The coming battle for the National Championship

[donalddoowop]

To be fair, very few people would call Raven a “great guard.”

When I saw her in high school, I thought she was going to be great. Being injured her freshman season did not help.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

There have only been a handful of freshmen that have had very significant contributions so I would not put great expectations on any of the three. I would expect more impact from all the other twelve, with the caveat of those returning from injury, than any of the freshmen.

Well I would not rule out another dose of lightning in a bottle. Not after Sarah. Yeah, she was number 1, but she didn't perform like a number 1. She didn't perform like any number. So the rules may just be out the window. Maybe one of the best parts of this game.

 

[Bone Dog]

To be fair, very few people would call Raven a “great guard.”

Raven is a great player. She’s just not a great scorer, but in every other aspect of the PG position she excels: assists, defense, rebounding and generally running the team at both ends. As I recall, Geno had someone named Nika with a similar skill set.

 

[Bone Dog]

As for UCLA, Lauren Betts just had her best season yet, by a significant margin, and I expect she'll surpass it next season, if only because her sister will be by her side. What I mean is, Sienna will probably get some minutes and I expect great things from her down the road. But her most important contribution next season may be moral support for Lauren who has gone on record about her struggles with depression over the last few seasons. Having her sister near may give her an important emotional boost. A fully engaged, happy Lauren Betts could be pretty amazing.

The only real question for me is whether Kiki can become the leader this team needs. She has all the physical skills, but whether she can be the PG for a championship team is still an open question. She'll have another important weapon in Kneepkens alongside Betts, Dugalic, Gardner and Jaquez. Now can she use her to best advantage?

I know some folks think Leger-Walker will completely change the picture at UCLA, but I really don't see it. Her best seasons at WSU aren't as good as Kiki's, though she's scored more. But that is mainly because she was the primary scorer on the team. It doesn't tell us much about how her skills as a PG will fit at UCLA, which is loaded with better scoring options than her. She was also used to getting >36 minutes at WSU, which will definitely not happen at UCLA. Kiki got 28 mins last season, and I expect that to continue, which means ~12 mins for Leger-Walker. Whatever she adds to UCLA will probably have to happen in those reduced minutes as the backup PG. And she has no experience piloting a top-4 team through the tournament.

 

[Geew1992]

As for UCLA, Lauren Betts just had her best season yet, by a significant margin, and I expect she'll surpass it next season, if only because her sister will be by her side. What I mean is, Sienna will probably get some minutes and I expect great things from her down the road. But her most important contribution next season may be moral support for Lauren who has gone on record about her struggles with depression over the last few seasons. Having her sister near may give her an important emotional boost. A fully engaged, happy Lauren Betts could be pretty amazing.

The only real question for me is whether Kiki can become the leader this team needs. She has all the physical skills, but whether she can be the PG for a championship team is still an open question. She'll have another important weapon in Kneepkens alongside Betts, Dugalic, Gardner and Jaquez. Now can she use her to best advantage?

I know some folks think Leger-Walker will completely change the picture at UCLA, but I really don't see it. Her best seasons at WSU aren't as good as Kiki's, though she's scored more. But that is mainly because she was the primary scorer on the team. It doesn't tell us much about how her skills as a PG will fit at UCLA, which is loaded with better scoring options than her. She was also used to getting >36 minutes at WSU, which will definitely not happen at UCLA. Kiki got 28 mins last season, and I expect that to continue, which means ~12 mins for Leger-Walker. Whatever she adds to UCLA will probably have to happen in those reduced minutes as the backup PG. And she has no experience piloting a top-4 team through the tournament.

The 2025-2026 season will tell use exactly what kind of coach Close really is

 

[Bone Dog]

The 2025-2026 season will tell use exactly what kind of coach Close really is

I think Cori may have been the perfect coach for Lauren just because she seems to be very kind, and that may have been just what she needed.

