The Improbability of UConn

[nomar]

No, that is exactly what it means. As Robert Kennedy said, “Some men see things as they are, and ask why. I dream of things that never were, and ask why not.”

So how many times have you won Powerball?

 

[CL82]

Yes, the definite synergy is what I'm talking about. And I agree that neither program is derivative of the other. Minor quibble that Perno's late tenure teams did not sell out regularly - and I remember a particularly frustrating game in New Haven where there were more Syracuse than UConn fans present.

Let me frame it a different way. Jim Calhoun and Geno Auriemma clearly didn't get along & essentially operated independent parallel programs, two lines to greatness that did not meet. There is NO doubt that either of them would have had the same success on their own. Full stop. And because of their prickly relationship we (fans) grew accustomed to thinking about the teams as separate silos of excellence. I think especially true for UConn alums that were there when Calhoun & Geno were so fiercely independent.

Now an improved relationship between the coaches & the school sprung from pride amongst the players and students to make it abundantly clear that there can be a synergistic relationship at UConn that raises the ceiling for both basketball programs. The lines eventually met and headed ever upwards together. You can feel that difference on campus now (I was at UConn this past Saturday with my son for accepted students day), students, faculty, everyone takes pride in the basketball programs as a whole.

I went to school during the Don Perno years. Believe me, I speak from first-hand experience that the old field house was, quite literally, stuffed full with people. I’ve talked about it here before, but first people would come in and sit in the bleachers. Then, ushers would stuff people together so that there was no space and everyone was as squeezed in as possible. Then, people would be allowed to fill the aisles. Then, a row of people would sit cross legged on the floor in front of the bleachers, then, a second row, then a third row all sitting on the floor. Then, people would squeeze into every nook and cranny in the field house, including a big crowd looking in from the doors. That wasn’t an isolated event, that was every single game.

During the same period of time I can remember working out in the old field house. Wow women’s basketball games were being played in the gym with a curtain wrapped around the court. Between sets, I would walk over and peek and see if anything interesting was happening. To be honest, the crowd didn’t even rival what you would see at a modern high school girls basketball game.

Jim and Geno not getting along really didn’t set the tone for the way fans appreciated the teams. As I noted in my earlier post, according to Chris Dailey, the woman’s team built up a Fanbase from people who could not get into the men’s games, which were in significant demand. We see vestiges of that today. There is a big percentage of seniors that remain fans of the woman’s program and not the men’s program.

For what it’s worth, the “thing” between Jim and Geno is more a Geno thing than a Jim thing? I’ve heard Calhoun complement Auriemma on a number of occasions, including saying, correctly in my belief, that Auriemma has a brilliant basketball mind. I’ve never heard Geno compliment Jim. In fact, when a reporter asked both Auriemma and Calhoun, separately, whether they would take a picture together with Hurley, Calhoun said “sure” and Geno said “ maybe if I was in the room, but not if I had to drive anywhere to do it. I mean, I guess if the school wants me to do it, I’ll do it.” Just for what it’s worth.

I agree completely that for too long, all the programs lived in their own separate fiefdoms and that currently there seems to be a real esprit de corps among all the program coaches, as it should be. Jim Mora in particular has made a habit of attending other university sports games, including, to my knowledge, men’s basketball, women’s basketball, baseball, softball, and hockey. I’m sure they’ve been more. Geno has had a good relationship with the baseball team and address them before the last post season run. He was, obviously, also at the men’s final four.

For my part, I support all things UConn, so I freely admit, I can’t watch a field hockey game. For whatever reason, I find it unwatchable.

