The Big12 has reached a new 6 year media rights agreement with ESPN and Fox worth a total of $2.28B, an average of $380M per year

[Kolumbo]

The better brands in the Pac-12 won't be around at some point. The Big 12's advantage is that it has no teams that could move up to the SEC or B1G. The PAC does. The ACC does. The Big 12 doesn't have to worry about any more teams going to the SEC or B1G. That's the advantage of the Big 12 over the PAC and ACC.

The Big 12 also has the geographic advantage being much more centrally located and able to go East and West. I wouldn't write off Kansas and I'm probably wrong but it would be a good B1G add. If Oregaon/Washington/Stanford are serious contenders for the B1G, there is no reason for anyone to stick around the PAC 12-MW.

The Big 12 is a roller coaster. One day it's dead, the next it's the place to be. That's CR.

The Big 12 also has this: "The conference also likes the idea that the shorter six-year deal that runs through 2031 means that the Big 12 will be back in the market ahead of both the SEC, whose deal with ESPN goes through 2034, and the ACC, whose ESPN deal expires in 2036."

I really think something has to give in the ACC with even UCF making more than FSU and Miami. BCU football is floundering and its basketball, along with SU's, must be playing in the Colonial or Patriot or some sheet. The more instabiity right now, the better for us.

 

[CL82]

UCF will now be making more money than FSU and Miami.

Well, they are a national championship team, sort of…

 

[don356]

The Pac-12 has better brands and flagships; the Big 12 not so much. No Pac-12 school is going to the Big 12.

Better brand is a relative factor to what the situation is in their locale. The west coast time zone puts them at a disadvantage to exploit that in a lot of ways, but the other factor is the remaining schools really with the exception of Oregon have not been very good lately. Stanford has been in a 3 or 4 year slide which doesn't show signs of reversing. Football is king by far. Football tv dwarfs basketball tv, and I think the real question is if these big football conference deals are not going to take money away from basketball down the road. Something has to give. The adds for the Big 12 all were top 50 programs win wise in combined fball and bball putting them ahead or on par with a lot of other "p5" counterparts. I also think they made a shrewd hire in Yomark. Not likely an accident they announced this while the west coast was still asleep, and it smells like expansion is imminent with this deal breaking this early. I really wonder if SDSU isn't headed to the Big 12 now with this announcement so far ahead. Smells like a tv/network deal more and more was hatched.

Hoops & Helmets 2022: College Football & Basketball Combined Rankings 1-130

Hoops & Helmets 2022. Ranked from 1 to 130, which schools had the most – and least – success on both the football field and basketball court?

collegefootballnews.com

 

[Eavesdrop]

Big 12 fans should be happy. Unfortunately, a reasonable sense of happiness too often leads to made up narratives from that crowd. To be clear, the new Big 12's new media contract does not set up the conference to earn more per school than the ACC.

The AVERAGE media payout from the Big 12 will be about $31.7 million per school per year. The ACTUAL payout will be lower than $31.7 million (probably upper 20s) in fiscal year 2024-25 and escalate gradually each year. That is how all these media contracts work.

The ACC already earned about $27 million from media deals in fiscal year 2020-21. That was before Comcast added the ACCN. And the league's payouts from its non ACCN media deal with ESPN will have four years of gradually escalating payouts between now and FY 2024-25.

The ACC is quite obviously going to be making more than the Big 12 when this deal goes into effect.

 

[Slasher]

Big 12 fans should be happy. Unfortunately, a reasonable sense of happiness too often leads to made up narratives from that crowd. To be clear, the new Big 12's new media contract does not set up the conference to earn more per school than the ACC.

The AVERAGE media payout from the Big 12 will be about $31.7 million per school per year. The ACTUAL payout will be lower than $31.7 million (probably upper 20s) in fiscal year 2024-25 and escalate gradually each year. That is how all these media contracts work.

The ACC already earned about $27 million from media deals in fiscal year 2020-21. That was before Comcast added the ACCN. And the league's payouts from its non ACCN media deal with ESPN will have four years of gradually escalating payouts between now and FY 2024-25.

The ACC is quite obviously going to be making more than the Big 12 when this deal goes into effect.

I wouldn't bet on that. You have to remember the non-media money. NCAA tournament, bowl games, CFP monies. The ACC isn't getting more money because they have more teams. They just have more mouths to feed. If each P5 conference gets 66M (current deal) from the CFP that's 4.71M per ACC school and 5.5M for the Big 12. Plus they share with Notre Dame for some of the media deal and certainly for NCAA tournament credits which divides it 15 ways. I think it's likely to be a wash at best.

 

[billybud]

I think that it will take more than a few million bucks increase for some Big 12 programs to pull even with some programs in the ACC....

FSU with $121.9 million AD revenue, and with Clemson, UNC, Louisville, and Virginia all topping $100 million and GT and VT both topping $85 million...NC State at $78 million (private uni's like Syracuse, Wake, Duke, Miami are not in the data base).

