The first order of business for the New New Big East

[nelsonmuntz]

Waylon stop fronting for a second and think of this from a TCU leadership perspective. You just saw Pitt, the school that lured you to the big east in the first place walk out the door. You've heard WVU pimp itself out to the SEC, and you've heard that both UConn AND RU have not committed to the conference. You think they're signing up for that? Maybe they do, ill have to see it.

I have made way too many posts outlining my position to repeat it again.

UConn, Rutgers and WVU's behavior in the last week has been a total embarrassment to those institutions, and could result in catastrophe for all three. If I were TCU, I would want nothing to do with them either.

 

[noeynox]

Once that cat is out of the bag, you can' stuff back it in. The WHOLE world knows every school is looking for another alternative, even if it seems unlikely there is one.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

At least we are upfront with what we want. Unlike Pitt and Cuse, we are doing it in the open while Pitt and Cuse dropped the bomb on rest of us right before we negotiate for the biggest TV deal. Pitt, Cuse, ACC and ESPN damaged the other 15 schools. We won't know the extend of the damage until next year.

 

[whaler11]

I almost hope that the people who advocate for ECU end up in a league with them for a little while just so they can see how wrongheaded the idea is.

If Tulane wins 3 in a row are we going hear about how valuable the New Orleans market is?

 

[WestCoastHusky]

I almost hope that the people who advocate for ECU end up in a league with them for a little while just so they can see how wrongheaded the idea is.

If Tulane wins 3 in a row are we going hear about how valuable the New Orleans market is?

ECU has a good football program. They draw 50K to their games. They are not sitting in a huge TV market but they are the second largest school in that state. Their academics are questionable but who else we got that has similar profile? Temple? Navy? UCF? At least ECU wants to be in the BE and they are in the EST time zone. BE just needs bodies right now to keep the BCS bid viable.

 

[whaler11]

ECU has a good football program. They draw 50K to their games. They are not sitting in a huge TV market but they are the second largest school in that state. Their academics are questionable but who else we got that has similar profile? Temple? Navy? UCF? At least ECU wants to be in the BE and they are in the EST time zone. BE just needs bodies right now to keep the BCS bid viable.

You can't add bodies and keep your BCS bid viable. East Carolina is a running joke at this point to the ACC and Big East. If everything collapses and you need to put together 9 teams to fill out a schedule then you call ECU.

 

[whaler11]

I have made way too many posts outlining my position to repeat it again.

UConn, Rutgers and WVU's behavior in the last week has been a total embarrassment to those institutions, and could result in catastrophe for all three. If I were TCU, I would want nothing to do with them either.

Do you really think that if those schools can't get in a better league that Cinci, Louisville, South Florida or whomever is left without a seat at the party won't associate with them? You think that is a risk? South Florida will turn their back on Rutgers and UConn to align with East Carolina and Southeast Missouri State?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

You can't add bodies and keep your BCS bid viable. East Carolina is a running joke at this point to the ACC and Big East. If everything collapses and you need to put together 9 teams to fill out a schedule then you call ECU.

If everything collapses? Has it not? I guess I missed the part where everything had not collapsed.

 

[ctchamps]

If everything collapses? Has it not? I guess I missed the part where everything had not collapsed.

Most of us are still trying to pick ourselves off the floor.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Most of us are still trying to pick ourselves off the floor.

As am I but right now we are in a 6 team BCS conference that is looking at adding Navy and Air Force for Football only as the first order of business. I've got news for you, they won't even bite unless we can get some more football schools in here ahead of them.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Do you really think that if those schools can't get in a better league that Cinci, Louisville, South Florida or whomever is left without a seat at the party won't associate with them? You think that is a risk? South Florida will turn their back on Rutgers and UConn to align with East Carolina and Southeast Missouri State?

If you can't work for Goldman Sachs in finance, or Wachtell Lipton in law, or McKinsey in consulting, are you better off collecting unemployment? That seems to be the consensus on this board. I will let most of the posters her in on a little secret. We went to UConn, not Harvard.

 

[uconnbaseball]

We can still play "ball" with the likes of USF and TCU while working on membership with the ACC and Big 10 behind the scenes. Now that we have made our conference preference clear in the form of leaks, we can quiet down on that front and work together building back up the Big East. If something better comes along, we'll take it. If not, then keep clawing on up in the NBE.