 

[MSGRET]

We get it.
The third most accomplished coach in the game at this time is a crap coach in your opinion who has only :

• made11 straights sweet 16s ( not counting a 32-1 season (w 5 wins over top 8 teams without a tournament)
• made 5 straight Final Fours (among 7 total) during that 11 game stretch
• won 3 championships and one runnerup during that 11 game stretch.

She'll be a hell of a coach if she can ever coach a guard.

And with that, I'm outta' this thread (which is kinda turning into a bad/defend Dawn topic) before @HuskyNan boots me.

1. UConn has made the Sweet Sixteen every year since the 1993-94 season, that's 32 straight years.

2. Has made the Elite Eight in 29 of the last 32 years.

3. Advanced to the Final Four 22 of the last 32 years.

4. Appeared in 13 Championship games including their first National Title in the 94-95 season winning 12 of them.

5. The only loss in the Championship game was to SC in MN with the Huskies missing their starting center Dorka after she broke her wrist in the Final Four.

 

[visitingcock]

1. UConn has made the Sweet Sixteen every year since the 1993-94 season, that's 32 straight years.

2. Has made the Elite Eight in 29 of the last 32 years.

3. Advanced to the Final Four 22 of the last 32 years.

4. Appeared in 13 Championship games including their first National Title in the 94-95 season winning 12 of them.

5. The only loss in the Championship game was to SC in MN with the Huskies missing their starting center Dorka after she broke her wrist in the Final Four.

Uh.?? Yes. , all true.

I think I acknowledged the fact that Geno is the greatest coach that ever lived. That was not what my post was about. My response was to those few insinuating that Dawn is a crap coach who, particularly , can’t coach guards. And I only asserted that Dawn is the “third most accomplished” coach today.

Am I wrong?

This time I’m really out of the thread.

 

[Cuango]

The 2025-2026 season will tell use exactly what kind of coach Close really is

I think 2024-25 and many seasons before that have already shown us what kind of coach she is and I must say, it’s not pretty. She is clearly not a top tier coach. She has underachieved throughout her time at UCLA and notwithstanding their run to the final four, she did so again last year. She will have a tremendously talented roster next season with Bettsx2, Rice, Kneepkens, and Leger-walker. Perhaps so talented that they win it all in spite of Close, but I doubt it.

 

[cancontent]

1. UConn has made the Sweet Sixteen every year since the 1993-94 season, that's 32 straight years.

2. Has made the Elite Eight in 29 of the last 32 years.

3. Advanced to the Final Four 22 of the last 32 years.

4. Appeared in 13 Championship games including their first National Title in the 94-95 season winning 12 of them.

5. The only loss in the Championship game was to SC in MN with the Huskies missing their starting center Dorka after she broke her wrist in the Final Four.

Dorka's injury happened before the Final Four, not during. It happened against NC State.

 

[oldude]

1. UConn has made the Sweet Sixteen every year since the 1993-94 season, that's 32 straight years.

2. Has made the Elite Eight in 29 of the last 32 years.

3. Advanced to the Final Four 22 of the last 32 years.

4. Appeared in 13 Championship games including their first National Title in the 94-95 season winning 12 of them.

5. The only loss in the Championship game was to SC in MN with the Huskies missing their starting center Dorka after she broke her wrist in the Final Four.

On that loss to SC, I have always acknowledged that SC was the better team. But at the same time, I would have loved to see UConn completely healthy in that game with Geno’s ability to prepare a team to play its best in the biggest game.

You mention Dorka, who was a big loss. But UConn’s injuries and illness for that championship game went well beyond Dorka. Azzi was sick as a dog and hadn’t practiced for several days. She tried to play, but was ineffective. Liv was nursing a pulled hamstring. As a result, she couldn’t brace herself when boxing out against SC’s bigs and UConn was overwhelmed on the boards. Finally, E injured her leg early in the 1st half and was also ineffective.

SC was certainly a deserving champion. But we will never know what the outcome might have been if a healthy UConn team had shown up.