UCF's $61 million, Houston's $67 million, Cincinnati's $62 million, WVU's $65 million....all need major augmentation to approach the $85-121 million mark. I don't see a $20 million a year increase to their AD revenue.

 

[Eavesdrop]

I wouldn't bet on that. You have to remember the non-media money. NCAA tournament, bowl games, CFP monies. The ACC isn't getting more money because they have more teams. They just have more mouths to feed. If each P5 conference gets 66M (current deal) from the CFP that's 4.71M per ACC school and 5.5M for the Big 12. Plus they share with Notre Dame for some of the media deal and certainly for NCAA tournament credits which divides it 15 ways. I think it's likely to be a wash at best.

Maybe. But projecting non-media money is difficult because so much of it is tied to performance. How many schools from a conference make the football playoff matters. How many games do conference teams win in the NCAA basketball tournament matters, etc. It's also impossible to currently know the effect of losing losing Oklahoma and Texas will have on Big 12 bowl tie ins and sponsorships.

We do know that the ACC will make (probably about $6 or $7 million) more per school more from just media money when this new deal begins in FY 2024-25.

 

[JeepCSC]

The B12 also lost their T3 rights to ESPN I think. That’s a few million for the bigger schools like Kansas.

 

[billybud]

Since the 2015 tourney, the ACC has been dragging in the units from the NCAA tournament....set the NCAA record for units earned back in 2015 and haven't looked back....racking in units every year............$36.5 million worth in 2022 (a ACC down year),....and, since it rolls for five years, the combined annual payouts aren't that trivial.

The addition of Houston may help the Big 12's earning of units....UCF has been dancing once in the last 14 seasons (and won 1 game)...Cincinnati was consistent in reaching the tournament through 2019...they will probably add units.

 

[CL82]

The B12 also lost their T3 rights to ESPN I think. That’s a few million for the bigger schools like Kansas.

Is it?

 

[JeepCSC]

It’s hard to make out exactly what the B12 was getting on tier 3 rights, because it was usually folded into the radio/advertising contracts the schools sign with Learfield/etc. But $5 million was a number usually thrown around. ESPN now is paying for that with the new contract it appears, so it’s baked in to the number whereas it wasn’t before.

 

[Slasher]

I think that it will take more than a few million bucks increase for some Big 12 programs to pull even with some programs in the ACC....

FSU with $121.9 million AD revenue, and with Clemson, UNC, Louisville, and Virginia all topping $100 million and GT and VT both topping $85 million...NC State at $78 million (private uni's like Syracuse, Wake, Duke, Miami are not in the data base).

UCF's $61 million, Houston's $67 million, Cincinnati's $62 million, WVU's $65 million....all need major augmentation to approach the $85-121 million mark. I don't see a $20 million a year increase to their AD revenue.

This doesn't make sense to me. If UC/UCF/Houston are spending 60M now, making no more than 10M a year, why can't they spend 100M a year when they make 50M? Am I missing something?

 

[billybud]

What are you missing?

They are not getting $50 million...they are getting $31.6 million...an increase of $20 million. They will have an extra $20 million but that doesn't magically hatch millions of dollars.

Over many years, they can build a donor base, a fan base, like the programs who have $100 million in revenue annually.

Houston, by the by, is one of the more heavily subsidized programs with student fees and ditect institutional support ...what might happen is that the institutional support might be able to be cut back some.

"Much of the reason Houston saw the jump it did in revenue, according to the report, is because of “direct institutional support.”

In fiscal year 2018, UH athletics received $22.4 million from the University, but that number in 2019 grew by nearly $12 million to $34.2 million.

With UH’s continued investment in athletics, these numbers can be expected to grow in 2020."

 

[Slasher]

What are you missing?

They are not getting $50 million...they are getting $31.6 million...an increase of $20 million. They will have an extra $20 million but that doesn't magically hatch millions of dollars.

Over many years, they can build a donor base, a fan base, like the programs who have $100 million in revenue annually.

Houston, by the by, is one of the more heavily subsidized programs with student fees and ditect institutional support ...what might happen is that the institutional support might be able to be cut back some.

"Much of the reason Houston saw the jump it did in revenue, according to the report, is because of “direct institutional support.”

In fiscal year 2018, UH athletics received $22.4 million from the University, but that number in 2019 grew by nearly $12 million to $34.2 million.

With UH’s continued investment in athletics, these numbers can be expected to grow in 2020."

You don't understand distribution vs media rights. The Big 12 will distribute around 50M starting in 2025-2026. Yes the Media amount is 31.6M. There's lots of other monies included. The 10M those teams are getting today is not all TV, the TV for the AAC is around 7M. The rest of it is just like all conference, bowls, ncaa tournament credits, playoff money, etc.

The point about institutional support is a valid one, instead of big subsidies those schools could CHOOSE to lower subsidies instead of using all the additional monies + the subsidies. But they wouldn't have to if they chose not to.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

According to the Monty Show the Big 12 would have a separate streaming package with Amazon that would take the media rights for each member, including newbies, past the $50 million mark.