Hopefully the SEC decides what they want to do soon. If they add Missouri, expansion probably stops. If they add FSU, we probably get the golden ticket to the ACC.

 

[ctchamps]

As am I but right now we are in a 6 team BCS conference that is looking at adding Navy and Air Force for Football only as the first order of business. I've got news for you, they won't even bite unless we can get some more football schools in here ahead of them.

I'm not sure they will join the BE. But anything is possible. The only possibility will be if they are convinced the other conferences are through with conference changes. If they can be comfortable with that position, then you are correct they may want guarantees additional schools are added to the conference as conditions for joining.

The sad thing is that Navy was caught off guard along with everyone else. One of the things that made the BE attractive to them was that they played Pitt and Cuse. So who knows if the loss of those teams will deter them directly as well as indirectly.

 

[whaler11]

If you can't work for Goldman Sachs in finance, or Wachtell Lipton in law, or McKinsey in consulting, are you better off collecting unemployment? That seems to be the consensus on this board. I will let most of the posters her in on a little secret. We went to UConn, not Harvard.

I might not get the job at Goldman... but I know I've got a job at EF Hutton if I need it, so I don't need to pretend that EF Hutton is the place I want to be.

 

[gars44]

We can still play "ball" with the likes of USF and TCU while working on membership with the ACC and Big 10 behind the scenes. Now that we have made our conference preference clear in the form of leaks, we can quiet down on that front and work together building back up the Big East. If something better comes along, we'll take it. If not, then keep clawing on up in the NBE.

Hopefully the SEC decides what they want to do soon. If they add Missouri, expansion probably stops. If they add FSU, we probably get the golden ticket to the ACC.

Too sensible!

 

[toppencil]

I would recommend only dropping the basketball schools if they don't allow FB schools to go to 12.

The basketball only schools have never held back the football schools. That's why you have TCU, that's why Miami and VT were added years ago only to leave, and Rutgers, Louisville, Cinn and USF etc.. When has football been held back? Which school was not allowed in by the basketball schools?

The problem is not the basketball schools, it's the lack of success on the football field. Last year was embarassing for the whole league. This nonsense about trouble adding schools is ridiculous. Go form your own football league, no New York market, no Philadelphia market, no Chicago market, good luck.

The success of basketball in the Big East has carried the conference, football has twice caused the league to look foolish. There is only one school left that has a long standing tradition of football and it's not UConn. If they go, say goodbye to the BCS.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The basketball only schools have never held back the football schools. That's why you have TCU, that's why Miami and VT were added years ago only to leave, and Rutgers, Louisville, Cinn and USF etc.. When has football been held back? Which school was not allowed in by the basketball schools?

The problem is not the basketball schools, it's the lack of success on the football field. Last year was embarassing for the whole league. This nonsense about trouble adding schools is ridiculous. Go form your own football league, no New York market, no Philadelphia market, no Chicago market, good luck.

The success of basketball in the Big East has carried the conference, football has twice caused the league to look foolish. There is only one school left that has a long standing tradition of football and it's not UConn. If they go, say goodbye to the BCS.

Good post.

 

[FDNY99]

No New York market? What about Rutgers

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

It

Why is leaving a good basketball conference to going to help football? If there were a plausibly stable and decent football conference available, okay, I get it. But in the near term there isn't, barring an ACC invite. We are currently a basketball school. Maintain that brand at all costs, and eventually the football team might get a tag-along invite to a good conference. Everyone accepts it as fact that basketball doesn't't matter, but it is our basketball team that makes us attractive to Coach K and Duke. And basketball was surely a big factor in the ACC's approval of Pitt and Syracuse.

Basketball may make UConn attractive to Coach K, however without football there is a zero chance of joining the ACC. It is football that holds the key. The problem continues to be that this league has too many members influencing decisions without any interest in the survival of a few members football programs. The basketball-onlies could not care less what happens to football. They will always survive as basketball programs whether the Big East remains together or splits. To the football schools, because of what is invested, the future of football is absolutely crucial. People can call UConn a basketball school all they want but like it or not the future of UConn athletics is tied to football.

 

[weyuo]

The dream basketball conference took a hit when Pitt and SU left anyway, no time now to hang on to nostalgia.