 

[CL82]

The fact that your pipe dream came true doesn't mean it wasn't a pipe dream

I guess it all depends on what he put in the pipe.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

One point I would make is that UConn's rise coincided with a major recession in Connecticut in the late 1980's. UConn went from being a safety school to a target for many middle class and upper middle class families as the Connecticut economy took a big hit from the post-Cold War cuts in defense spending and a fairly deep recession in the late 80's into the early 90's. As Connecticut came out of that recession, the political support for the school increased significantly. Part of it was more kids from affluent communities going to UConn, and part of it was the success of the basketball teams. After that, the support started rolling in from the state government, non-UConn alums that liked the hoops program, and regional businesses. UConn 2000 cemented the rise of UConn from a regional afterthought to a respected national university. The 1990's were great for Connecticut, as insurance and Wall Street had a spectacular decade, more than compensating for the loss of manufacturing jobs. That enabled the state to write some checks into UConn to un-dumpify the place.

Put another way, if UConn was the same spithole in 1996 that it was in 1986, Calhoun and Auriemma would not have stuck around as long as they did. There was a confluence of events that enabled UConn to not just get a coach like Calhoun, but to hold onto him.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I went to school during the Don Perno years. Believe me, I speak from first-hand experience that the old field house was, quite literally, stuffed full with people. I’ve talked about it here before, but first people would come in and sit in the bleachers. Then, ushers would stuff people together so that there was no space and everyone was as squeezed in as possible. Then, people would be allowed to fill the aisles. Then, a row of people would sit cross legged on the floor in front of the bleachers, then, a second row, then a third row all sitting on the floor. Then, people would squeeze into every nook and cranny in the field house, including a big crowd looking in from the doors. That wasn’t an isolated event, that was every single game.

During the same period of time I can remember working out in the old field house. Wow women’s basketball games were being played in the gym with a curtain wrapped around the court. Between sets, I would walk over and peek and see if anything interesting was happening. To be honest, the crowd didn’t even rival what you would see at a modern high school girls basketball game.

Jim and Geno not getting along really didn’t set the tone for the way fans appreciated the teams. As I noted in my earlier post, according to Chris Dailey, the woman’s team built up a Fanbase from people who could not get into the men’s games, which were in significant demand. We see vestiges of that today. There is a big percentage of seniors that remain fans of the woman’s program and not the men’s program.

For what it’s worth, the “thing” between Jim and Geno is more a Geno thing than a Jim thing? I’ve heard Calhoun complement Auriemma on a number of occasions, including saying, correctly in my belief, that Auriemma has a brilliant basketball mind. I’ve never heard Geno compliment Jim. In fact, when a reporter asked both Auriemma and Calhoun, separately, whether they would take a picture together with Hurley, Calhoun said “sure” and Geno said “ maybe if I was in the room, but not if I had to drive anywhere to do it. I mean, I guess if the school wants me to do it, I’ll do it.” Just for what it’s worth.

I agree completely that for too long, all the programs lived in their own separate fiefdoms and that currently there seems to be a real esprit de corps among all the program coaches, as it should be. Jim Mora in particular has made a habit of attending other university sports games, including, to my knowledge, men’s basketball, women’s basketball, baseball, softball, and hockey. I’m sure they’ve been more. Geno has had a good relationship with the baseball team and address them before the last post season run. He was, obviously, also at the men’s final four.

For my part, I support all things UConn, so I freely admit, I can’t watch a field hockey game. For whatever reason, I find it unwatchable.

Understood, I'm guessing you were there in Corny Thompson era? I fully get there is a virtual eclipse of great players, teams and moments at UConn from 60's to late 70's via the Calhoun era recency bias. The seeds were in-place. Yet with all due respect, I went to UConn as well and attendance was not good 1983-1986. If attendance figures are available I'm sure they'd back me up (will look for 1990 or 99 media guides I kept). During my time as a student we used to alternate sitting behind the basket to be super close and trying to mimic North Goal gang energy (no dice) or 5-6 rows up at half-court and there was almost always plenty of room to move around except for the BE games which were rarely in Storrs (I recall Pitt, Seton Hall, BC consistently getting Storrs - we yearned for good teams to play there to get energy and a full house). I don't recall the Civic Center selling out either, maybe for Syracuse or Georgetown (the Ewing games were a bid deal) but I don't think so. I vividly remember the 1985-86 game vs Central at the Field House when Cliff got a tech for tangling with a Central player - Perno relegated him to the bench and Cliff remained standing blocking the view of the 3-4 front rows of alumni/fans behind the bench - they could have moved back but instead they booed Cliff Robinson! Personally, that is when I was done with the coach.
Later, I remember seeing a sell-out in 1988 while looking at a box score v Georgetown while traveling in Europe and being beyond excited that UConn was coming! Later that season, the lack of sell outs at the field house was illustrated by the NIT game when the dust came off the rafters (admittedly they did expand capacity to standing room or makeshift seats for that game, but they never had to before) = the dust had collected there for 4+ years. Only thing good about those field house games was that you could hide bottles outside in the snow, and the building was unsafe to smoke in so they'd let you out at halftime and we'd drink in the cold to get fired up for 2nd half.
I graduated in 1987, Calhoun's first year. They weren't good yet - but we KNEW it was coming.

