

Not trying to highjack the thread, but was this the year, her first year with us, when Dorka was falling down a lot during games? That poor young lady, it seemed, was consistently in some type of on court collision where she would end up on the floor.

 

[Cuango]

I stumbled on this recording from Senior Day of 2022 [thanks, @MJL243]. I think this is the last time Geno had a healthy and substantial front court, and it's also the last time he truly had a stacked roster. It was a dismal season for stretches because of Paige's early season injury, as well as injuries that slowed Azzi and Caroline at times. But when Paige returned at the end, it was a redemptive experience for everyone.

• That season, the bigs were Liv, Dorka, Aaliyah and Caroline, with Amari and Piath on the end of the bench. When was the last time Geno had a front court like that?
• In the backcourt, Geno had Paige, Christyn, Azzi, Nika and Evina. The only missing piece was Aubrey.
• This was the last time UConn was a truly persuasive pre-season #1 or #2. Six future WNBA draft picks, an NPoY, incredible depth of talent and maturity.
• Still, the shadows that would darken the path to the NC for this group were looming. In particular, Caroline was already declining toward off-season hip surgery. Azzi was also slowed by foot injuries that had haunted her all season. And of course, there was Paige. And no one could have foreseen Dorka's freak injury.

Anyway, re-watching this game is a good way to get some perspective on where the team, and especially the front court, really is today. Make no mistake, Paige & Co have a shot at a late season run -- when does she not? -- but it will be as a cinderella team. And if Paige can engineer it, we will celebrate her forever.

I find that I am pretty much in agreement with most of your posts but I have to disagree here. While we may not be the top seed or even top four, there is just no way this team will enter the tournament as a “Cinderella”! This team will almost certainly be one of the top five or six teams in the country as we enter the tournament! That is a very far cry from being a “Cinderella” team. Even if we were to drop to being a top ten team (in the rankings) I can guarantee you that no team is going to look at the bracket and say, “I hope we get to play that Cinderella UConn team!“

 

[Bone Dog]

Then you should have used “solid” in the title of the thread. 2022 was big and adequate.

Fine, then read it as solid. Whatever. But this front court rose to many occasions even though it fell apart at the end of the tournament. I’d be thrilled to have a front court like this one to propel Paige & Co to an NC.

And @Cuango, I appreciate your disagreement. I’d like to think that by March we’ll be formidable. You know me, I’m an incorrigible optimist. But that takes a lot of tea leaf reading. Comparing what we have right now to what we had then, we look like a long shot. In 2021-22, we were stacked — thwarted by karma, but stacked with veteran talent and until the last few games, healthy. This season, we’re a young team still recovering from devastating injury, hoping Aubrey can return as superwoman, reeling from the loss of Ayanna in the frontcourt. I mean, this is looking to be a bit thin. Paige can still don her cape and try to fly us into an NC — I’m a believer — but that’s putting a lot on her shoulders.

 

[Viet Vet]

Some might say (yours truly included) the best frontcourt was Tina Charles, with Tina Charles and Tina Charles.

 

[bballnut90]

Highly questionable whether this was a "great" frontcourt by UConn standards.

Better than this year's frontcourt? Yes of course. But to put it mildly, it's a low bar. If this is our new standard for greatness, then we have conceded a huge amount of territory.

I agree with this take--the 2022 team was outrebounded 49-24 by South Carolina in the championship game.

2014-15 gets my vote for most recent. 1st in the nation in blocks, +13.1 on the boards. Frontcourt of Tuck/Stewart with Stokes/Williams off the bench. 2013-14 was excellent too with the same grouping, except substitue Dolson for Tuck to give more size.

 

[Skeets]

Less controversial to identify the first great front court. Hint: they are now announcers.

 

[oldude]

The last truly "great" UConn front court was 2015-2016 with Stewie, Gabby and Morgan.......

Just to be clear. The starting 5 for the majority of 2015-16 season was Stewie, Tuck, KLS, Mo & Kia. Gabby, Pheesa & Saniya were all regular rotation players, mostly off the bench.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

Fine, then read it as solid. Whatever. But this front court rose to many occasions even though it fell apart at the end of the tournament. I’d be thrilled to have a front court like this one to propel Paige & Co to an NC.

And @Cuango, I appreciate your disagreement. I’d like to think that by March we’ll be formidable. You know me, I’m an incorrigible optimist. But that takes a lot of tea leaf reading. Comparing what we have right now to what we had then, we look like a long shot. In 2021-22, we were stacked — thwarted by karma, but stacked with veteran talent and until the last few games, healthy. This season, we’re a young team still recovering from devastating injury, hoping Aubrey can return as superwoman, reeling from the loss of Ayanna in the frontcourt. I mean, this is looking to be a bit thin. Paige can still don her cape and try to fly us into an NC — I’m a believer — but that’s putting a lot on her shoulders.