 

[HopJim]

Not sure I’d claim that. Dawn is the only coach to beat Geno in the championship and prior to this year won 5 of the last 6 head to head.

Old Dude's assessment is spot on and applies to South Carolina's rare losses from UConn AND other teams. Spread the floor, play up tempo and tough defense. Recency bias says that after several years of SC dominance that the trend may be moving back UConn's way, but Dawn's teams are well coached and she has done an outstanding job of recruiting the past 10+ years. Mark SC down as a top 5 team and hope we get the opportunity to play them in the Final 4.

 

[MSGRET]

Dorka's injury happened before the Final Four, not during. It happened against NC State.

Brainfart!

 

[MooseJaw]

I think Cori may have been the perfect coach for Lauren just because she seems to be very kind, and that may have been just what she needed.

wisdom my friend, I agree 100%. Players need different things, some need a drill instructor, some need a cheerleader. A good coach should know what their players need and motivate accordingly. The best coaches recruit players that they feel fit their program. Glad Lauren found the right coach for her.

 

[Cuango]

If you're going to list her resume don't gloss over her other accomplishments like her Olympic medals, All-star nods and All-Star Skills and 3 point shooting awards. Those indicate she's a "pesky savy guard" to me, which was the point I was replying to.

The fact Coach Staley's offence isn't guard oriented is irrelevant in my opinion. Obviously Staley did something right for Gray to be at the level she is currently.

Although she is most definitely not my cup of tea, I have mad respect for Dawn’s accomplishments both as a player and a coach. Her results speak for themselves. However, to be fair here, Gray played two years for Sylvia Hatchell before she went to SC. She then played one year under Dawn at SC. She has now been in the W for nine years and is having, by far, her best season this year. Perhaps Hatchell had some influence? Or, maybe, just maybe, she has simply gotten better after nine years as a Pro!

I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say that Dawn’s strengths as a coach so far are recruiting, front court dominance and program development. Like Pat Summit, she has developed a system that relies greatly on intimidating defense, front court dominance, and physical superiority. Guards in her program are usually not the stars but rather are there as defensive support for the front court. That is why it is going to be extremely interesting to see how this “Latson” experiment is going to go.

 

[cancontent]

Although she is most definitely not my cup of tea, I have mad respect for Dawn’s accomplishments both as a player and a coach. Her results speak for themselves. However, to be fair here, Gray played two years for Sylvia Hatchell before she went to SC. She then played one year under Dawn at SC. She has now been in the W for nine years and is having, by far, her best season this year. Perhaps Hatchell had some influence? Or, maybe, just maybe, she has simply gotten better after nine years as a Pro!

I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say that Dawn’s strengths as a coach so far are recruiting, front court dominance and program development. Like Pat Summit, she has developed a system that relies greatly on intimidating defense, front court dominance, and physical superiority. Guards in her program are usually not the stars but rather are there as defensive support for the front court. That is why it is going to be extremely interesting to see how this “Latson” experiment is going to go.

1). Or that Staley's influence helped her break through moreso than Hatchell? It can be viewed both ways.

2). The same can be said about all players once they enter the WNBA. The examples are everywhere. Does that take away what their respective college coaches did to help get them there?

 

[Skeets]

Some thoughts on basketball philosophy in the modern era. Pat Summitt was one of the two greatest coaches in the history of WBB. She won 8 national championships with a pretty simple philosophy. Recruit tough, athletic kids, coach’em up, play defense and rebound. That’s not to say that TN didn’t have some great offensive players. But they leaned on their defense and rebounding in the biggest games.

It’s been 13 years since Pat coached her last game. But her influence on WBB is still there. SC and TX are two prime examples of the Pat Summit philosophy. Even UCLA with their reliance on pounding the ball inside to Betts plays a version of the physical, grind it out style of play that Pat championed.