I agree with that statement 100%. It's time for the remaining football schools in the Big East get together with like minded schools in the North and start a completely new all sports conference. Notre Dame only has a couple years left on their current TV contract. If an attractive enough conference was formed they may look at it as a positive and join up. Having the prestige to be an original/charter member of a exciting new league that makes sense travel/fan wise, competition wise, but most importantly financially wise might be the carrot that makes the deal. Penn ST & Temple should have no lingering resentment if the new league cut all ties to the Big East completely. Hell, even BC & MD might take the bait. Add Navy if you need to get to 12 or 14 or some even number in football only if it makes sense because a new league would be run by the all sports schools, not the basketball onlies. It's time folks!

 

[gars44]

I agree with that statement 100%. It's time for the remaining football schools in the Big East get together with like minded schools in the North and start a completely new all sports conference. Notre Dame only has a couple years left on their current TV contract. If an attractive enough conference was formed they may look at it as a positive and join up. Having the prestige to be an original/charter member of a exciting new league that makes sense travel/fan wise, competition wise, but most importantly financially wise might be the carrot that makes the deal. Penn ST & Temple should have no lingering resentment if the new league cut all ties to the Big East completely. Hell, even BC & MD might take the bait. Add Navy if you need to get to 12 or 14 or some even number in football only if it makes sense because a new league would be run by the all sports schools, not the basketball onlies. It's time folks!

Good concept, but no one leaves the ACC for the unknown, experimental conference you are talking about. ND does not join. It has to be done with less desirable constituents. It will look a little uglier than what you are proposing.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Basketball may make UConn attractive to Coach K, however without football there is a zero chance of joining the ACC. It is football that holds the key. The problem continues to be that this league has too many members influencing decisions without any interest in the survival of a few members football programs. The basketball-onlies could not care less what happens to football. They will always survive as basketball programs whether the Big East remains together or splits. To the football schools, because of what is invested, the future of football is absolutely crucial. People can call UConn a basketball school all they want but like it or not the future of UConn athletics is tied to football.

Back to Spartacus's question. How does leaving the a great basketball league for a mediocre one make UConn more attractive? If anything, the departure of Pitt and Syracuse makes it harder to split. Why would we want to be in a basketball league with just TCU, USF, WVU, Cincinnati, Louisville, Rutgers, Houston, ECU and UCF? That is a terrible basketball league. You will see 6k in the Civic Center for a league like that.

 

[SubbaBub]

Right now, today, which institutions would your rather have as partners to share long term common interests athletically AND academically that can reasonably be counted on to share those interests 25 years from now?

Group 1: Rutgers, Louisville, WVU, USF, Cinncinati, TCU, GTown, Nova, PC, St. John's, Depaul, Marquette, Seton Hall, (ECU, Navy, et al.)
Group 2: Duke, UNC, Ga Tech, UVA, Va Tech, NC State, Wake, FSU, BCU, Miami, Clemson, Maryland, Pitt, Cuse, (Rutgers/ND)
Group 3: Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio St., Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Nebraska, (RU/ND)
Group 4: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas St., Baylor, Iowa St., Rutgers, Louisville, WVU, USF, Cincinnati, (Missouri/Texas Tech)

It depends on priorities of course, geographically the ACC is best since it has the highest concentration of Northeastern teams. If the top priority is associating with like-minded state flagship universities and $$$, then the B1G is best. If the top priority is to continue to dominate in basketball, well the new Big East looks nice and soft. If you are desparate to keep a seat at the BCS AQ table and the B12 schools listed have truly had enough of Bevo, then Group 4 might work in the absence of other options.

 

[toppencil]

No New York market? What about Rutgers

Yes Rutgers does have some fans in NYC but only 20% of the market according to this article. http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

 

[Carl Spackler]

The basketball only schools have never held back the football schools. That's why you have TCU, that's why Miami and VT were added years ago only to leave, and Rutgers, Louisville, Cinn and USF etc.. When has football been held back? Which school was not allowed in by the basketball schools?

The problem is not the basketball schools, it's the lack of success on the football field. Last year was embarassing for the whole league. This nonsense about trouble adding schools is ridiculous. Go form your own football league, no New York market, no Philadelphia market, no Chicago market, good luck.