 

[Dogdeacon]

. If attendance figures are available I'm sure they'd back me up (will look for 1990 or 99 media guides I kept).

*Found attendance #s, only dates back to 1986-87 (perhaps they didn't want to show 83-85) in 2009-10 Media Guide HCC: Purdue 9,155, Hartford 12,401, Lehigh 9829, Syracuse 8,038 (New Haven), St Johns 10,039, Providence 10,479, Georgetown 11,035, Pitt 8,964, BC 8,340, Seton Hall 8,130

Field House: UMass 3,446, Central 3,676, URI 3,032, Ffd 2,587, Holy Cross 3,496. By way of comparison, at the 1988 VCU game in the field house for NIT attendance was 4,801.

 

[Palatine]

The inventor of the sport founded KU's basketball program.

Naismith was a Canadian who invented basketball 30 miles from UConn. He got his doctorate in Colorado. The fact he was ever in Kansas was highly improbable. He went there to run the chapel. Complete happenstance. Improbable beyond belief.

 

[Wise2]

*Found attendance #s, only dates back to 1986-87 (perhaps they didn't want to show 83-85) in 2009-10 Media Guide HCC: Purdue 9,155, Hartford 12,401, Lehigh 9829, Syracuse 8,038 (New Haven), St Johns 10,039, Providence 10,479, Georgetown 11,035, Pitt 8,964, BC 8,340, Seton Hall 8,130

Field House: UMass 3,446, Central 3,676, URI 3,032, Ffd 2,587, Holy Cross 3,496. By way of comparison, at the 1988 VCU game in the field house for NIT attendance was 4,801.

in 1983 we averaged 9,209, good for 35 national and better than Kansas

35. Connecticut 13 119,721 9,209
36. Kansas 15 137,376 9,158
37. Oklahoma 20 181,609 9,080

By 1985, we dropped to 62nd at an average of 7,292

 

[CL82]

Understood, I'm guessing you were there in Corny Thompson era? I fully get there is a virtual eclipse of great players, teams and moments at UConn from 60's to late 70's via the Calhoun era recency bias. The seeds were in-place. Yet with all due respect, I went to UConn as well and attendance was not good 1983-1986. If attendance figures are available I'm sure they'd back me up (will look for 1990 or 99 media guides I kept). During my time as a student we used to alternate sitting behind the basket to be super close and trying to mimic North Goal gang energy (no dice) or 5-6 rows up at half-court and there was almost always plenty of room to move around except for the BE games which were rarely in Storrs (I recall Pitt, Seton Hall, BC consistently getting Storrs - we yearned for good teams to play there to get energy and a full house). I don't recall the Civic Center selling out either, maybe for Syracuse or Georgetown (the Ewing games were a bid deal) but I don't think so. I vividly remember the 1985-86 game vs Central at the Field House when Cliff got a tech for tangling with a Central player - Perno relegated him to the bench and Cliff remained standing blocking the view of the 3-4 front rows of alumni/fans behind the bench - they could have moved back but instead they booed Cliff Robinson! Personally, that is when I was done with the coach.
Later, I remember seeing a sell-out in 1988 while looking at a box score v Georgetown while traveling in Europe and being beyond excited that UConn was coming! Later that season, the lack of sell outs at the field house was illustrated by the NIT game when the dust came off the rafters (admittedly they did expand capacity to standing room or makeshift seats for that game, but they never had to before) = the dust had collected there for 4+ years. Only thing good about those field house games was that you could hide bottles outside in the snow, and the building was unsafe to smoke in so they'd let you out at halftime and we'd drink in the cold to get fired up for 2nd half.
I graduated in 1987, Calhoun's first year. They weren't good yet - but we KNEW it was coming.