A little bit tea leaf reading…

The closest resemblance by the current UConn team to a prior UConn team is the 2nd year of TASSK (the 1st year of TASSK would have been better had not both Kirsten and Sue go down with injuries).

• Resemblance will improve as the current team matures;
• Resemblance includes having a lot of incomers and playable depth of the rosters;
• As the team matures and shots fall at a better clip, we may also see balanced scoring of the prior TASSK teams.

Boxscores are not available for the entire season prior to the 2002-2003 season so only going from memory on the comparisons.

• Geno used the running game in the first year of TASSK to win games in the tough OOC schedule, but it masked team deficiencies that could be exposed in the postseason;
• Despite the two early losses, this year’s team looks to be more mature at this point in time than TASSK’s first year;
• The running game and having Shea, Svet and Tamika led to more balanced season averages in scoring — something replicable when Azzi joins Paige and Sarah as engines of the team and the press becomes more prominently used;
• Jana reminds of a taller Swin with better post moves and better handles; Ice could eventually become an Ashja-type player;
• Sarah, Ice, Jana, Morgan and Aubrey are somewhat comparable to the TASSK first year versions of Tamika, Ashja, Swin, Paige (Sauer) and Kelly;
• Tennessee had a formidable stable of front court players during TASSK’s first and second years, and UConn did well against TN in TASSK’s second year.

 

[Bone Dog]

aI agree with this take--the 2022 team was outrebounded 49-24 by South Carolina in the championship game.

2014-15 gets my vote for most recent. 1st in the nation in blocks, +13.1 on the boards. Frontcourt of Tuck/Stewart with Stokes/Williams off the bench. 2013-14 was excellent too with the same grouping, except substitue Dolson for Tuck to give more size.

I wasn’t taking a poll of everyone’s favorite frontcourt — though that can be fun, too. Mine is probably Rebecca and Kara, though it’s certainly not the most recent. But I love a ‘twin towers’ lineup… and by coincidence, Geno often played Liv and Dorka together in 2021-22. But he has yet to play Jana and Ice together, the closest thing he has to a ’twin towers’ lineup. In fact, just for contrast, that year he rarely played Aaliyah by herself, but Ice routinely plays the 5 position by herself, as does Sarah. My how things have changed.

But one thing in defense of 2021-22: the team that lost to SC in the NC, and was outrebounded by them so handily, was a shell of what it was in February. Dorka had broken her wrist by that game, Liv was battling the flu (as was Azzi, by the way) and Caroline’s hip injury had gradually taken the spring out of her step. She’d get surgery for it after the season. The only player healthy in that frontcourt for the NC game was Aaliyah, and she was up against a perfectly healthy Boston, Saxton, Amihere and Cardoso. Sorry if I don’t share your dim view of that group. When I look at the way they played against Providence in the video linked above, I am impressed. And Providence was blessed with several solid bigs, perhaps the only team that could match UConn in height in the BE that season. Geary, Baskerville and Olsen were 6’4”, 6’4”, 6’3”.

But, to get back to the original post: I think any of us would be thrilled to have a frontcourt as talented as 2021-22 now. Or do the “objectivity fanatics” disagree? Would you not like to have three players like Liv Dorka and Aaliyah backing Paige’s last NC run? Will Sarah, Ice and Jana pull themselves together into such a strong unit by the end of February? I certainly hope so. How about you?

If I had to give a target this year’s team could aim for, it would be the 2021-22 team. Do we have the horses, as they say, to go as far as that team? In the path to an NC another Goliath like the SC of 2021-22 stands in the form of UCLA.

One last historical thought. The following year — 2022-23 — we lost Liv to graduation and Caroline to concussions, and Paige and Azzi to injury, and we still almost upset SC in the regular season. We came within 2 points and a missed call on an illegal inbounds pass. That year, Dorka and Aaliyah combined to hold their own against Boston Cardoso and Saxton — Aaliyah in particular was unstoppable and along with Aubrey matched Boston and Cardoso’s scoring. Of course, that was the year of the Nika-monster and Lou added 19 pts that day. It’s possible to beat Goliath. It’s just a matter of having the horses. Do we this season?

 

[HuskyNan]

Boxscores are not available for the entire season prior to the 2002-2003 season so only going from memory on the comparisons.

The media guide for 2003-04 should have the box scores from the previous year

https://archives.lib.uconn.edu/node/388667

 

[Plebe]

One last historical thought. The following year — 2022-23 — we lost Liv to graduation and Caroline to concussions, and Paige and Azzi to injury, and we still almost upset SC in the regular season. We came within 2 points and a missed call on an illegal inbounds pass. That year, Dorka and Aaliyah combined to hold their own against Boston Cardoso and Saxton — Aaliyah in particular was unstoppable and along with Aubrey matched Boston and Cardoso’s scoring. Of course, that was the year of the Nika-monster and Lou added 19 pts that day. It’s possible to beat Goliath. It’s just a matter of having the horses. Do we this season?