On the other side, you have Geno and a number of coaches who realized that low scoring, grind it out games, where teams are separated by a few points, are inherently risky to play over and over. As a result, Geno did more than any other coach to pioneer sophisticated offensive basketball that includes heavy reliance on up tempo transition, spreading the floor and a motion offense. Other coaches like MM, Niele Ivy, Lindsay Gottlieb and even Kim Mulkey have embraced high scoring, motion offenses.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that either philosophy is right or wrong. But when you look at the surge in popularity of WBB relative to the arrival of CC & Paige in the W, or future pro stars JuJu, HH and Azzi, there is little doubt that the future of WBB relative to recruiting, fan and alumni support and winning championships will be tied to OFFENSE!!!

OD, I sorta disagree with you (a first as I totally respect your insight). Geno coaches up tempo and transition game because he has the talent that can, and the players want to do that. But, maybe more importantly Geno has always been about defense, even if it means a lower scoring game. Geno once said that he doesn't play the game that the first team to 100 points wins. I think Geno is a "defense first" coach and relies on the recruited talents (and some coaching) to win offensively. It's good to be blessed.

 

[RitzLuce1]

The 2025-2026 season will tell use exactly what kind of coach Close really is

I just watched a podcast with her on youtube that was released yesterday and couldn't believe some of the things coming out her mouth. Says her team was so disappointed with what their NIL was going to be during the week of the final 4. Doesn't sound like she was providing strong leadership to her team during the biggest week of the season.

 

[RitzLuce1]

1. UConn has made the Sweet Sixteen every year since the 1993-94 season, that's 32 straight years.

2. Has made the Elite Eight in 29 of the last 32 years.

3. Advanced to the Final Four 22 of the last 32 years.

4. Appeared in 13 Championship games including their first National Title in the 94-95 season winning 12 of them.

5. The only loss in the Championship game was to SC in MN with the Huskies missing their starting center Dorka after she broke her wrist in the Final Four.

UConn's starting center was Olivia Nelson-Ododa in 2022.

 

[oldude]

OD, I sorta disagree with you (a first as I totally respect your insight). Geno coaches up tempo and transition game because he has the talent that can, and the players want to do that. But, maybe more importantly Geno has always been about defense, even if it means a lower scoring game. Geno once said that he doesn't play the game that the first team to 100 points wins. I think Geno is a "defense first" coach and relies on the recruited talents (and some coaching) to win offensively. It's good to be blessed.

OD, I sorta disagree with you (a first as I totally respect your insight). Geno coaches up tempo and transition game because he has the talent that can, and the players want to do that. But, maybe more importantly Geno has always been about defense, even if it means a lower scoring game. Geno once said that he doesn't play the game that the first team to 100 points wins. I think Geno is a "defense first" coach and relies on the recruited talents (and some coaching) to win offensively. It's good to be blessed.

Yes, once upon a time Geno was all about defense. Every game in the OBE was a war played in a phone booth. Tough defense is still part of UConn’s DNA. But Geno’s greatest ability is that he learns and evolves.

It really started with the Stewie years when he had 5 players on the court who could all shoot the 3. UConn spread the floor, ran their motion offense and pushed tempo on both offense and defense.

If I recall, Geno spent some time with Brad Stevens and the Celtics, learning the nuances of both the 4-out & 5-out offensive sets. Obviously, Geno needs to continue to recruit the kind of players who can execute his offense. This past year it all came together.

 

[SCGamecock]

I don't recall seeing much of any connection between SC and Serah Williams.

And if there was, I highly doubt she was our top target. SC needed a CENTER, not another forward. We got our center.

 

[SCGamecock]

You misunderstand me on this but I appreciate your accuracy and your loyalty. No, I believe she obviously is a coach with a gift for connecting with her player the gift that first manifests itself in her superior recruiting talents. She and Mulkey both. But the game she coaches is pretty one dimensional and it is the superior talent she recruits in that system than keeps her afloat near the top of the game. There isn't anyone with a knowledge of the game who would say she has a balanced offense with any emphasis on guard play. The dominant Big or 2 and she's a winner 'cuz it's what she knows. A health talented guard oriented team will carve her up when she doesn't have truly dominant bigs.