Take a look at the crowd in this picture of a Norm Bailey dunk.

That’s representative of what the crowd was like.

 

[PWS]

One major problem back in the Perno days was that for a very large part of the fan base, every time they saw him they thought of him stealing the ball from Bill Bradley, putting us in the elite eight, which until the NIT win was the high point of UConn basketball.

I was done with him long before he was fired. He had sufficient talent (albeit not well enough conditioned and his guards were tiny) to do more in the BE than they did during Corny Thompson's time there and I was furious when we blew what should have been an insurmountable lead against St John's in the BET in Hartford my senior year in college. I believe it was 17 points at halftime with no shot clock. The lead kept melting away and Mullin hit a 20 ft shot at the buzzer with the game tied.

A few weeks later, reading the sports section of one of the publications from the middle of the state, I read an article announcing Earl Kelly signing with UConn. The author added "the best part is now Perno will have job security for four more years". I was ready to beat the #$#@ out of him for writing that.

I was at that game & sitting with a bunch of Georgetown fans. I was complaining about the state of the program & Perno in particular.

We go up 15 in the 2nd half with about 12 minutes left. During a timeout, some woman from GT chastised me for being down on my team. I pointed out to her, that we were playing loose & now that we think we can win Perno was going to milk the clock - & panic when it got to 5. Over 10 minutes left & we were going to milk the clock. I think we scored 5 points the rest of the way & lost.

At the end of the game, I told the woman it didn’t take Nostradamus to predict how this would go. That was when I started rooting for UC to lose just to get rid of Perno.

All said, Perno was a really nice guy and had a nice administrative job at GW.

 

[nomar]

Naismith was a Canadian who invented basketball 30 miles from UConn. He got his doctorate in Colorado. The fact he was ever in Kansas was highly improbable. He went there to run the chapel. Complete happenstance. Improbable beyond belief.

The inventor of the game went there, founded the program, hired Phog Allen, and the rest is history. Who cares why he went there? He literally invented the sport and wrote the rules. The inventor of the sport founding a winning program is faaaaaarrrrrrr less improbable than UConn winning 5 titles in 25 years. I know you saw it in a peyote dream, but that makes you literally the only person on earth that saw a cellar dweller from a tiny state passing the likes of KU.

Triple down on it, i know you can’t help yourself.

 

[superjohn]

The inventor of the game went there, founded the program, hired Phog Allen, and the rest is history. Who cares why he went there? He literally invented the sport and wrote the rules. The inventor of the sport founding a winning program is faaaaaarrrrrrr less improbable than UConn winning 5 titles in 25 years. I know you saw it in a peyote dream, but that makes you literally the only person on earth that saw a cellar dweller from a tiny state passing the likes of KU.

Triple down on it, i know you can’t help yourself.

I can't see who you're responding to and there's nothing improbable about KU being a blue blood.

The UConn run is even more improbable/incredible when it's framed in the proper 5 titles in 23 tournaments. Covid year and our nonsensical APR ban make it 5 in 23. It's made even more incredible when people realize they had 3 different coaches win it in 11 tournaments. Most programs never get back to glory after having a legend retire.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Just a jack-ass with a platform

 

[wingsfan055]

Calhoun was the architect, but Tate George put UConn on the national map when he hit the fall away jumper after a full court pass with a second left to beat Clemson in the Sweet 16. That play is still being used in the best Tourney buzzer beaters of all-time.