The success of basketball in the Big East has carried the conference, football has twice caused the league to look foolish. There is only one school left that has a long standing tradition of football and it's not UConn. If they go, say goodbye to the BCS.

This is a load of crap. Miami won a national championship as a big east team officially in 2001, and in 1991, when the basketball colleges finally realized they needed to attach football. Virginia Tech was #2 in the country in 1999. West Virginia has been within one game of playing for national championships on more than one occasion. Syracuse was the third team, fnishing in the top 25 in the polls 5 out of 7 years bw/ 1995-2002

The question was asked: how dropping 7 big market, basketball schools with lots of history makes the football conference better?
It was answered nicely by another poster, but I'll just add that dropping the basketbal colleges doesn't make the conference better. What dropping the basketball colleges, and more specifically, their leadershp (i wouldn't mind keeping them) but dropping their leadership in favor of a conference leadership that values the concepts of an intercollegiate athletic conference at the BCS level of football? That would be ideal. I don't see Providence letting go of anything though.

So,dropping the basketball schools, doesn't make the conference better, what it does - is make the conference STABLE. And even if the new conference were to lose out on some revenue in a frst year or two minus the catholics, BCS conferences are where the money is at - more profitable. I"m not posting the reference again, I"ve done it before here, but last year - BCS football onference schools divvied up approx $750 million in revenue, while non BCS conferences got approx $35 million.

Big east basketall, at the height of it's power cannot approach that kind of revenue annually for a prolonged period. Big east basketball, without BCS football revenue, will quickly fall down the revenue scale.

I asked the question in response: please explain to me why Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech are in the ACC and not Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall and Providence?

Haven't gotten an answer yet.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

This is a load of crap. Miami won a national championship as a big east team officially in 2001, and in 1991, when the basketball colleges finally realized they needed to attach football. Virginia Tech was #2 in the country in 1999. West Virginia has been within one game of playing for national championships on more than one occasion. Syracuse was the third team, fnishing in the top 25 in the polls 5 out of 7 years bw/ 1995-2002

The question was asked: how dropping 7 big market, basketball schools with lots of history makes the football conference better?
It was answered nicely by another poster, but I'll just add that dropping the basketbal colleges doesn't make the conference better. What dropping the basketball colleges, and more specifically, their leadershp (i wouldn't mind keeping them) but dropping their leadership in favor of a conference leadership that values the concepts of an intercollegiate athletic conference at the BCS level of football? That would be ideal. I don't see Providence letting go of anything though.

So,dropping the basketball schools, doesn't make the conference better, what it does - is make the conference STABLE. And even if the new conference were to lose out on some revenue in a frst year or two minus the catholics, BCS conferences are where the money is at - more profitable. I"m not posting the reference again, I"ve done it before here, but last year - BCS football onference schools divvied up approx $750 million in revenue, while non BCS conferences got approx $35 million.

Big east basketall, at the height of it's power cannot approach that kind of revenue annually for a prolonged period. Big east basketball, without BCS football revenue, will quickly fall down the revenue scale.

I asked the question in response: please explain to me why Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech are in the ACC and not Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall and Providence?

Haven't gotten an answer yet.

The basketball side has nothing to do with the football side of the conference. Pitt and Syracuse leave for the ACC whether we are associated with the basketball school or not. How does playing basketball with 8 programs make the football teams more or less stable? The Big East fails to be a stable conference because the programs, as a whole, lack the national names, tv cache, and historical significance compare to the other conferences. The basketball schools don't have any impact on that at all. Split from the basketball schools tomorrow...still not stable. Why? Because leaving the basketball schools doesn't suddenly turn UConn, Rutgers and USF into Alabama, USC and Ohio State.

You probably haven't gotten an answer because it's a stupid fcuking question. What point are you trying to make? Why other conferences don't have hybrid models? Other conferences are stable because of the their stronghold in BCS football. They don't need basketball onlies to add value, because they are in a position of strength with huge football money. The Big East doesn't have that luxury. If you can increase any value, you have to do it.