 

[billybud]

Oh I do understand revenue distribution...as I posted in this thread, other sources like the NCAAT unit monies add up...

"Like its Power Five peers, the ACC derives virtually all revenue from football postseason, the NCAA men’s basketball tournament and television rights. For example, in 2020-21, television ($397.4 million), bowls ($109.4 million) and the NCAA tournament ($64.1 million) accounted for 98.7% of ACC revenue.

2021-22 was a season in which the Orange Bowl, the ACC’s contracted New Year’s Six postseason game, hosted a College Football Playoff semifinal. In those years, the ACC does not receive its Orange Bowl payout of approximately $25 million.

 

[Slasher]

Oh I do understand revenue distribution...as I posted in this thread, other sources like the NCAAT unit monies add up...

"Like its Power Five peers, the ACC derives virtually all revenue from football postseason, the NCAA men’s basketball tournament and television rights. For example, in 2020-21, television ($397.4 million), bowls ($109.4 million) and the NCAA tournament ($64.1 million) accounted for 98.7% of ACC revenue.

2021-22 was a season in which the Orange Bowl, the ACC’s contracted New Year’s Six postseason game, hosted a College Football Playoff semifinal. In those years, the ACC does not receive its Orange Bowl payout of approximately $25 million.

Then why are you debating they're getting around 50m?

 

[billybud]

I'm not....I am debating whether that UCF/Houston/Cincy will reach the $120 million that FSU has or the $100 million of other programs...

Kolumbo posted...."

I really think something has to give in the ACC with even UCF making more than FSU and Miami. BCU football is floundering and its basketball, along with SU's, must be playing in the Colonial or Patriot or some sheet. The more instabiity right now, the better for us.

 

[Slasher]

What are you missing?

They are not getting $50 million...they are getting $31.6 million...an increase of $20 million. They will have an extra $20 million but that doesn't magically hatch millions of dollars.

Is that not you? Was this your other personality speaking?

 

[Eavesdrop]

According to the Monty Show the Big 12 would have a separate streaming package with Amazon that would take the media rights for each member, including newbies, past the $50 million mark.

I watched the video. He principally contends the Big 12 is making a side deal with Amazon to stream the conference's tier three content. Couple big problems with that:

-We know the Big 12's deal with Disney and Fox will yield each conference member about an average of $31.7 million per year. So this alleged tier three Amazon deal would have to be worth an average of $18.3 million per school per year. That is utter nonsense.

-We also know the Sports Business Journal has reported that ESPN will control all Big 12 tier three rights as part of that deal. So the Big 12 apparently has nothing to sell Amazon directly.

From SBJ:

"I keep seeing one aspect of the Big 12 deal that is creating confusion among fans on social media. Historically, the Big 12 had what it called "Tier Three" rights, which are the rights schools retained and sold to local broadcasters. These are the rights, for example, that Texas used to create the Longhorn Network with ESPN. ESPN now controls all of those rights as part of its deal; there are no more institutional-controlled games and no more Tier Three rights."

My guess is he's confusing a potential overall conference distribution (media, plus CFP and bowl payouts, plus NCAA units, sponsorships, etc.) at some point down the road with just the media payouts. It's also possible that he may have heard that ESPN might sublicense some Big 12 content to Amazon.

 

[billybud]

Is that not you? Was this your other personality speaking?

Oh...The new Big 12 guys are getting 31.6 million...and yes...I don't see how that extra $20 million in media contract income will make them have $100 plus million....
.
I do not see the other payouts being double that of the media contract.

FSU's $120 million revenue is far more than the conference distribution.

But maybe Houston, in particular, can stanch the current $34 million subsidy hemmoraging.

 

[billybud]

Just like Texas and Oklahoma report $200 million in revenue...while others in the same conference do not report that number...there is more to total revenue than conference payout.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Kolumbo]

Just like Texas and Oklahoma report $200 million in revenue...while others in the same conference do not report that number...there is more to total revenue than conference payout.

I understand that some programs make a boatload more and I don't follow all the ins and outs of the financials. Maybe programs like FSU, Texas and Oklahoma make all those extra boatloads no matter what conference they are in, or maybe they don't. If they don't then maybe FSU and Clemson are happy to be bound to the ACC, but that's not what most people believe.

 

[billybud]

I understand that some programs make a boatload more and I don't follow all the ins and outs of the financials. Maybe programs like FSU, Texas and Oklahoma make all those extra boatloads no matter what conference they are in, or maybe they don't. If they don't then maybe FSU and Clemson are happy to be bound to the ACC, but that's not what most people believe.

Well...FSU and Clemson have always preferred the SEC...even when there was little money difference.

FSU guys felt sold out by the academicians 30 years ago when they pressed for the ACC over the SEC...the Tobacco Road cartel with the ex UNC athletic director as Commissioner has not been too friendly.

FSU and Clemson are football schools located in the heartb of SEC country...Tallahassee's city limits are 18 miles from the Georgia border.