I'm done with this. I hate arguing on the Board. This is my happy place.

This is quite a verdict.

I think every coach looks better when they have “superior” talent. Even a great coach like Geno, who has had more than his fair share of #1 ranked recruits (including 3 on this past year’s team). This is a throwback to a common theme of the past season, with coach after coach discrediting Dawn because of her ability to recruit. I don’t see too many coaches turning down McDonald’s AAs just to prove that they could be a better coach without them. But I’d like to see it, for the “good of the game” lol

 

[GamecockFam]

To be fair, very few people would call Raven a “great guard.”

Does Diana Taurasi count?

On the cusp of another national title, a South Carolina star gets validation from a WNBA legend

Raven Johnson’s stats don’t jump off the page, but her impact for South Carolina hasn’t gone unnoticed by Diana Taurasi.

www.sbnation.com

 

[Bald Husky]

Uh.?? Yes. , all true.

I think I acknowledged the fact that Geno is the greatest coach that ever lived. That was not what my post was about. My response was to those few insinuating that Dawn is a crap coach who, particularly , can’t coach guards. And I only asserted that Dawn is the “third most accomplished” coach today.

Am I wrong?

This time I’m really out of the thread.

I know Dawn is a great recruiter, but not seeing a lot of SC games, I really don't know if she is a good gametime coach. From many games that I have seen, I'm not so sure, but as I already said, haven't seen enough to really make a correct observation.

 

[EricLA]

Glad this will be settled on the basketball floor. IMHO, and I said earlier, between what both teams lost to graduation, the portal, and what both teams are bringing in as freshmen, and from the portal, UConn did better.

SC lost Feagan, Hall, and PaoPao to graduation. They lost Fulwiley and Walker (I believe she has 1 year eligibility left) to the portal. 3 of them were starters. Fulwiley was 1st or 2nd off the bench and the 2nd leading scorer on the team behind Edwards. So they lost 4 out of their top 7 players...

UConn lost Bueckers, Chen, and Griffin to graduation, and Samuels to the portal. 2 starters and their best player/leader.

SC adds Makeer and McDowel, a pair of 6'1-2" wings, Latson (WCBB leading scorer last year), and Okot - a center who started for Mississippi State and averaged over 11 PPG last season.

(Did I miss any additions or subtractions for SC?)...

UConn adds Quinones, Fisher, and Malou-Malel as well as transfers Heckel and Williams.

@oldude had a thread on UConn winning the portal war. I agree with him. Also I'd argue that Quinones is at least as good, if not better, than Makeer, and Fisher and Gandy are at least equivalent of McDowel (not that they play the same position but my point is neither team is appreciably better in their recruiting class- pretty close IMHO).

It's the portal where UConn really finalized our "missing pieces". Williams was a brilliant addition and likely starts, and Heckel and Arnold will be an extraordinary 1-2 punch of PG's for the team.

Given that we walloped them twice last season, and I don't see where they out-maneuvered us in recruiting OR the portal, I will be very surprised if they beat us this season. I'm much more confident of our team than I was last season, and last season we had the incomparable Paige Bueckers.

Obviously SC fans feel really confident too. I'm sure they feel Latson is a huge addition and as the leading scorer last season should help lead them back to the top. They probably feel that Edwards is an AA candidate. Raven Johnson, Tessa Johnson, Watkins, Kitts, and Latson are maybe their starting 5?

I'm really looking forward to seeing how both teams stack up against each other, and how their benches help or hurt. I think our bench is the deepest and best in the nation, but we will see when the games are played.

I'm not a good enough analyst to say whether I think Geno will out coach Dawn or vice versa. I've observed in the past where I thought Geno missed the boat, and the same for Dawn. New season, different teams, different strengths and weaknesses from last year. Bottom line I like our chances.