 

[toppencil]

This is a load of crap. Miami won a national championship as a big east team officially in 2001, and in 1991, when the basketball colleges finally realized they needed to attach football. Virginia Tech was #2 in the country in 1999. West Virginia has been within one game of playing for national championships on more than one occasion. Syracuse was the third team, fnishing in the top 25 in the polls 5 out of 7 years bw/ 1995-2002

The question was asked: how dropping 7 big market, basketball schools with lots of history makes the football conference better?
It was answered nicely by another poster, but I'll just add that dropping the basketbal colleges doesn't make the conference better. What dropping the basketball colleges, and more specifically, their leadershp (i wouldn't mind keeping them) but dropping their leadership in favor of a conference leadership that values the concepts of an intercollegiate athletic conference at the BCS level of football? That would be ideal. I don't see Providence letting go of anything though.

So,dropping the basketball schools, doesn't make the conference better, what it does - is make the conference STABLE. And even if the new conference were to lose out on some revenue in a frst year or two minus the catholics, BCS conferences are where the money is at - more profitable. I"m not posting the reference again, I"ve done it before here, but last year - BCS football onference schools divvied up approx $750 million in revenue, while non BCS conferences got approx $35 million.

Big east basketall, at the height of it's power cannot approach that kind of revenue annually for a prolonged period. Big east basketball, without BCS football revenue, will quickly fall down the revenue scale.

I asked the question in response: please explain to me why Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech are in the ACC and not Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall and Providence?

Haven't gotten an answer yet.

I noticed there are a number of indiduals on this site living under the delusion that UConn is a big time football power. If you think throwing away 30 years of tradition playing in the best basketball conference in the country is a good idea, I think you're full of crap. Thankfully the people running the school aren't completely delusional. They realize that ACC membership isn't happening and the Big East positives outweigh any negatives.

The schools who left, all left for football, everyone knows that. Miami and VT were the heart of Big East football, they were brought in to appease Pitt, Syracuse and BC, but they left to form a "super conference", remember. It was a flop, IMO. But tell me what the league should have done to differently? The recent defections are a vestage of the first one. Fear of losing BCS status.

The answer to your question has nothing to do with basketball. It's no different than coaches who leave one school to move up. The perception is the Big East is the bottom BCS conference. The one most likely to lose it's BCS status. So teams "move up" if they can. Syracuse and Pitt jumped ship even though they haven't done shit on the football field in years. Would you be surprised if some ACC schools move to the SEC? Florida State and Clemson would go in a heartbeat. Is there a basketball problem in the ACC? Three Big 12 schools have moved, was basketball the problem there?

But go ahead, form a conference made up of schools that play football. IMO UConn's sports programs will suffer for it.

 

[SAMCRO]

toppencil, the conference is crumbling around you/us. It's done. It may still be a good BB league, but it will be so w/out the likes of Pitt, SU, WVU, L'ville, Cinci, and at some point UConn. You're continually posting about how insignificant UConn football is nationally, get a grip. No one here has delusions that UConn is equal to Oklahoma, Alabama, etc... in football. Thats not the point. The University made a commitment to compete in FB at the BCS level. The state of CT made an investment in significant tax dollars to compete in football at the BCS level. And, now that we are playing the at this level, no FB fans want to go back to the Yankee/A10 days, or to even go to the MAC or CUSA leagues. As much as you want to shout out how bad our FB program is b/c that notion supports your interest (which is keeping the BE BB league together) it doesn't make it so. We were beaten soundly by OU, and spit the bit v. Michigan. Okay. We also won shares of 2 BE titles over the past 4 years. We have a winning bowl record, beaten the likes of SCe, ND, WVU, Pitt, SU (you know, all these traditional teams that are so much more superior to us), we are competitive at this level. Not dominant, but competitive (granted, it could be a long year this year, but that happens to everybody).

Carl, you asked toppencil for an explanation as to why Nova, SJU, PC, Gtown, aren't in the ACC. The answer is they don't need to be. They are in a great league today, playing long time regional rivals at the highest level of their primary sport (BB). It would make no sense for them to be in the ACC.

 

[toppencil]

I have not said UConn FB is bad. I am familiar with the history and I support the program. But what happens if everyone else finds a home and the Huskies are the last of the Mohicans? What then? You seem pretty sure that UConn is not going to be the odd man out. I hope you're right.

 

[coachcap]

I have not said UConn FB is bad. I am familiar with the history and I support the program. But what happens if everyone else finds a home and the Huskies are the last of the Mohicans? What then? You seem pretty sure that UConn is not going to be the odd man out. I hope you're right.

Your Chicken Little act is wearing thin.