I think you might be succumbing to the temptation to cherry-pick data points that support your chosen narrative.

Yes, Edwards and Griffin had remarkable scoring outputs (25 and 17 points) ... but Aaliyah picked up her 3rd foul in 2Q and her 4th foul in 3Q, which limited her minutes. Dorka had 5 points and 7 rebounds in 38 minutes. Patterson off the bench was ineffective in 14 minutes of play.

Boston, meanwhile, had 26 points and 11 boards and never was in foul trouble, while Cardoso off the bench had 17 and 11 of her own. Saxton and Amihere combined for another 8 and 8.

South Carolina's guards had a miserable shooting day but once again we were unable to keep their bigs off the offensive glass. SC's 25 O-boards were decisive in allowing them to overcome poor shooting. All in all, it's a stretch to call this "holding their own" against the SC frontcourt. Yes, their play along with SC's anemic shooting was enough to keep us fairly close, but the rebounding margin killed us.

 

[Bone Dog]

I think you might be succumbing to the temptation to cherry-pick data points that support your chosen narrative.

Yes, Edwards and Griffin had remarkable scoring outputs (25 and 17 points) ... but Aaliyah picked up her 3rd foul in 2Q and her 4th foul in 3Q, which limited her minutes. Dorka had 5 points and 7 rebounds in 38 minutes. Patterson off the bench was ineffective in 14 minutes of play.

Boston, meanwhile, had 26 points and 11 boards and never was in foul trouble, while Cardoso off the bench had 17 and 11 of her own. Saxton and Amihere combined for another 8 and 8.

South Carolina's guards had a miserable shooting day but once again we were unable to keep their bigs off the offensive glass. SC's 25 O-boards were decisive in allowing them to overcome poor shooting. All in all, it's a stretch to call this "holding their own" against the SC frontcourt. Yes, they did well enough to give us a chance to win, but the rebounding margin killed us.

Not cherry picking anything. Your point, in a nutshell, is that SC won the rebounding battle. No kidding. This has been well-litigated so often on the BY as to make it scintillating every time it comes up again.

The only data point I’m interested in here is that it was a remarkably close game in which we almost toppled the reigning #1 with an injury decimated team, and one reason we did it was because we had great scoring production where it mattered — namely in the frontcourt.

 

[Plebe]

Not cherry picking anything. Your point, in a nutshell, is that SC won the rebounding battle. No kidding. This has been well-litigated so often on the BY as to make it scintillating every time it comes up again.

The only data point I’m interested in here is that it was a remarkably close game in which we almost toppled the reigning #1 with an injury decimated team, and one reason we did it was because we had great scoring production where it mattered — namely in the frontcourt.

"Not cherry-picking anything," and then, "The only data point I'm interested in" -- uh that's pretty much the definition of cherry-picking.

One might say our frontcourt held their own in terms of scoring, but last I checked rebounding is a fundamental part of frontcourt play and we most certainly didn't hold our own there. So you've cherry-picked the scoring and intentionally disregarded the rebounding. I don't enjoy bringing it up either, but we can't just wish away its importance.

You're also cherry-picking this one "good" game, without mentioning the bad games that followed in which the same frontcourt played. An honest assessment of the quality of the frontcourt should view their performance holistically.

 

[Bone Dog]

"Not cherry-picking anything," and then, "The only data point I'm interested in" -- uh that's pretty much the definition of cherry-picking.

One might say our frontcourt held their own in terms of scoring, but last I checked rebounding is a fundamental part of frontcourt play and we most certainly didn't hold our own there. So you've cherry-picked the scoring and intentionally disregarded the rebounding. I don't enjoy bringing it up either, but we can't just wish away its importance.

You're also cherry-picking this one "good" game, without mentioning the bad games that followed in which the same frontcourt played. An honest assessment of the quality of the frontcourt should view their performance holistically.

No, cherry picking refers to distorting the truth by selective use of data. I have not done that. Get real. Focusing on scoring is not a distortion. Or do you think the final score is false. Or do you think we played poorly that game? Did you watch the game, by the way? Our front court scored 47, theirs scored 51. That’s a pretty good performance against the frontcourt widely thought to be the best in D1 that season. [I also love the “uh.” My daughter and her friends used that same vocal gesture when they were in high school.]

Is there a term for bringing in irrelevant data to discredit a valid point? Sort of the inverse of cherry picking? Mentioning the “bad games that followed” is a case of this. The losses to Marquette and SJU were bad games, though the frontcourt scored 35 against Marquette. No excuses for the SJU game, which was a home game no less. Stuff like that happens when you only play 5. It doesn’t change the fact that we played really well against SC.